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Takahashi CN-212 damaged during shipping

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#1 hemant

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 08:15 PM

Hello all,

 

I recently purchased a used Takahashi CN-212. The seller confirmed that he will ship insured. When I received the telescope it was broken where the finder attaches to the OTA. My guess is that there was an impact which the finder took and ended up pushing the aluminum casting in. I don't believe the packaging was sufficient. The OTA was wrapped in a bubble wrap and there wasn't much room around the OTA. No foam ether - just a couple of cardboard sheets. I found a 2 inch piece of aluminum inside the OTA. I removed the broken piece and inspected the primary. At first glance, it looks okay but I will have to look closer. I am also not sure if there is any damage to the lining inside the OTA.

 

Here is what the damage looks liker:

20190219 111116
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20190318 201204

 

 

To be able to claim insurance, I need to be able to provide a repair estimate or somehow put a value behind the damage. Since CN-212 is not being manufactured anymore, repairing may not be an option. I am discussing this with Takahashi. I guess one option would be to buy another used OTA and sell this one off as is - if someone is willing to use the telescope without the finder. Given that this telescope sells for around USD 2800 - USD 3200 in excellent condition, any idea on how much would be worth broken?

 

One more option would be to ask for full refund and return shipping. Not sure if that will be the best option given the overhead of shipping costs. This telescope was shipped from outside the US.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Regards

Hemant

 

 

 


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#2 Tyson M

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 08:25 PM

Ouch this breaks my heart just looking at that.  And no this does not look sufficiently packed, especially for a $2800-$3200 used.

 

My country limits insurance to $1000 CAD for international shipments.  If you paid paypal using "pay for goods and servincing option" now is the time to collect your refund and tell the seller you will send it back to them, in a larger box with a lot more packing.

 

Consider UPS to pack it if you don't think you can.  That finder should never have been attached either, but it looks like it would have been next to impossible to unscrew the two screws so close to the primary and down in he tube.   It should have been in a small box filled with foam, ideally.

 

Is the primary chipped on the edge (looks that way on the first pic)?


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#3 deepwoods1

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 08:26 PM

Typically, your insured value is what you paid. Your not going to be able to another donor scope for the parts. I would be asking for a full refund, as the former owner clearly didn't pack it well at all. Good luck!



#4 hemant

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 08:41 PM

Ouch this breaks my heart just looking at that.  And no this does not look sufficiently packed, especially for a $2800-$3200 used.

 

My country limits insurance to $1000 CAD for international shipments.  If you paid paypal using "pay for goods and servincing option" now is the time to collect your refund and tell the seller you will send it back to them, in a larger box with a lot more packing.

 

Consider UPS to pack it if you don't think you can.  That finder should never have been attached either, but it looks like it would have been next to impossible to unscrew the two screws so close to the primary and down in he tube.   It should have been in a small box filled with foam, ideally.

 

Is the primary chipped on the edge (looks that way on the first pic)?

Oh. Thanks a lot for pointing that damage out. What you see in that picture is the cell but I had completely missed out on that. Thank you very much for pointing it out. I will take a closer look.

 

I have filed a case with paypal. They asked me to get a repair estimate. I have asked Takahashi for that. If it is not repairable ( which I think would be the case), I guess return will be the only option. Thanks a lot again.


Edited by hemant, 18 March 2019 - 08:41 PM.

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#5 hemant

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 08:42 PM

Typically, your insured value is what you paid. Your not going to be able to another donor scope for the parts. I would be asking for a full refund, as the former owner clearly didn't pack it well at all. Good luck!

That is good to know. Thanks a lot. I have a case with paypal ongoing. Let's see where that goes.



#6 Tyson M

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 08:59 PM

The seller can sell that scope or optics as long as the primary isnt scratched up at all. The way I see it, an atm or resourceful person can fix that.

 

Either a 3D printer might be able to assist with a black plastic part- Half circle and filed down.  Or easier yet, black thin thickness foam shoved in the hole.

