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iOptron iPolar

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#1 moligpy

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 09:51 PM

It seems iOptron are rolling out their new electric polar scope called iOptron iPolar, and someone in China are already tested this new gadget:

http://bbs.imufu.cn/...781073-1-1.html


Edited by alphatripleplus, 18 March 2019 - 10:08 PM.

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#2 petert913

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 10:43 PM

If only I could read Chinese !



#3 Jim Waters

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:15 AM

A QHY PoleMaster want-to-be...?



#4 Astronomy4You

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:08 AM

A QHY PoleMaster want-to-be...?


Based on the broken english Google Translate gave me, I think you're right.

#5 suvowner

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:16 AM

it is interesting. 

 

for the cem60 it integrates completely inside the mount, so you can use the covers and it will fit into the case without removing the pole master 

 

it seems to indicate it works even when you can't see polaris and doesn't require manually picking stars 


Edited by suvowner, 19 March 2019 - 02:18 AM.

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#6 HxPI

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:39 AM

I wonder if it's possible to disconnect and use the USB2 port on the back of the CEM60 mount for the iPolar scope? I never intend on using the USB2 hub on the mount. I removed the polar scope and ran two USB3 cables through the mount so the attachment for the extra USB2 port for the iPolar scope can't be installed. I could just run the additional USB2 cable from the iPolar scope directly out the back with the other USB3 cables. The cable hanging off the side of the PoleMaster has never been something I liked and risks getting snagged during mount rotation. Having the iPolar scope cable go through the mount is very appealing.

 

Now the question is whether it's worth it to upgrade to this or use my already working very well PoleMaster. Is the iPolar scope really better than the PoleMaster?  Interested in seeing more hands on demonstrations before pulling the trigger.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Ciao,

Mel


Edited by HxPI, 19 March 2019 - 09:21 AM.


#7 HxPI

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:41 AM

it is interesting. 

 

for the cem60 it integrates completely inside the mount, so you can use the covers and it will fit into the case without removing the pole master 

 

it seems to indicate it works even when you can't see polaris and doesn't require manually picking stars 

I like these features very much! It seems iOptron offers new products and improved features at a much faster pace than other manufacturers, and many for the better. I appreciate the innovative effort, considering cost constraints and limited market.


Edited by HxPI, 19 March 2019 - 07:50 AM.

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#8 OldManSky

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:53 AM

If only I could read Chinese !

Google Translate is your friend :)

It works pretty well on that page, except it thinks iOptron iPolar is "Ayton electrode"...


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#9 moligpy

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 03:48 AM

It seems iOptron listed iPolar in their website:

https://www.ioptron....duct-p/3339.htm



#10 Skymind

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:37 AM

I read the first light review, looks like very easy to use. Cool.



#11 f29pc

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 11:08 AM

I got to use it testing the CEM40. The mount came to me with no documentation or instructions. It took me a little while to figure it out just by trial and error. Once I got it, it's amazing!! The next two nights I was polar aligned (very accurate too) in less than 2 minutes.. I think it's the other way around..... The QHY Polemaster is an iPole want to be!!!! (Ive used both)........


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#12 suvowner

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 01:36 PM

I got to use it testing the CEM40. The mount came to me with no documentation or instructions. It took me a little while to figure it out just by trial and error. Once I got it, it's amazing!! The next two nights I was polar aligned (very accurate too) in less than 2 minutes.. I think it's the other way around..... The QHY Polemaster is an iPole want to be!!!! (Ive used both)........

dang you. I may have a pole master for sale in the classified's pretty soon. the cem60 internal option is very attractive. 



#13 DuncanM

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 02:00 PM

Here's the manual:

 

http://www.ioptron.c...ationManual.pdf

 

I mus admit, that I'm a bit skeptical about the accuracy, given it's wide FoV.



#14 cloudywest

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 05:43 PM

Here's the manual:

 

http://www.ioptron.c...ationManual.pdf

 

I mus admit, that I'm a bit skeptical about the accuracy, given it's wide FoV.

When adjusting the pole and it close to the rotating center, the screen automatically zoom in perhaps 10X. 



#15 f29pc

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 06:19 PM

When adjusting the pole and it close to the rotating center, the screen automatically zoom in perhaps 10X. 

It Does!! Here is a screen shot.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20190312_200248 (2).jpg

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#16 johnsoda

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 07:47 PM

Looking at the manual, it appears that the general idea is that you rotate in RA to calibrate the unit.  I assume that means to quantify the cone error. After that, you don’t have to rotate to use the device since it uses this calibration info, plate solves, then determines the PA error and what adjustments are needed.  Therefore, any results are dependent on the calibration being good and can be no better than the calibration error.  Also, it seems a bit disingenuous to say that you don’t need to be able to see Polaris. It seems that if the red dot is the true pole, given the field of view of the device, Polaris would be in the field of view.  I guess technically Polaris isn’t needed, but, as I wrote, it seems disingenuous. Am I missing something?  Most people who say their telescope can’t see Polaris really mean it can’t see the celestial North Pole. 

 

One thing I don’t like about this approach is that if the unit is jarred out of place, and it won’t take much, any results after that are wrong, and it won’t be apparent. Remember, 30 arcseconds is a basketball diameter at a mile.  With SharpCap PA and PoleMaster, I think there’s less likelihood of not seeing that there’s an issue, since you are effectively determining the cone error every time you use them. 

 

Also, on any of these devices and software, such as SharpCap, PoleMaster, or this, you shouldn’t take what the device/software gives you as an error as truth. You need independent confirmation through something like drift alignment to determine the true error. As I’ve written before, I have some cheap plastic calipers with a digital readout that appear to have 10 micron accuracy.  I don’t believe them. 

