73 replies to this topic

[lenrabinowitz]

Anyone selling Evolution replacement batteries?  I think I may need a new one.

 

High Point Scientific had them for a while but does not seem to anymore.  Could not find it on the Celestron site.

 

Thanks!

 

Len

[TikiTom]

Anyone selling Evolution replacement batteries?  I think I may need a new one.

 

High Point Scientific had them for a while but does not seem to anymore.  Could not find it on the Celestron site.

 

Thanks!

 

Len

Hey Len-

Sorry, I do not know where to find replacement batteries. Never thought they might die someday.

But I do have a couple questions:

I have an Evo mount also, now you have me concerned about my battery.

How long have you owned your mount?

How much use does it have on it?

How did you store it in the house? Plugged in all the time or just every now & then?

I'm sure it still works plugged in.

 

Just trying to figure out preventative maintenance for future use of my mount.

 

Thanks....

 

UPDATE:

just looked at High Point website, found the battery and was able to add it to the cart-

https://www.highpoin...pes-ser-f00-007

was there an issue when you tried to checkout?

Edited by TikiTom, 23 March 2019 - 02:48 PM.

[lenrabinowitz]

I have had mine since March 2015.  It gets moderate use.  I fully charge it before each use.  This winter I seem to be getting a lot of “low battery” messages after only an hour or two even though it started with a full charge.  It has me thinking it is time for a new battery.

[TikiTom]

I have had mine since March 2015.  It gets moderate use.  I fully charge it before each use.  This winter I seem to be getting a lot of “low battery” messages after only an hour or two even though it started with a full charge.  It has me thinking it is time for a new battery.

 

May have been the cold weather?

Here in WI, when it gets below zero, batteries of all types, all devices, die pretty pretty fast. 

[lenrabinowitz]

Possibly, but we did not get that cold in the northeast, and I just got one the othet night when it wad in the 20s.  I will ser.

[skaiser]

From what I remember from previous conversations with celestron they were going to have information and a way to get new batteries .

send customer service a note .

i am sure they can help out

[skaiser]

If you are still looking into a battery...

I knew I had something on the Evo battery.

Here is what I found posted elsewhere on this forum.

 

Some battery Info:
The internal battery used in the Evo is manufactured by Shenzhen O'CELL Technology Co., Ltd. located in Guangdong, China. I Googled the product number IFM9.6-45E2. This manufacturer makes similar Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries for electric bikes and scooters. The rating indicates that the battery should provide between 1000-2000 charge / discharge cycles based on 80% depth of discharge. The rate of discharge during cycles will effect the life span of the battery.

Item Unit Specifications (From vendor's site: http://www.ecvv.com/...ct/3228753.html )
Typical Capacity Ah 4.5AH
Minimum Capacity Ah 4.3AH
Nominal Voltage Voltage 9.6V
Dimension (L*W*H) mm (Customization accepted)
Approx.Weight g 600
Max. Charge Voltage Voltage 11.1
Cut-Off Discharge Voltage Voltage 7.5V
Standard Charge Current Amps 2A recommended
Rapid Charge Current Amps 4
Continuous Discharge Current Amps 2A
Pulse Discharge Current(5S) Amps 10A
Storage Temperature Range oC -20oC--70oC
Working Temperature (Charging) oC -10oC--45oC
Working Temperature (Discharging) oC -20oC--60oC
Life Cycle(2C,80%DOD) 1000
Life Cycle(1C,80%DOD) 2000

Edited by skaiser, 01 April 2019 - 02:57 PM.

[David1948Ettie]

Can anyone point me to a source for this battery in the UK?, I will fit it myself (if I can get one!)

[Noah4x4]

Try UK Celestron Importer David Hinds. I doubt if they will supply a battery in isolation, but I suspect will effect a local repair. https://www.dhinds.co.uk

 

They don't normally deal with the general public, so might have to deal with them via your retailer (perhaps one reason not to buy astro gear via Amazon). 

Edited by Noah4x4, 03 November 2019 - 05:30 PM.

[BGazing]

Looks like my battery is due for replacement. When fully charged, it lasts about 2 hrs of moderate use, then as soon as it hits 'low' on status (not even warning) it goes dead. Upon charging it says fault then continues charging...so due for replacement. It wasn't good to start with and I plan to buy AZ-100 with drives, but still...would be a shame to write off a mount.

Can the replacement battery be sourced from anywhere...China? Any information would be much appreciated.

My mount is 2016 edition, I read that those batteries had 4 pins...

Edited by BGazing, 12 August 2022 - 10:58 AM.

[lancing]

This is why I hate all these electronics with integrated lithium batteries. They often make them difficult to replace and all lithium batteries have a life cycle limit and if you can't replace them after that cycle limit you effectively end up with a very expensive paper weight.

