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Wide Field 11-14mm Eyepiece

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#1 pregulla

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 05:04 AM

Hi All,

 

I am looking to buy my next eyepiece. Currently my EP lineup goes: 35mm Aero ED/ES82 30mm (still deciding between the two, ES82 is a very god performer but huge and heavy, Aero ED is very light and compact, decent performer and has wider TFoV), 24mm ES68, Clelestron 8-24mm zoom, 2" 2x GSO Barlow. 8" F/6 dob. 

 

I like the views around 12mm zoom setting and would like to get something wider and of higher quality for that range. ES68 24mm doesn't barlow well - it gets very finicky on eye placement. So I thought about ES82 11mm, the price seems most reasonable for wide field eyepieces and some claim it to be the best of 1.25" in ES82 line. I wouldn't mind having 70 degrees instead of 82, but there is nothing available that I am aware of in this price/performance range. 11mm also seems to fit well if I decide to fill in the gap from 24mm with 16mm later (ES68 or Nirvana).

Or getting ES 14mm now, then it will fill the spot 16mm would and buy something in the 9-10mm range later.

I have also thought about buying telecentric barlow or panoptic barlow interface to allow use with Aero ED (that vignets badly with conventional barlow) and ES68.

 

Any suggestions?

Thanks.


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#2 Starman47

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 07:00 AM

I love my 11mm and 14mm ES 82s



#3 25585

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 07:08 AM

Baader Morpheus 12.5 and 14mm with 76° AFOV, and Orion LHD 80° 14mm https://www.telescop...?ensembleId=268 worthy considerations.


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#4 mac57

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 07:25 AM

I like my ES 82 11mm, and it's probably my most-used ep.  You may try to find an old original Nagler used.  They go for $100 to $150 generally, and can still out-perform an ES ep IMO.  


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#5 Mr. Mike

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 07:48 AM

I like my ES 82 11mm, and it's probably my most-used ep.  You may try to find an old original Nagler used.  They go for $100 to $150 generally, and can still out-perform an ES ep IMO.  

A used Nagler is a good choice too, yes.  They come up for sale here and there but don’t last long at all once listed.  A used Pentax XW 10mm is another good option and would be about the same price but they also don’t last long.  Overall, it’s hard to beat the ES 82s for the price though.  They really are that well received and can hold their own against most of the big boys and they do it for like half the cost.


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#6 pregulla

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:28 AM

A used Nagler is a good choice too, yes.  They come up for sale here and there but don’t last long at all once listed.  A used Pentax XW 10mm is another good option and would be about the same price but they also don’t last long.  Overall, it’s hard to beat the ES 82s for the price though.  They really are that well received and can hold their own against most of the big boys and they do it for like half the cost.

Indeed seems like ES82 hard to beat for the price. All other options seem to be quite more expensive, even used 11mm T1 sells for $150-200 after a quick look at classifieds.

I wonder why 11mm seems to be less common than other focal lengths though. I never seen someone mention it until I started looking for one.


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#7 aeajr

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:31 AM

You can't go wrong with the ES 82 line.  I have the 14, 8.8 and 6.7.

 

If you want a comparable eyepiece at a lower price, consider the Meade 5000 UWA 82 degree.  But they are heavier as they have this big twist up eyecup.   I have the 20 mm and the 5.5.   Excellent, just bigger and heavier, but lower in cost. 



#8 gnowellsct

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 10:36 AM

Xw 14 unless you're under f/5. And they come up on astromart.

#9 Mr. Mike

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:41 AM

Indeed seems like ES82 hard to beat for the price. All other options seem to be quite more expensive, even used 11mm T1 sells for $150-200 after a quick look at classifieds.

I wonder why 11mm seems to be less common than other focal lengths though. I never seen someone mention it until I started looking for one.

I’d stay away from the T1 Naglers anyways.  The T6 has better eye relief, contrast and probably everything else.  They’re a little more money but if you are Nagler hunting then the T6 is the series want! 

 

And yes, the ES 82s are like the Baader Morpheus line: they are really, really good and compare favorably to other eyepieces that cost quite a bit more.  Period! :)



#10 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:53 AM

I’d stay away from the T1 Naglers anyways.  The T6 has better eye relief, contrast and probably everything else.  They’re a little more money but if you are Nagler hunting then the T6 is the series want! 

 

And yes, the ES 82s are like the Baader Morpheus line: they are really, really good and compare favorably to other eyepieces that cost quite a bit more.  Period! smile.gif

 

The T2 Naglers are very good eyepieces, I think sharper than the ES's in a fast scope.  And they have a little more eye relief than the T-6's which have more eye relief than the ES's.  They are relatively large and depending on their age, can have older coating technology.  Until recently my first string eyepiece in this range was a 12mm Type 2 of recent vintage.  The 13mm Ethos has replaced it but the 12mm Type 2 was an excellent eyepiece.