 

Or take the optics and spider out and make a new tube from sonotube ,or open skeleton truss configuration with a black shroud. 

 

Not sure I would pay more than $1000 US for that the way it is, assuming the primary is still perfect.


Edited by Tyson M, 18 March 2019 - 09:19 PM.


#7 Kunama

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 09:15 PM

Sad to see this happen to a nice scope.....

 

The original JB Weld will fix that in a jiffy.  Then relocate the finder to a more solid part of the casting.

Of have a machine shop replicate the part by rolling a ring out of  4" x 1/4" aluminium flat bar and then turn on a lathe to fit.....

 

If this scope was in Australia I would be making an offer for it as is....


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#8 Colin exraaf

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:36 AM

I'm crying with you .... bawling.gif that is so disappointing ... !!



#9 M3Pilot

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 10:03 AM

Wow!  That's really awful!  And frankly a silly error on the part of whomever "packed" it.

 

While it seems unlikely that the optics could have come through unscathed I would think that it could be repaired, especially if you have all the "bits".  A skilled welder should be able to tig that up and it could be repainted.  JB Weld might work okay functionally but I think the scope deserves a full rescue if the optics are salvageable.

 

Best of luck!

 

Stuart



#10 Arief Muslim

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 10:47 AM

This breaks my heart. Could you tell us who you bought it from so we can avoid any future transactions with the person?
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#11 hemant

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:39 PM

Sad to see this happen to a nice scope.....

 

The original JB Weld will fix that in a jiffy.  Then relocate the finder to a more solid part of the casting.

Of have a machine shop replicate the part by rolling a ring out of  4" x 1/4" aluminium flat bar and then turn on a lathe to fit.....

 

If this scope was in Australia I would be making an offer for it as is..

Yeah. I was looking forward to owning this scope. Hope Paypal and Takahashi will can find a way out.



#12 hemant

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:41 PM

This breaks my heart. Could you tell us who you bought it from so we can avoid any future transactions with the person?

I wish I could but I did not buy on cn. Moreover, I guess I will have to wait to see how the overall situation is handled before I can provide review.


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#13 hemant

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:45 PM

Wow!  That's really awful!  And frankly a silly error on the part of whomever "packed" it.

 

While it seems unlikely that the optics could have come through unscathed I would think that it could be repaired, especially if you have all the "bits".  A skilled welder should be able to tig that up and it could be repainted.  JB Weld might work okay functionally but I think the scope deserves a full rescue if the optics are salvageable.

 

Best of luck!

 

Stuart

Thanks a lot. I guess what made it worse was that the shipping label was on the bottom of the box. This probably meant that the box traveled most of its journey upside down with the finder being very close to the bottom of the box.



#14 hemant

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:46 PM

I'm crying with you .... bawling.gif that is so disappointing ... !!

Yup. Thanks. Unwrapping that beauty was so painful.



#15 CHASLX200

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 06:12 AM

I would get a refund. But i would still buy the scope for a low price as long as the optics are fine.  Maybe some metal could be glued or welded over the hole and a finder can still be used.



#16 vkhastro1

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 09:35 AM

Sorry to hear of the shipping damage.

 

IMO the telescope packing was totally inadequate.

I have shipped many OTAs to Canada/USA including several C11s and C8s.

The purchaser is paying the shipping/insurance so I always insist on double boxing - the OTA is first bubblewrapped (at least 2 inches) and then surrounded by stuffing as much paper as possible between the bubbled wrapped OTA and the cardboard of the inner shipping box. The inner shipping box is placed in a larger 2nd cardboard box with at least a 2"-3" 

complete space around the inner box. Tons of crumpled paper is packed between the inner OTA shipping box and the 2nd outer shipping box. It sometimes takes me an hour or more to complete the entire process. I always photograph the entire 

packing process in case there is an insurance claim. The purchaser almost always complements my packing. I even had one buyer say the package could have survived a trip to the moon.

 

Best wishes on a speedy resolution to your PayPal insurance claim.