 

Edit: Its actually worse then I thought. There is another thread in the Mounts section discussing it.

 

Apparently these are non-removable Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) cells which really should not be getting put into telescope mounts at all as they are pretty temperature sensitive (especially to cold as they get damaged being charged or discharged below 0c) and they are also not that easy to replace in this mount apparently.

Edited by lancing, 17 August 2022 - 05:16 PM.

[carver2011]

This is the Evolution battery;

   

 

[carver2011]

This is why I hate all these electronics with integrated lithium batteries. They often make them difficult to replace and all lithium batteries have a life cycle limit and if you can't replace them after that cycle limit you effectively end up with a very expensive paper weight.

 

Edit: Its actually worse then I thought. There is another thread in the Mounts section discussing it.

 

Apparently these are non-removable Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) cells which really should not be getting put into telescope mounts at all as they are pretty temperature sensitive (especially to cold as they get damaged being charged or discharged below 0c) and they are also not that easy to replace in this mount apparently.

I have had an Evolution mount since 2016, and my battery is still going strong. There are many like myself that like being able to use my scope without having to replace batteries such as double A's, or plugging into a 110V power outlet. After a long night if need be,I can plug in a 12V 6 ah Talenntcell battery pack. I don't understand all the doom and gloom about failing batteries. I have seen but a few cases on CN's.  If and when my battery does bite the dirt, I will power it with an exteral power source. Until then I will enjoy it without worrying where I will plug it in, or do I have enough AA bateries. For me the built in battery in the Evolution is the best thing since sliced bread. Many in these threads are worried about something that hasn't happened yet and may not. I failing batteries was a big issue, CN's would be loaded with posts. I don't see that happening.

[lenrabinowitz]

Has anyone tried just contacting Celestron?  They must have anticipated this.

[CA Curtis 17]

Apparently these are non-removable Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) cells which really should not be getting put into telescope mounts at all as they are pretty temperature sensitive (especially to cold as they get damaged being charged or discharged below 0c) and they are also not that easy to replace in this mount apparently.

Not sure where you got this information but every LiFePO4 battery I have seen is spec'd as follows:

 

Discharge Temperature Range:   -20C to 57C  which is -4 F to 135F

Charge Temperature Range:         -4C or 0C to 50 or 57C  which is  25 - 32F to  122 - 135F

So you can discharge them safely well below freezing but cannot charge them much below freezing if at all.  LiFePO4 actually provide power better at low temperatures than lead acid.

 

I do agree with your other comments.

[lancing]

I have had an Evolution mount since 2016, and my battery is still going strong. There are many like myself that like being able to use my scope without having to replace batteries such as double A's, or plugging into a 110V power outlet. After a long night if need be,I can plug in a 12V 6 ah Talenntcell battery pack. I don't understand all the doom and gloom about failing batteries. I have seen but a few cases on CN's.  If and when my battery does bite the dirt, I will power it with an exteral power source. Until then I will enjoy it without worrying where I will plug it in, or do I have enough AA bateries. For me the built in battery in the Evolution is the best thing since sliced bread. Many in these threads are worried about something that hasn't happened yet and may not. I failing batteries was a big issue, CN's would be loaded with posts. I don't see that happening.

I've been dealing with LiFePO4's for years now. Solar generators, ebike, etc. Just like the batteries in your cell phone they all have a cycle life and they all eventually fail. This is just physics and it will happen.

 

LiFePO4's in particular come with some good advantages due to their chemistry. They have a very stable chemistry so they won't combust on you and they generally have extremely good cycle life compared to your more typical lithium ion batteries.

 

The downside is they are heavier and more temperature sensitive. Using them in environments below zero, in particular charging them below that temperature destroys them, this is true of all LiFePO4 batteries.

 

The problem here is the fact they are integrated into the chassis and not easily removable. The other issue is the mount apparently may not work if the cells stop functioning regardless of external power. While its not too big a deal to throw out a cell phone when its battery starts to go after a few years throwing out an Evo mount is a lot of money out the window for something that really shouldn't be disposable.

Edited by lancing, 18 August 2022 - 09:29 AM.

[skinnybadgercombo]

As battery file degrades, an alternative to replacing the internal battery is to buy a Jackery 1000.  

[Gtaha]

I have had an Evolution mount since 2016, and my battery is still going strong. There are many like myself that like being able to use my scope without having to replace batteries such as double A's, or plugging into a 110V power outlet. After a long night if need be,I can plug in a 12V 6 ah Talenntcell battery pack. I don't understand all the doom and gloom about failing batteries. I have seen but a few cases on CN's.  If and when my battery does bite the dirt, I will power it with an exteral power source. Until then I will enjoy it without worrying where I will plug it in, or do I have enough AA bateries. For me the built in battery in the Evolution is the best thing since sliced bread. Many in these threads are worried about something that hasn't happened yet and may not. I failing batteries was a big issue, CN's would be loaded with posts. I don't see that happening.

