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Considering abandoning mono viewing entirely

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#1 jtrezzo

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 01:29 PM

I have a full set of 2" 100 degree eyepieces, and some 82s, but I find myself hardly ever using them anymore. When I pop in the binoviewers and have a look, then take them out and look through say, my 20mm 100 degree, I struggle to find much advantage to mono viewing. It's uncomfortable, and has no depth. Even with the 100 degree eyepieces I find it appears as a wider field to just be looking through 2x24mm eyepieces in the binos. It also seems like despite the fact that the light from the telescope is being split between the two, using two eyes seems to make up any sensitivity to faint objects. Do others find the same? 

 

Perhaps my eyes are just not well suited to mono viewing? I am not a serious visual observer, quite casual really, mainly due to not having easy access to a dark site (Bortle 5 home). But in any case I am thinking about selling all my mono EPs and going with a few nice bino pairs instead. 

 

Has anyone just gone full binoviewer and gotten rid of all mono eyepieces? If yes, did you end up missing having them, perhaps even buying them again? Are there any certain times where you would absolutely not want to use a binoviewer and instead prefer to view with one eye? I am trying to avoid seller's regret...


Edited by jtrezzo, 20 March 2019 - 05:02 PM.

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#2 gezak22

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 01:58 PM

I've turned into a casual observer, and I went full bino after a while. The best way to avoid seller's regret is to not sell. Keep it all, but store your mono gear in a separate box. If you go a full year without reaching for it, I think you are ready to sell with little risk.


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#3 TOMDEY

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 01:59 PM

Both have advantages.

 

Over-arching is that our tastes and preferences morph with time. I'd say go with your personal instincts, rather than other's pontifications. You have fallen in love with bino... go all-out bino! More high-end matched eyepiece pairs... wonderful!

 

PS: The only other next step up regarding binos... would be all out true binoscopes. That's where I'm at, and love it. My largest are 16-inch true binos.    Tom


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#4 TOMDEY

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:03 PM

Ummm... I just realized... in the ~Binoviewers~ forum, you can expect everyone to encourage you to concentrate on --- binoviewers!  It's like strolling into a bar, and taking a poll regarding abstinence.  Tom


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#5 ngc7319_20

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:19 PM

I sometimes oscillate between mono and bino on few month timescales. Both have advantages / disadvantages. 

 

I think the forte for bino is planets, where there is plenty of light, and splitting the light reduces effects of eye floaters, etc.  Bino is clear winner there.

 

On faint fuzzies its a more even race.  I was testing this the other day in my 24" -- trying to keep the powers equal, do A/B comparison.  M51, M13, etc.   I couldn't see anything in one and not the other.  Mono seemed to pickup some dark structures in M51 (dust lanes?), but I'm not even sure they were real.  Oddly the sky background seemed to be more objectionable in the bino.  Much of the differences, if real, were at the limit of perception.

 

Mono is quicker / easier in some ways -- don't have to get the eyepieces leveled, inter-pupilary distance, merge sorted out, etc.  For bino you may find yourself sorting out back focus issues, OCS settings, etc., but most of that is a one-time effort.

 

Binos will be very difficult to use in any scenario where you are sharing the view with another observer.  You'll spend all you time tweaking the inter-pupilary distance, etc.  It can be done, but won't be efficient.

 

Doing 2" eyepieces like Nagler 31 T5, 25 T5, Ethos 21, will be very challenging / impossible with bino.  So you would be giving up certain views if you go all bino.  Mostly you will be giving up wide apparent field combined with large exit pupil.


Edited by ngc7319_20, 20 March 2019 - 03:29 PM.

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#6 photoracer18

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:43 PM

I was an original beta tester for Denkmeier and almost went full bino from that point. But I didn't. I do use the BV a lot but they show best with everything except DSOs which is a tossup to me. So I generally do mono with my Pentax eyepieces for that because they are better eyepieces than my BV ones.

