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Old Versus New Glass

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#1 Kent10

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 10:12 PM

I have a few of the Masuyama eyepieces from the 1980's.  These were discontinued after being manufactured just a few years.  Masuyama started production again recently and this is what is said about the new version.  "Masuyama eyepieces are back in production and updated with modern glass and multi-coating technology."

 

I haven't had a chance to compare any of the new versions with the old.  Some of the newer ones are different in terms of AFOV but the 60mm version is 46 degrees which is the same as the old version.  I doubt there are too many who have compared these 2, but I am wondering in what way the glass might is different.  Is modern glass better?  In what ways?  Or is this all marketing?  I know coatings have developed and improved but how has the glass changed?

 

Thanks, Kent



#2 SeattleScott

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 10:47 PM

Some glass has higher transmission, like the old white water versus soda lime comparison. There are also rare earth glasses like Lanthanum for improved color correction. When people have compared Delos to the “old” Vixen LVWs they talk about the different presentation in the Delos, presumably from a different glass type. I think the most obvious difference would be in the coatings though. My 7T1 is just as sharp as my modern eyepieces. May not have as good of light transmission but the views are roughly similar when looking at a bright object like the Moon.

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#3 luxo II

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:01 AM

Only way to know for sure is a side by side comparison - same scope, same objects, same conditions. And even the it’s entirely qualitative and subjective, depending on the observer.

The first challenge is to define what you mean by “best”...

Anything else ist just a guess - or marketing hype.

I haven’t found a lab that publishes the results of quantitative eyepiece tests.

Edited by luxo II, 19 March 2019 - 12:03 AM.


#4 SomebodyElseEntirely

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:49 AM

I think it unwise automatically to assume that newer = better. Some older glass types are no longer being produced, not because they have been surpassed in some aspect or other of optical performance by newer alternatives, but because they have been deemed environmentally harmful.

 

With regard to coatings: Zeiss Oberkochen was doing it right back in the 80s and 90s with their T* coatings. I have not seen better coatings in any modern eyepiece (including from Zeiss). 

 

When manufacturers speak of newer being better, it tends, in reality, to be in areas that serve their interests, not those of consumers (newer = easier & cheaper to manufacture, and yet sold at the same price as the older stuff). 

 

The world changed very much for the worse when accountants began to be paid better than engineers.

 

Yeah, I know, I'm painting broad stokes here — I really shouldn't be implying that all this holds absolutely. Just adding my voice to those who say that one should not automatically get excited by manufacturers' claims. This is exactly why Kent has asked for a comparison between old and new. Looking forward to reports. This is a very interesting topic. 


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#5 Kent10

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 01:11 AM

Well, I bought a 50mm Masuyama new style/glass and I will compare with my 45mm Masuyama old style/glass.  I don't know if I can draw any conclusions about the glass because of the slightly different focal lengths but it should be fun comparing.



#6 Jeff Morgan

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 09:29 AM

I think it unwise automatically to assume that newer = better. Some older glass types are no longer being produced, not because they have been surpassed in some aspect or other of optical performance by newer alternatives, but because they have been deemed environmentally harmful.

 

With regard to coatings: Zeiss Oberkochen was doing it right back in the 80s and 90s with their T* coatings. I have not seen better coatings in any modern eyepiece (including from Zeiss). 

 

When manufacturers speak of newer being better, it tends, in reality, to be in areas that serve their interests, not those of consumers (newer = easier & cheaper to manufacture, and yet sold at the same price as the older stuff). 

 

The world changed very much for the worse when accountants began to be paid better than engineers.

 

Yeah, I know, I'm painting broad stokes here — I really shouldn't be implying that all this holds absolutely. Just adding my voice to those who say that one should not automatically get excited by manufacturers' claims. This is exactly why Kent has asked for a comparison between old and new. Looking forward to reports. This is a very interesting topic. 

 

What he said.

 

If you are unsure, consider the role you use the eyepiece for.

 

If it is Planetary, coatings don't matter so much. I would not be inclined to update. Wait for the other user reports.

 

If it is for DSO's, coatings are very important, especially with higher glass count designs. Here, I would be very open to an upgrade.

 

And for that matter, once the wallet opens I would also look at "competing" designs.




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