 

I own a CEM60EC and am very happy with it, so don’t think I’m an iOptron basher. I’m willing to consider buying this, but I’ll need more convincing. 


Edited by johnsoda, 31 March 2019 - 08:13 AM.

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#17 suvowner

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 08:58 PM

30 arc seconds is same as polemaster ........which is proven performer.

 

with this units being mounted internally to the cem60 highly unlikely for the calibration of rotation axis to change, but if you are not confident doesn't seem too hard to recalibrate rotation axis, but in this case it is optional.

 

just how good does your pa have to be ??  3 arcminutes of pa error is good enough for 10 min exposure at 2500mm focal length, at a dec of 70 you only get 4.5 microns of field rotation. 


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#18 johnsoda

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 10:14 PM

30 arc seconds is same as polemaster ........which is proven performer.

 

with this units being mounted internally to the cem60 highly unlikely for the calibration of rotation axis to change, but if you are not confident doesn't seem too hard to recalibrate rotation axis, but in this case it is optional.

 

just how good does your pa have to be ??  3 arcminutes of pa error is good enough for 10 min exposure at 2500mm focal length, at a dec of 70 you only get 4.5 microns of field rotation. 

I agree that claims about accuracy of PA are often overblown, a point I argue here:

 

https://www.cloudyni...ment/?p=9130942

 

However, I think the PoleMaster and SharpCap approach of rotating each time is less prone to concealing errors than this approach for the reasons I argue above.  Also, any measurement system needs to be checked by independent means.  



#19 suvowner

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 10:23 PM

it looks like you could if desired recalibrate rotation axis every time if you want, not sure which is more time efficient polemaster or this one. since polemaster for the cem60 can be removed and is secured by a single screw, much easier for rotation axis to change, but for the internal mounter ipolar seems like it would be alot more stable.....

 

wouldn't your first sub be an adequate "independent" measure ?  no star trails, and your good to go ?

 

if one is trying to take 20 min subs at 2500 mm with a cem60 is likely to have some trouble......I would think that is a task for proven premium mounts only.....


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#20 johnsoda

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 10:46 PM

it looks like you could if desired recalibrate rotation axis every time if you want, not sure which is more time efficient polemaster or this one. since polemaster for the cem60 can be removed and is secured by a single screw, much easier for rotation axis to change, but for the internal mounter ipolar seems like it would be alot more stable.....

I agree the PoleMaster mount for the CEM60 is not the most stable.  Used to rotate on me all the time. That’s why I now use a separate ADM dovetail mount that is much more solid. 

 

I’m sure the iPolar will be fine. I am just skeptical of people who say they get 5 arcsecond accuracy in PA because the tool, whatever it is, tells them that. That’s like me saying my watch is accurate to one second a year without comparing it to some kind of atomic clock. 

 

Bottom line is that with the PoleMaster or the SharpCap method, you don’t have to rely on the camera remaining exactly stable between uses, as long as it’s stable during use. In fact, I remove mine after use each time. With the iPolar, you assume it does. Not saying it’s a big deal, but it is a consideration. 

 

I’m thinking you could probably use this with the SharpCap PA tool, much as I use my PoleMaster with it. Since I already do that, I don’t plan to retrofit my CEM60 with it. I might be interested in it for a new mount, though. 


Edited by johnsoda, 31 March 2019 - 08:14 AM.


#21 suvowner

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 11:57 PM

5 arc seconds, 45.... 1-2 arc minutes....for most doesn't matter 
 
we astroimagers do tend to be an ocd kind of bunch lol.gif
 
Screen Shot 2018-08-14 at 2.05.35 PM.png

Edited by suvowner, 31 March 2019 - 12:04 AM.

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#22 HxPI

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 10:00 AM

 

5 arc seconds, 45.... 1-2 arc minutes....for most doesn't matter 
 
we astroimagers do tend to be an ocd kind of bunch lol.gif

 

I’ve never been concerned about field rotation. Field drift is my primary concern. Is there a similiar tool that calculates field drift?



#23 HxPI

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 10:03 AM

I agree the PoleMaster mount for the CEM60 is not the most stable.  Used to rotate on me all the time. That’s why I now use a separate ADM dovetail mount that is much more solid. 

 

I’m sure the iPolar will be fine. I am just skeptical of people who say they get 5 arcsecond accuracy in PA because the tool, whatever it is, tells them that. That’s like me saying my watch is accurate to one second a year without comparing it to some kind of atomic clock. 

 

Bottom line is that with the PoleMaster or the SharpCap method, you don’t have to rely on the camera remaining exactly stable between uses, as long as it’s stable during use. In fact, I remove mine after use each time. With the iPolar, you assume it does. Not saying it’s a big deal, but it is a consideration. 

 

I’m thinking you could probably use this with the SharpCap PA tool, much as I use my PoleMaster with it. Since I already do that, I don’t plan to retrofit my CEM60 with it. I might be interested in it for a new mount, though. 

I replaced the two flimsy screws that come with the Polemaster with four Allen head screws from the hardware store. Now the camera mounting is very solid and doesn’t move at all. I keep the camera mounted all the time so I can reuse the previous calibration, which makes alignment faster!


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#24 gotak

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Posted 31 March 2019 - 07:14 PM

For what's it's worth I believe that the origin of the pole master came from ioptron's chief technical guy.

This ipolar appears a refinement of the original concept.

#25 SDTopensied

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Posted 17 April 2019 - 10:10 PM

Question for someone who has actually used this...

 

I'm curious to know just how much of a view of polaris you need or don't need to have.  Am I correct in assuming that you need to have a view to the north that may or may not include Polars? The manual mentions plate solving.  Anyone know if it will plate solve on another region of the sky for polar alignment?

 

-Steve


Edited by SDTopensied, 17 April 2019 - 10:11 PM.



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