Edited by vkhastro1, 21 March 2019 - 05:11 PM.

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#17 TG

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 11:25 AM

There are two different ways to be compensated for the OP: carrier insurance and PayPal. Given the poor state of packaging, I'd go straight to PayPal. I addition, with carrier insurance, the *shipper* is insured, not the receiver. So any claims have to be made by the seller. In my case, with a well packed OTA damaged by UPS, it took a full year before they paid up.

#18 Reid W

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 02:07 PM

I know this is exasperating for Hemant; but with the low likelyhood of finding another tube, it can be repaired rather easily.

 

Previously, Stuart suggested JB Weld.  That would the solution.  Pull the back, remove the finder from the flake, mix a pot of The JB and set the flake.  The external crack line would almost be invisible.  Once cured, you could apply an inner layer of material- carbon fiber/fiberglass- or carbon fiber strands mixed in with the JB on the inside.  Once cured, re-attach the finder.  

 

If seller will concede to a discount 25-30% of what was paid- that would be ideal.

 

The rarity of the 212 causes the compromise.  If this was an available tube- then it's returned.  Not the case here though.


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#19 M3Pilot

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 04:23 PM

Actually I suggested that I would, ideally find a skilled tig welder who can handle cast aluminum, weld it up solid and repaint.  The JB Weld route may have another advantage though - the heat from the welder might damage more of the interior coating that you would then need to address.

 

Personally I would first investigate welding as it should be a truly permanent fix and potentially seamless if you wanted to get anal about matching paint and surface texture.  On the other hand that's easy for me to say as I already know guys that can do this type of work (I have the necessary equipment myself but not the skills).

 

My fingers are crossed for you that the optics are okay and you have the necessary bits to re-attach.  That will at least give you more options to be made whole.

 

Very best of luck!



#20 Tyson M

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 05:02 PM

The key and unknown issue here is if the secondary and primary are scratch free, which seems unlikely as he found a metal piece free to move inside the tube. 

 

If the mirror are scratch free, and can be repaired with JB weld, and a 25-30% discount, I'd keep the scope.


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#21 rcg

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 10:53 PM

is the back similar to the Tak 210 back, what did Tak say.



#22 TxStars

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 11:54 PM

For that casting to break it had to have been dropped from fairly high up.

From the photos you posted the original foam and outer box and it's foam are missing..

 

The CN 212's originally came double boxed from Takahashi Japan and sent to the customers in the same boxes.

Also the Finders are factory mounted and used as a handle just like the U 180 and 210's..

I think the rear casting on the CN 212 is the same one used on the U 210, you could check with Tak USA about this.


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#23 waso29

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 11:55 PM

I wish I could but I did not buy on cn. Moreover, I guess I will have to wait to see how the overall situation is handled before I can provide review.

what made you decide to buy used scope overseas, since TNR has used CN212 at a very good price.

https://www.landseas...n-212-used.html

 

at which site, does the seller have good ratings? 

strange, don't see visible damage to the outer shipper carton...



#24 hemant

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 12:26 AM

is the back similar to the Tak 210 back, what did Tak say.

Takahashi said that they do not have parts in stock in the US. They do not have anything that would act as a replacement. They are checking with Japan to see if they can find the casting to make the replacement back.



#25 hemant

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 12:32 AM

what made you decide to buy used scope overseas, since TNR has used CN212 at a very good price.

https://www.landseas...n-212-used.html

 

at which site, does the seller have good ratings? 

strange, don't see visible damage to the outer shipper carton...

Bought it on am. The seller has good ratings. The one available at land sea and sky did not have newtonian parts and my primary use is Newtonian. The rarity of the scope made me take the decision of getting it from outside the US. Lesson learnt I guess. My guess is that the finder was at the bottom with not much padding left between finder and the box to absorb any impact. If someone was to drop the box or even keep it without being gentle, the finder would have taken all the impact. I guess this is what happened - but hard to say for sure.




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