#7 Miranda2525

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:54 PM

I have a full set of 2" 100 degree eyepieces, and some 82s, but I find myself hardly ever using them anymore. When I pop in the binoviewers and have a look, then take them out and look through say, my 20mm 100 degree, I struggle to find much advantage to mono viewing. It's uncomfortable, and has no depth. Even with the 100 degree eyepieces I find it appears as a wider field to just be looking through 2x24mm eyepieces in the binos. It also seems like despite the fact that the light from the telescope is being split between the two, using two eyes seems to make up any sensitivity to faint objects. Do others find the same? 

 

Perhaps my eyes are just not well suited to mono viewing? I am not a serious visual observer, quite casual really, mainly due to not having easy access to a dark site (Bortle 5 home). But in any case I am thinking about selling all my mono EPs and going with a few nice bino pairs instead. 

Has anyone just gone full binoviewer and gotten rid of all mono eyepieces? If yes, did you end up missing having them, perhaps even buying them again? Are there any certain times where you would absolutely not want to use a binoviewer and instead prefer to view with one eye? I am trying to avoid seller's regret...

I just recently went full binoviewing myself.  I prefer using two eyes all of the time now because there is more depth perception and it is just so much more comfortable compared to squinting with just one eye.

 

I sold all of the baader morpheus eyepieces I owned and went with sets of astro tech paradigms for the binoviewer. I only kept one 2" eyepiece for sweeping if I ever need to find something when I am off the mark by a little bit. if I need, I can barlow the 2" WF for a closer mono view, but I doubt I will even go there seeing as I can just use two 25mm AT paradigms in the binoviewer instead. I used to look for really faint galaxies, but now I find it a waste of time looking for a blip of light that can barely be seen. Now I concentrate more on brighter things.


Edited by Miranda2525, 20 March 2019 - 03:00 PM.

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#8 H79GKT

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 04:24 PM

I was in the same place a few years ago. Sold all my mono eyepieces, Ethos, Naglers, Nagler zoom, Radian, Pentax ortho etc and determined to convert to bino exclusively...

 

But now I am back and I do both mono and bino, 50/50. Purchased widefield mono eyepieces again and of course I miss all the TV eyepieces I sold....

 

I still like bino but not excited with all the extra efforts (mentioned by other folks) which are cumbersome so I am trying to simplify the bino system as simple as possible now.

 

As pointed out numerous times here and there, one thing to note is the dimming on bino, especially when using bino on small aperture scopes.

 

I compared my 2 refractors side by side (Mono with 4.1" Pentax and bino with 4.3" SV, same fl using barlow and same eyepieces/magnification) and dimming on bino especially when viewing dimmer targets was quite obvious. No big issue by dimming on brighter objects though. If you use larger scopes, maybe dimming on bino might not be a big issue but I don’t have direct experiences.

 

So, as many folks are saying, you can enjoy bino absolutely if you are on right objects. (brighter stuff)

 

For me, it's not a matter of either bino or mono now but I just enjoy both so now I am putting 2 scopes side by side on my mount, one with mono, the other with bino. (My eyes gets a bit busy but fun)

 

From my own experience, if I were the OP, I would probably keep all the mono eyepieces....


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#9 grif 678

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 05:13 PM

If you do not count the fact that you can see more detail, just less eye strain is worth using both eyes, the more detail is a plus.


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#10 Miranda2525

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 05:48 PM

I was in the same place a few years ago. Sold all my mono eyepieces, Ethos, Naglers, Nagler zoom, Radian, Pentax ortho etc and determined to convert to bino exclusively...

 

But now I am back and I do both mono and bino, 50/50. Purchased widefield mono eyepieces again and of course I miss all the TV eyepieces I sold....

 

I still like bino but not excited with all the extra efforts (mentioned by other folks) which are cumbersome so I am trying to simplify the bino system as simple as possible now.

 

As pointed out numerous times here and there, one thing to note is the dimming on bino, especially when using bino on small aperture scopes.

 

I compared my 2 refractors side by side (Mono with 4.1" Pentax and bino with 4.3" SV, same fl using barlow and same eyepieces/magnification) and dimming on bino especially when viewing dimmer targets was quite obvious. No big issue by dimming on brighter objects though. If you use larger scopes, maybe dimming on bino might not be a big issue but I don’t have direct experiences.