Did you change the mount setup or do anything special to use the external battery or the power outlet? My Evolution mount becomes unstable, disconnected, or loses its alignment whenever I do so. I usually use a Talenntcell battery pack or the original power adapter and always have this problem. Similar to what Michael Swanson discussed in this article  https://www.nexstars...ternalPower.htm

[carver2011]

I've been dealing with LiFePO4's for years now. Solar generators, ebike, etc. Just like the batteries in your cell phone they all have a cycle life and they all eventually fail. This is just physics and it will happen.

 

LiFePO4's in particular come with some good advantages due to their chemistry. They have a very stable chemistry so they won't combust on you and they generally have extremely good cycle life compared to your more typical lithium ion batteries.

 

The downside is they are heavier and more temperature sensitive. Using them in environments below zero, in particular charging them below that temperature destroys them, this is true of all LiFePO4 batteries.

 

The problem here is the fact they are integrated into the chassis and not easily removable. The other issue is the mount apparently may not work if the cells stop functioning regardless of external power. While its not too big a deal to throw out a cell phone when its battery starts to go after a few years throwing out an Evo mount is a lot of money out the window for something that really shouldn't be disposable.

Maybe I'm missing something, explain to me why you feel it;s necessary to throw out an Evolution for a failed battery?  It can be run from an exteral battery such as a Talentcell. If I'm wrong about this, please correct me. You appear to be better informed about these batteries than I am, so your opinion will be apprcieated. Some have said they were not sure if the mount will run with an external battery if the internal battery goes completely dead. Has anyone had this happen? Celestron is still making the Evolution, which means they still have a supplier for batteries. I believe they are not selling batteries alone because they want to do the repairs, and not have people doing their own difficult repairs. I have not heard a case of Celestron refusing to do an Evolution repair to replace a failed battery. If my Evolution battery failed and I was not able to run it with an  exteral battery, I would send it to Celestron for a new battery, certainly not throw it away. I knew in 2016 that there was a life expectancy to the battery when I bought it, but the mount is that good that I have no regrets. Running it with StrSense and GPS is awesome. Put in on the ground, start it up, and in a few minutes I have perfect goto's. A pleasure to use. 

  Ed

[carver2011]

Did you change the mount setup or do anything special to use the external battery or the power outlet? My Evolution mount becomes unstable, disconnected, or loses its alignment whenever I do so. I usually use a Talenntcell battery pack or the original power adapter and always have this problem. Similar to what Michael Swanson discussed in this article  https://www.nexstars...ternalPower.htm

When I've gotten a low battery light, I just plug in the Talentcell, and it's good to go without issues. I use a 12V 3000ma (3amp) Talentcell. I never use the 110V power adpapter, since it's only 2amps. When using the StarSense the power requirements are a little more. 

[lancing]

Maybe I'm missing something, explain to me why you feel it;s necessary to throw out an Evolution for a failed battery?  It can be run from an exteral battery such as a Talentcell. If I'm wrong about this, please correct me. You appear to be better informed about these batteries than I am, so your opinion will be apprcieated. Some have said they were not sure if the mount will run with an external battery if the internal battery goes completely dead. Has anyone had this happen? Celestron is still making the Evolution, which means they still have a supplier for batteries. I believe they are not selling batteries alone because they want to do the repairs, and not have people doing their own difficult repairs. I have not heard a case of Celestron refusing to do an Evolution repair to replace a failed battery. If my Evolution battery failed and I was not able to run it with an  exteral battery, I would send it to Celestron for a new battery, certainly not throw it away. I knew in 2016 that there was a life expectancy to the battery when I bought it, but the mount is that good that I have no regrets. Running it with StrSense and GPS is awesome. Put in on the ground, start it up, and in a few minutes I have perfect goto's. A pleasure to use. 

  Ed

There are a few threads on the forum about this already including some with pics and unit tear downs, I'll link below. But it does look like people are having a lot of issues relating to the battery and in some cases apparently it maybe causing issues with the main board. I obviously can't poll every single Evo user at say the 1,500 battery cycle point to see if its affecting every single one so I'm just going off what I've seen on CN.

 

I am also not telling anyone what to do here. If you are happy with your Evo I think that is great. I was seriously looking at both the 8SE and 8 Evo a day or two back and given I've dealt with LiFePO4's in higher end equipment before and having it integrated into the chassis totally scared me off the Evo and caused me to buy an AVX mount instead and I didn't even really want an EQ mount. For me personally this is just a bad design and I prefer higher end gear having the lithium packs be removable or external which allows users to easily swap or replace them when they eventually fail which they all will.