 

Jon


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#11 Mr. Mike

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:31 PM

The T2 Naglers are very good eyepieces, I think sharper than the ES's in a fast scope.  And they have a little more eye relief than the T-6's.  They are relatively large and depending on their age, can have older coating technology.  Until recently my first string eyepiece in this range was a 12mm Type 2 of recent vintage.  The 13mm Ethos has replaced it but the 12mm Type 2 was an excellent eyepiece.

 

Jon

Jon, are the T2s better than the T1? That’s what I had read for the most part.  So if shopping used for Naglers, the T2 and up are formidable choices, right?  



#12 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:40 PM

Jon, are the T2s better than the T1? That’s what I had read for the most part.  So if shopping used for Naglers, the T2 and up are formidable choices, right?  

 

In general, I would say yes, the T-2s were modified and had much reduced "spherical aberration of the exit pupil."  This results in a tendency towards blackouts.  In the shorter focal lengths, the 4.8mm and the 7mm, in my experience, this is not an issue because the exit pupil is quite small.  

 

To my eye, the 7mm T-1 is the most "T-6" like of all the early Naglers.  I love the 4.8mm, I call it the Nagler Ortho because of it's short eye relief.  

 

I think the 12mm type 2 could be a good fit in this situation but a used one will cost as much as a new ES 11mm though the type 2 will have somewhat more eye relief.  For a number of years, the 12mm, 16mm and 20mm type 2s were my first string eyepieces but I bought them at a time when there really were no other alternatives for fast scopes.

 

Jon


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#13 aeajr

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 12:58 PM

Hi All,

 

I am looking to buy my next eyepiece. Currently my EP lineup goes: 35mm Aero ED/ES82 30mm (still deciding between the two, ES82 is a very god performer but huge and heavy, Aero ED is very light and compact, decent performer and has wider TFoV), 24mm ES68, Clelestron 8-24mm zoom, 2" 2x GSO Barlow. 8" F/6 dob. 

 

I like the views around 12mm zoom setting and would like to get something wider and of higher quality for that range. ES68 24mm doesn't barlow well - it gets very finicky on eye placement. So I thought about ES82 11mm, the price seems most reasonable for wide field eyepieces and some claim it to be the best of 1.25" in ES82 line. I wouldn't mind having 70 degrees instead of 82, but there is nothing available that I am aware of in this price/performance range. 11mm also seems to fit well if I decide to fill in the gap from 24mm with 16mm later (ES68 or Nirvana).

Or getting ES 14mm now, then it will fill the spot 16mm would and buy something in the 9-10mm range later.

I have also thought about buying telecentric barlow or panoptic barlow interface to allow use with Aero ED (that vignets badly with conventional barlow) and ES68.

 

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

For WIW, this is my eyepiece line up for my 8" Orion XT8i Dob.  I have 15 other eyepieces, but these are the ones I consider my primary active eyepieces. 

 

38 mm/70  Agena Astro SWA

20 mm/82  Meade 82 (An absolute steal at the price)

14 mm/82  ES 82

8.8 mm/82 ES 82

6.7 mm/82 ES 82

5.5 mm/82 Meade 82.  (ES doesn't have one in this FL)

GSO 2" 1.5X/2X ED Barlow

GSO 1.25" 2.5X APO Barlow

 

Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom - my most used eyepiece, usually combined with the 1.5X GSO Barlow for 75-225X

 

If I were to replace the Agena Astro SWA it would likely be with an ES 68 40 mm to max out the FOV. 



#14 CeleNoptic

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 01:41 PM

Hi All,

 

I am looking to buy my next eyepiece. Currently my EP lineup goes: 35mm Aero ED/ES82 30mm (still deciding between the two, ES82 is a very god performer but huge and heavy, Aero ED is very light and compact, decent performer and has wider TFoV), 24mm ES68, Clelestron 8-24mm zoom, 2" 2x GSO Barlow. 8" F/6 dob. 

 

I like the views around 12mm zoom setting and would like to get something wider and of higher quality for that range. ES68 24mm doesn't barlow well - it gets very finicky on eye placement. So I thought about ES82 11mm, the price seems most reasonable for wide field eyepieces and some claim it to be the best of 1.25" in ES82 line. I wouldn't mind having 70 degrees instead of 82, but there is nothing available that I am aware of in this price/performance range. 11mm also seems to fit well if I decide to fill in the gap from 24mm with 16mm later (ES68 or Nirvana).

Or getting ES 14mm now, then it will fill the spot 16mm would and buy something in the 9-10mm range later.