 

So, as many folks are saying, you can enjoy bino absolutely if you are on right objects. (brighter stuff)

 

For me, it's not a matter of either bino or mono now but I just enjoy both so now I am putting 2 scopes side by side on my mount, one with mono, the other with bino. (My eyes gets a bit busy but fun)

 

From my own experience, if I were the OP, I would probably keep all the mono eyepieces....

True about small aperture telescopes....I use a 10" reflector myself, so not too concerned about light loss.


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#11 ngc7319_20

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 06:44 PM

If you do not count the fact that you can see more detail, just less eye strain is worth using both eyes, the more detail is a plus.

Well, it does vary from person to person...  I find mono viewing has less eye strain for me...  (Maybe it's time to re-collimate my binos...??)


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#12 Bob4BVM

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 01:54 AM

I still do the cyclops thing, but not if I can help it

Bright stuff is a no-brainer for me, BVer wins.

DSOs are the holdout though, just gotta have the light.

But I am working on that problem too, progress is slow but sure... then one of these days my BVers will be up for sale :)

 

CS

Bob

 

2x17-5.jpg


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#13 silv

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 02:02 AM

I believe your scopes are all of relatively long focal length. So your viewing interests  really might not at all be low power wide field like you'd get from binocular telescopes with exchangeable eyepieces or even straight through binoculars which Tomedy suggests - and of which I also thought at first. Simply because I love low-med power wide fields with 2 eyes. 

 

What I can relate to is the absolute preference for 2 eyes. I don't think I'd want to go back to pirate style. The only reason for pirate style would be, I assume from reading related forum posts, to see the very faintest of DSOs in a BIG scope on which a binoviewer might fail to show more detail than pirate style for an experienced observer.

But since you're a casual observer and not a "DSO athlete" you might never arrive at that crossroads. I know I won't - for example because I'll never buy a   14" dob like yours, anyway, and am restricted to near-city skies. 

 

Can you imagine yourself becoming a "serious DSO athlete" in the future? 



#14 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 02:48 AM

I’m going to echo sentiment of keeping singles around for a good long time. I view primarily with two eyes and using Night Vision bioculars. I didn’t touch regular eyepieces for over a year. I kept them all. Eventually I started using them again for planetary views or galaxy views even though I have pairs for two Binocular Telescopes and a WO BV. I found I’d ocassionally get a craving to just plop my 34mm SWA in, or 28mm SWA, or my 35mm Parks Gold. I have them all to reach for still. Unless you need the space real bad or money real bad, I say keep them and satisfy that ocassional urge when you get it.


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#15 jtrezzo

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 12:24 PM

Thanks for all the input everyone, very thought provoking. Yes my primary scopes at the moment are the 14" f/4.6 Dob and an ES 127ED. 

 

 

 

Can you imagine yourself becoming a "serious DSO athlete" in the future? 

Probably not, but you never know. I don't see it happening any time soon, if it ever does. Which does lead me to think going full bino would make sense. I suppose there's always the used market if I change my mind.

 

 

I sold all of the baader morpheus eyepieces I owned and went with sets of astro tech paradigms for the binoviewer. I only kept one 2" eyepiece for sweeping if I ever need to find something when I am off the mark by a little bit. if I need, I can barlow the 2" WF for a closer mono view, but I doubt I will even go there seeing as I can just use two 25mm AT paradigms in the binoviewer instead. I used to look for really faint galaxies, but now I find it a waste of time looking for a blip of light that can barely be seen. Now I concentrate more on brighter things.

This is what I am leaning towards - keeping a few of the singles around, but paring them down heavily. I may keep my 30mm 82 degree for a wide field, perhaps a couple others. I am not really into searching out tiny faint galaxies either. I'm curious why did you sell the Morpheus EPs? I thought those might be great for binoviewing in pairs.

 

 

I was an original beta tester for Denkmeier and almost went full bino from that point. But I didn't. I do use the BV a lot but they show best with everything except DSOs which is a tossup to me. So I generally do mono with my Pentax eyepieces for that because they are better eyepieces than my BV ones.

Have you ever, or do you think that if you were to use pairs of your Pentax in the BV (not sure if their form factor suits that) they would be as good as cyclops viewing with them ? 

 

 

More high-end matched eyepiece pairs... wonderful!