 

https://www.cloudyni...k-inside/page-6

Edited by lancing, 18 August 2022 - 02:58 PM.

[Gtaha]

When I've gotten a low battery light, I just plug in the Talentcell, and it's good to go without issues. I use a 12V 3000ma (3amp) Talentcell. I never use the 110V power adpapter, since it's only 2amps. When using the StarSense the power requirements are a little more. 

I also gave up on using the power adapter. I have the larger version 12/6A Talentcell that I plugin when I receive a low battery message via CPWI. I removed my StarSense but kept the motor focuser.  It behaves better but still keeps disconnecting the mount. Anyway, thanks for the reply!

[ShadowAngel]

This is why I hate all these electronics with integrated lithium batteries. They often make them difficult to replace and all lithium batteries have a life cycle limit and if you can't replace them after that cycle limit you effectively end up with a very expensive paper weight.

 

Edit: Its actually worse then I thought. There is another thread in the Mounts section discussing it.

 

Apparently these are non-removable Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) cells which really should not be getting put into telescope mounts at all as they are pretty temperature sensitive (especially to cold as they get damaged being charged or discharged below 0c) and they are also not that easy to replace in this mount apparently.

It's not THAT hard to replace for the most part. They changed the battery pack plug at some point, but all the ones within the last few years are fairly standardized. You literally just...unplug the old one, and plug in the new one. You do have to partially take the mount apart, but it's not crazy difficult.

Personally, i'd probably just send it to celestron for a new battery when it got to that point.

Edited by ShadowAngel, 18 August 2022 - 05:07 PM.

[carver2011]

There are a few threads on the forum about this already including some with pics and unit tear downs, I'll link below. But it does look like people are having a lot of issues relating to the battery and in some cases apparently it maybe causing issues with the main board. I obviously can't poll every single Evo user at say the 1,500 battery cycle point to see if its affecting every single one so I'm just going off what I've seen on CN.

 

I am also not telling anyone what to do here. If you are happy with your Evo I think that is great. I was seriously looking at both the 8SE and 8 Evo a day or two back and given I've dealt with LiFePO4's in higher end equipment before and having it integrated into the chassis totally scared me off the Evo and caused me to buy an AVX mount instead and I didn't even really want an EQ mount. For me personally this is just a bad design and I prefer higher end gear having the lithium packs be removable or external which allows users to easily swap or replace them when they eventually fail which they all will.

 

https://www.cloudyni...k-inside/page-6

Hello lancing

 You bring out some very good points. In my attemp to show how much I enjoy the Evolution mount I may have made it appear I'm unsympathetic with those having issues. I do know the stress when your equipment has failed. It has not been all milk and honey with my Evolution. Having an early 2016 model, I have the weak wifi version. In busy wifi areas it drops out constantly. I have also had numerous frustrating episodes doing firmware updates. My current version of StarSense has a faulty chipset in the hand controller USB port. After buying 4 cables, I could only update the hand controller using wifi. If not for the help on CN's, my mount would not be the pleasure it is today. The concept of having a well made mount with metal gears, with built in wifi and self contained battery is a winner for Celestron. They just have to get their QC improved. I like the idea of having an onboard power supply, but I think Celestron erred in not making it an exteral replacable unit that's part of the housing. Would I buy another Evolution, yes, in a heartbeat. 

[mlord]

My mount is an Evo, and it takes only a few minutes to remove the bottom and side-arm covers (1.5mm and 3mm hex keys) to access the battery pack.  My plan if/when the battery here eventually gets weak is to just slit the blue shrink-wrap and replace the individual cells with fresh ones. Individual LiFePO4 cells are readily available in a variety of capacities.

 

EDIT:

Okay, I opened my Evo and it appears to be a pack of nine (9) x 18650 form factor cells (18mm x 65mm), arranged in a 3x3 series/parallel set-up to achieve high current at 9.6V.  These can be purchased with solder tabs for US$4.50 each (or less).  Eg. https://www.batterys...Wh-5A-Rate.aspx

 

 

Note that at first the pack appears to contain ten (10) cells, not nine.  But one of the ten positions is "hollow", used for the series/parallel wiring, and perhaps a fuse.

 

Also, I tried unplugging the battery, and the mount then powered up and ran just fine from external power.  I suspect the factory 2A PSU may be insufficient in this mode, and would recommend at least a 5A PSU when used without any internal battery (to better handle momentary spikes in current draw during operation).

Edited by mlord, 19 August 2022 - 09:38 PM.