I have also thought about buying telecentric barlow or panoptic barlow interface to allow use with Aero ED (that vignets badly with conventional barlow) and ES68.

 

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

 

For f/6 Dob the 14mm ES82 won't be the best choice, IMO. You may need the 16mm ES68 or NT5 for faint fuzzies and 11mm ES82 for brighter DSOs. If you still decide on the 14mm ES82, than the next should be the 8.8mm ES82 or 9mm Baader Morpheus, IMO. A telecentric Barlow like ES Focal Extender should be a good match for ultrawide angle EPs (no vignetting and spherical aberration - good for eye positioning), it'll give additional (virtual) EPs of 12mm (with 24ES68), 8mm (with 16mm EP) and 5.5mm (with 11ES82), a good all around set for 8" f/6 Dob.



#15 25585

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 02:39 PM

Morpheus and XW if you want better eye relief.



#16 SeattleScott

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 02:46 PM

The problem with the early Naglers is the coatings. I briefly had a 9T1. With a 4” refractor in light pollution M37 was an adverted vision target. When I put in my 8LVW it was a direct vision target. Note the lvw is higher magnification and the series is not known for great light transmission, yet the view was just enough brighter to make M37 direct vision. So I sold the 9T1 and got a Meade 8.8. I still have the 7T1. Really sharp and I use it more for lunar/planetary where transmission isn’t a problem. But yeah ER is tight. 10mm eye relief my a**.

The type 2 is supposed to be better for avoiding blackouts and maybe have a little better coatings but still lower transmission than modern eyepieces.

Scott
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#17 Tank

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 03:23 PM

12 es 92 awesome pricey my choice

11 es 82 great value EP

12 Delos is awesome
13 Ethos is awesome

12.5 Doctor I hear is good 😀

14 es 100 geart value on used market

11t1 awesome but older coatings
12t2 is awesome too older coatings

11t6 Nagler great choice also

Many choices
All depends on budget preference
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#18 pregulla

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 03:33 PM

For WIW, this is my eyepiece line up for my 8" Orion XT8i Dob.  I have 15 other eyepieces, but these are the ones I consider my primary active eyepieces. 

 

38 mm/70  Agena Astro SWA

20 mm/82  Meade 82 (An absolute steal at the price)

14 mm/82  ES 82

8.8 mm/82 ES 82

6.7 mm/82 ES 82

5.5 mm/82 Meade 82.  (ES doesn't have one in this FL)

GSO 2" 1.5X/2X ED Barlow

GSO 1.25" 2.5X APO Barlow

 

Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom - my most used eyepiece, usually combined with the 1.5X GSO Barlow for 75-225X

 

If I were to replace the Agena Astro SWA it would likely be with an ES 68 40 mm to max out the FOV. 

I love the zoom, but I like wide filed views too. The Baader is appealing, but I decided against it for now. I'll get the ~11mm to have another data point and work from there.

 

Agena SWA 38mm and ES68 40mm basically have the same TFoV. One has fields stop of 45.7mm and the other - 45.5mm. You may consider Aero ED, the 35mm has a little narrower FoV (44.5mm field stop) but in a very light package - 350g (12oz). It is also better corrected than Agena SWA and has a flat field (as far as I can tell). 40mm will give you maximum FoV with 46mm field stop, but is rather hard to come buy and is larger and heavier (500g).

 

 

Morpheus and XW if you want better eye relief.

I don't wear glasses. I did find 10mm plossl to be a little bit too tight, but I believe ES82 is better in that department smile.gif. I keep reading good stuff about Morpheus and XW, but they are rather pricey at 2x the cost of ES82 (new). The Morpheus is a little more reasonable used, but how much more beneficial would it be at F/6 and for someone who doesn't wear glasses?



#19 aeajr

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 04:08 PM

I love the zoom, but I like wide filed views too. The Baader is appealing, but I decided against it for now. I'll get the ~11mm to have another data point and work from there.

 

snip...

Since I have a choice of single FL wide view or the BHZ I can choose whichever suits me at the time.   I love the wide views but the zoom is just so convenient and the BHZ has very very good optics.

 

Fill out your ES 82s, but try to find someone who has a BHZ so you can try it out.

 

I would not want to give up either.

 

I will admit that when I use an LX200 14"/3556 FL at the local observatory I tend to stay with the wide view eyepieces over the zoom because the mag gets high fast and the FOV gets narrow fast.   But in the Dob the zoom gets all the sky time above 75X.



#20 pregulla

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 04:27 PM

Fill out your ES 82s, but try to find someone who has a BHZ so you can try it out.