 

PS: The only other next step up regarding binos... would be all out true binoscopes. That's where I'm at, and love it. My largest are 16-inch true binos.    Tom

Yes that is the reason for doing this. As much as I'd like to keep the mono set "just in case", selling those would pay for some better BV pairs.

 

Binoscopes - I hope one day I'll get there! 


Edited by jtrezzo, 21 March 2019 - 12:24 PM.


#16 Miranda2525

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 03:52 PM

Miranda2525, on 20 Mar 2019 - 3:54 PM, said:

I sold all of the baader morpheus eyepieces I owned and went with sets of astro tech paradigms for the binoviewer. I only kept one 2" eyepiece for sweeping if I ever need to find something when I am off the mark by a little bit. if I need, I can barlow the 2" WF for a closer mono view, but I doubt I will even go there seeing as I can just use two 25mm AT paradigms in the binoviewer instead. I used to look for really faint galaxies, but now I find it a waste of time looking for a blip of light that can barely be seen. Now I concentrate more on brighter things.

 

 

 

This is what I am leaning towards - keeping a few of the singles around, but paring them down heavily. I may keep my 30mm 82 degree for a wide field, perhaps a couple others. I am not really into searching out tiny faint galaxies either. I'm curious why did you sell the Morpheus EPs? I thought those might be great for binoviewing in pairs.

 

I sold the Morpheus eyepieces only because of the weight, and the fact that they are so wide in girth. They were touching because the BV'er was closed all of the way in. I was also getting around 230x magnification when using a pair of 12.5mm morpheus in the BV'er. I replaced them with a pair of 15mm Astro Tech Paradigms which give me around 180x which I find better than 230x because I can use them on planets, double stars, small globulars etc without having too much power. 

The weight of the two 15mm Paradigms is much more manageable as well. I can also get my eyes into the eyepieces with more breathing room compared to the two Morpheus when binoviewing with them. 


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#17 silv

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 12:08 AM

Interesting experience with the Morpheus. Then barrel diameter of 55mm and eye relief of 20mm isn't everyone's cup of tea. Tech Specs PDF https://www.baader-p...hnical_data.pdf

Good you found a satisfying solution for your individual requirements. 


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#18 Miranda2525

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 11:53 PM

Interesting experience with the Morpheus. Then barrel diameter of 55mm and eye relief of 20mm isn't everyone's cup of tea. Tech Specs PDF https://www.baader-p...hnical_data.pdf

Good you found a satisfying solution for your individual requirements. 

Thanks silv!  Hope you get what you like too! 



#19 Miranda2525

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 02:08 PM

Went observing last night. One look into a 12mm explore scientific 92 degree changed my mind!

 

Mono-viewing with that eyepiece was really nice!  



#20 Joe1950

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 08:10 PM

Just started binoviewing. Been in the hobby over 50 years and never tried it before. I use it with an 80mm refractor, so far, and find it amazing.

 

Where I live, DSOs are virtually impossible. I have to concentrate on the moon and planets; sometimes a double star view. So the binos are good for those objects even with the smaller aperture.

 

I've done the one eye closed comparison test and there is no contest. Everything about the view is better. And I see more detail. I was skeptical about that but I just can't deny it.

 

I have to rebuild my 6" reflector in time for the planets to get in a better position. I'm anticipating the binoviewer with that scope, or my 127mm Mak will be excellent on Jupiter and Saturn. Thus far, I've only observed the moon.

 

 

As to the question, I would say that I doubt I'll go back to mono observing. With my skies and equipment and what I look at, it would be a definite letdown. But I won't sell my modest eyepiece collection. I have mostly Agena Dual EDs and a few others mixed in.

 

Rather, I'll probably duplicate a few key focal lengths. But selling the lot wouldn't fetch much money so why bother. 

 

I'm still very much amazed!

 

I have a modified Nikon BV by Paul Rini. Great guy and lives nearby.

joe


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#21 faackanders2

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 05:26 PM

Just started binoviewing. Been in the hobby over 50 years and never tried it before. I use it with an 80mm refractor, so far, and find it amazing.

 

Where I live, DSOs are virtually impossible. I have to concentrate on the moon and planets; sometimes a double star view. So the binos are good for those objects even with the smaller aperture.

 

I've done the one eye closed comparison test and there is no contest. Everything about the view is better. And I see more detail. I was skeptical about that but I just can't deny it.

 

I have to rebuild my 6" reflector in time for the planets to get in a better position. I'm anticipating the binoviewer with that scope, or my 127mm Mak will be excellent on Jupiter and Saturn. Thus far, I've only observed the moon.

 

 

As to the question, I would say that I doubt I'll go back to mono observing. With my skies and equipment and what I look at, it would be a definite letdown. But I won't sell my modest eyepiece collection. I have mostly Agena Dual EDs and a few others mixed in.

 

Rather, I'll probably duplicate a few key focal lengths. But selling the lot wouldn't fetch much money so why bother. 

 

I'm still very much amazed!

 

I have a modified Nikon BV by Paul Rini. Great guy and lives nearby.

joe

The single eyepieces you would need to keep are the 2" wide TFOV ones, since binoviewing increase the power and reduces the TFOV.

Also some of your dimmer DSOs will be visible monoviewing where they will not be visible in the split light binoviewers.


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#22 faackanders2

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Posted 06 April 2019 - 05:31 PM

I have a full set of 2" 100 degree eyepieces, and some 82s, but I find myself hardly ever using them anymore. When I pop in the binoviewers and have a look, then take them out and look through say, my 20mm 100 degree, I struggle to find much advantage to mono viewing. It's uncomfortable, and has no depth. Even with the 100 degree eyepieces I find it appears as a wider field to just be looking through 2x24mm eyepieces in the binos. It also seems like despite the fact that the light from the telescope is being split between the two, using two eyes seems to make up any sensitivity to faint objects. Do others find the same? 

 

Perhaps my eyes are just not well suited to mono viewing? I am not a serious visual observer, quite casual really, mainly due to not having easy access to a dark site (Bortle 5 home). But in any case I am thinking about selling all my mono EPs and going with a few nice bino pairs instead. 

 

Has anyone just gone full binoviewer and gotten rid of all mono eyepieces? If yes, did you end up missing having them, perhaps even buying them again? Are there any certain times where you would absolutely not want to use a binoviewer and instead prefer to view with one eye? I am trying to avoid seller's regret...

I used binoviewers almost exclusively till 100-120AFOV came out, now I mostly monoview with 100-120AFOV.


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#23 rob.0919

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:50 PM

Its really very simple.

I have two eyes, and i prefer to use them both at the same time.

 

When i listen to music, yes, i prefer stereo sound as well.

 

One eyed viewing no longer cuts it. My last 2" was my 31 Nagler, which i'd had nearly 10 years.

I felt a bit sentimental about waving it goodbye, but i don't miss it at all.

 

With my light pollution, i'm fairly limited to what i can see in the UK. I can't go too deep here.

 

But all the 'prime suspects' that we all know and love, to me, all look better through the binoviewer.

M42, M27, M11, M32,  M5, M13 etc etc

 

Looking at globs in particular with 2 eyes has been a revelation. 

No eye strain, comfortable and relaxing viewing with my 24mm lenses, theres so much more detail right there.

 

Aperture is important of course to get that bright image, my 12" F4 excels, and i've been super impressed with

my Newtonian Earthwin Powerswitch Bino system that i use exclusively with it.

 

At meets at our dark sites, i look through other scopes, with mono eyepieces, and theres some very nice set ups

with quality eyepieces, but to me, nothing beats a two eyed 24 Panoptic view for low power views.


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#24 Joe1950

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Posted 08 April 2019 - 07:46 PM

The single eyepieces you would need to keep are the 2" wide TFOV ones, since binoviewing increase the power and reduces the TFOV.

Also some of your dimmer DSOs will be visible monoviewing where they will not be visible in the split light binoviewers.

Believe me, where I live, the brightest DSOs are quite underwhelming. Unaided eye limiting magnitude is generally about 3; maybe 3.5 on a rare transparent night. The LP is horrible.


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#25 rob.0919

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 02:49 AM

You're not on your own Joe.

Its the same for me too, most of the time.

 

But i still love the hobby, and try and make the best of what we have. (when its not raining, or wall to wall cloud ! )


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