I wish I could try BHZ or Leica or Zeiss, SW Hyperflex would be nice too, but I feel like I am the only zoom user in the county laugh.gif. The star parties organized by local astronomical society are mostly for people not having a telescope. Only a handful of people bring their own and I have only seen a zoom eyepiece once, Nagler zoom. Next time I will bring the Celestron zoom and give it some publicity wink.gif


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#21 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 04:54 PM

The problem with the early Naglers is the coatings. I briefly had a 9T1. With a 4” refractor in light pollution M37 was an adverted vision target. When I put in my 8LVW it was a direct vision target. Note the lvw is higher magnification and the series is not known for great light transmission, yet the view was just enough brighter to make M37 direct vision. So I sold the 9T1 and got a Meade 8.8. I still have the 7T1. Really sharp and I use it more for lunar/planetary where transmission isn’t a problem. But yeah ER is tight. 10mm eye relief my a**.

The type 2 is supposed to be better for avoiding blackouts and maybe have a little better coatings but still lower transmission than modern eyepieces.

Scott

 

The first Naglers were produced nearly 40 years ago.  An early eyepiece will have older style coatings.  But the type 2s were produced for a long time and the coating were upgraded on a continuous basis.  My 12mm type two was one of the last produced and had very good coatings.  I never really liked the 9mm Type 1, the few opportunities had to use one, it didn't get it.  

 

In the range of interest here, 11-14mm, i have the 11mm Type 6 and the 13mm Ethos.  Both are excellent eyepieces but even used quite expensive. 

 

One thing though is that ES is overly optimistic regarding eye relief.  They claim 15mm for the eye relief.  For an 82 degree eyepiece, that requires a 26mm eye lens, the ES 11mm has 17mm eye lens and it's recessed.  A 17mm eye lens translates to 9.8 mm of eye relief.. 

 

The type 6 Naglers have an 18.5mm eye lens that is not recessed. That translates to 10.6mm eye relief, reasonably close to the 12mm spec'd.

 

Jon


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#22 Mr. Mike

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 05:40 PM

The first Naglers were produced nearly 40 years ago.  An early eyepiece will have older style coatings.  But the type 2s were produced for a long time and the coating were upgraded on a continuous basis.  My 12mm type two was one of the last produced and had very good coatings.  I never really liked the 9mm Type 1, the few opportunities had to use one, it didn't get it.  

 

In the range of interest here, 11-14mm, i have the 11mm Type 6 and the 13mm Ethos.  Both are excellent eyepieces but even used quite expensive. 

 

One thing though is that ES is overly optimistic regarding eye relief.  They claim 15mm for the eye relief.  For an 82 degree eyepiece, that requires a 26mm eye lens, the ES 11mm has 17mm eye lens and it's recessed.  A 17mm eye lens translates to 9.8 mm of eye relief.. 

 

The type 6 Naglers have an 18.5mm eye lens that is not recessed. That translates to 10.6mm eye relief, reasonably close to the 12mm spec'd.

 

Jon

For better eye relief and just as good performance overall, this is where the Baader Morpheus 76 degree EPs becomes a  very interesting choice.  The CN review among others has really kicked up my interest in the Baaders as a very viable option in the this FL range and FOV range.  

 

You did the CN review, didnt you? :)


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#23 pregulla

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 05:48 PM

One thing though is that ES is overly optimistic regarding eye relief.  They claim 15mm for the eye relief.  For an 82 degree eyepiece, that requires a 26mm eye lens, the ES 11mm has 17mm eye lens and it's recessed.  A 17mm eye lens translates to 9.8 mm of eye relief..

That's interesting. Ernest measured 17.5mm eye lens, 83 degrees AFoV and 15mm eye relief (11mm from folded eye cup). From the reviews it does sound rather tight. So 4mm recessed lens and 10mm ER sounds about right. That might explain why it's not as popular as the rest of ES82 line.



#24 rkelley8493

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 07:36 PM

The 12mm ES 92º is the best eyepiece I've ever used. The 14mm 100º is really good too. Agena Astro has a Closeout sale on the 14. TeleVue Type 4's are really good too. I saw a 12mm T4 in Excellent Condition on the classifieds on Astromart, link below.

 

https://astromart.co...ler-type-4-12mm


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#25 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 07:43 PM

That's interesting. Ernest measured 17.5mm eye lens, 83 degrees AFoV and 15mm eye relief (11mm from folded eye cup). From the reviews it does sound rather tight. So 4mm recessed lens and 10mm ER sounds about right. That might explain why it's not as popular as the rest of ES82 line.

 

I think they are all like that... 

 

The trigonometry says that for an 17.5mm eye lens and a 83 degree AFoV, the eye relief as measured from the edge of the eye lens is 9.9mm.  It's a simple triangle.  The base is the diameter of the eye lens, the height is the eye relief and the included angle is the AFoV.  

 

Jon




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