Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

GPS Rollover Problems!

  • Please log in to reply
379 replies to this topic

#51 Don W

Don W

    demi-god

  • *****
  • Administrators
  • Posts: 23263
  • Joined: 19 May 2003
  • Loc: Wisconsin, USA

Posted 15 April 2019 - 02:14 PM

Changed the name of the thread and made it a sticky.


  • mclewis1 and markb like this

#52 AstroBert

AstroBert

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 04 Oct 2015

Posted 15 April 2019 - 11:12 PM

Hello everyone. I have a cpc1100 mount with the gps  rollover problem;  tried the procedure indicated by Don for the old (no plus)  nexstar handset and it worked great.  I tried next  to use my Starsense handset and camera in the same scope, but if I do the  GPS time set first (with the wrong 1999 date, but correct hour), when I go ahead next and switch through the menu  to manual entry instead of gps,   the system forgets not only the wrong date but also the right hour that the gps had provided earlier. So I have to enter both by hand.  In summary,for Starsense  it seems to have to be both date and hour either gps or manual, but not the mix of good  gps hour /good  manual date that I could do with the nexstar handset.  Anyone else tried Starsense?   Thanks much, AstroBert



#53 Michael_Swanson

Michael_Swanson

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003

Posted 16 April 2019 - 10:06 AM

Thank you Mike for explaining this. So just to be clear, would I be safe after the GPS has linked to then go turn off the GPS.

I would than simply change to the correct date in the hand controller and also change to DST or Standard in the hand controller as well if need be (depending if the original GPS first linked has it wrong).

Thus if the DST/Standard does need to be changed in the hand controller, I would ALSO go ahead and change my TIME + or - 1 hour to match the DST/Standard time in my area in the hand controller as well.

I should be good to go then correct? Does this all sound right?

Thank you Mike.
Cheers
Don


Hi Don,

You should set the HC to Daylight Saving as that is what is currently in effect and then enter your current time, not one hour + or -

And as long as you are turning GPS on and off as was discussed earlier in this message string, the time and long/lat should be correct and all you will need to correct is the date.

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
https://www.NexStarSite.com

#54 Michael_Swanson

Michael_Swanson

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003

Posted 16 April 2019 - 10:08 AM

Hello everyone. I have a cpc1100 mount with the gps rollover problem; tried the procedure indicated by Don for the old (no plus) nexstar handset and it worked great. I tried next to use my Starsense handset and camera in the same scope, but if I do the GPS time set first (with the wrong 1999 date, but correct hour), when I go ahead next and switch through the menu to manual entry instead of gps, the system forgets not only the wrong date but also the right hour that the gps had provided earlier. So I have to enter both by hand. In summary,for Starsense it seems to have to be both date and hour either gps or manual, but not the mix of good gps hour /good manual date that I could do with the nexstar handset. Anyone else tried Starsense? Thanks much, AstroBert


Hi Bert,

It has been a while since I last used a StarSense hand control but that does sound like what I remember.

Celestron will be updating the StarSense HC (in addition to the NexStar+) to deal with the rollover issue.

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
https://www.NexStarSite.com

#55 markb

markb

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 256
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2006
  • Loc: Long Island; in transition to Arizona

Posted 16 April 2019 - 11:03 AM

My Nexstar GPS11 mount made in 2000 just linked up fine with the correct date, time and location.

 

This is one of the earliest models with the original 'engineering changes' 1.0 motorboard (and Az reversal stub adapter). It has been chip updated (old non-rewritible chips desoldered and replaced) to 4.06/4.6. It currently has a Plus HC, but I also tried the old 2.2 and 4.21 HCs, same result.

 

It has the original 2 board set up, Motorola Oncore M12 board with Celestron interface board.

 

The Oncore M12 was replaced with a 2006 version when the original had a eeprom issue (AFAIK). The new Oncore board is very different at the chip level but swapped in without a problem in January (in case that affact anything, which it should not).

 

My later single, arm mounted board GPS11 is in Arizona and cannot be checked until I get over then in May, but it sounds like no one has had any issues yet.

 

Before I replaced my bad M12 Oncore board that always gave a bad date, I used exactly the same step by step method suggested by Don in post #28. It worked perfectly, and I had the great advantage of getting accurate time and location from the GPS, even if the date was wrong.

 

ADDING GPS to non-GPS scopes:

 

I use StarBT from astro-gadgets.com and SkySafari 6 Plus for Android to run my Nexstar, and it takes the GPS fix and time, etc, from the tablet, BUT the HC DOES still play a role, see below. Note: StarBT will not work on a usb HC, only the rs232 type (had to replace my Plus HC for this reason). The wifi version should work identically, but I am staying bluetooth and cannot say.

 

$39 and $7 for SkySafari, can't get any cheaper to get working GPS on your scope, as long as your tablet or phone has GPS.

 

EXTERNAL GPS MAY NOT RESOLVE THE ISSUE DIRECTLY:

 

SkySafari/Star/BT does NOT directly resolve the rollover issue directly though. Please note that the following was done in daytime using a 'alignment' on Polaris using known North and a digital tilt meter for altitude of the star.

 

I turned off my GPS and then changed to an incorrect date and time in the menus to try this out. 

 

The HC rejected a SkySafari/StarBT request to slew to the Sun as too far below the horizon despite being in daytime, and slewed to a wrong location for Lyra as commanded by the SkySafari/StarBT, apparently SkySafari/StarBT simply having sent the slew command to the HC to execute using the HC's date, time and location as stored in the HC

 

I then transferred the time and date (and location if needed) information shown on the SkySafari display to the HC with GPS off, and the goto commands appear to have worked perfectly as sent by the SkySafari/StarBT. Obviously, they would also have worked if entered directly on the HC.

 

Also, I have found SkySafari to be the best source of time and location information in the absence of any GPS module, as in my old Nexstar 5. 

 

I hope this helps someone resolve their rollover or GPS issues.

 

Mark



#56 AstroBert

AstroBert

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 04 Oct 2015

Posted 17 April 2019 - 10:18 PM

Thanks Mike. BTW just to confirm that I have used my starsense system yesterday with manual time and date entry, disabling the gps entry, and it worked to perfection. Hope Celestron will come up with the gps firmware  fix as promised so can go back to functionality on that. 

Hi Bert,

It has been a while since I last used a StarSense hand control but that does sound like what I remember.

Celestron will be updating the StarSense HC (in addition to the NexStar+) to deal with the rollover issue.

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
https://www.NexStarSite.com



#57 hpanken

hpanken

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 01 Apr 2019

Posted 22 April 2019 - 07:24 PM

So I powered up with CPWI to see what happens with the GPS.  Time, date and GPS location all look good.  Is the program using the PC for all this?  Is this another way to bypass the rollover problem?

 

Howard



#58 Michael_Swanson

Michael_Swanson

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003

Posted 22 April 2019 - 07:28 PM

So I powered up with CPWI to see what happens with the GPS.  Time, date and GPS location all look good.  Is the program using the PC for all this?  Is this another way to bypass the rollover problem?

 

Howard

Hi Howard,

 

The last I heard, CPWI is still using the PC for date/time/location.  There are plans for CPWI to access the GPS modules (on mounts with one) in the future.  This will be most useful for those who go far afield with CPWI (it would continue to use a location based on your home Internet connection).  I would expect Celestron to ensure CPWI deals with the rollover issue as needed.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com



#59 Michael_Swanson

Michael_Swanson

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003

Posted 23 April 2019 - 07:28 AM

IMPORTANT UPDATE

 

Celestron has partnered with one of their previous software engineers (the one who originally authored the version 4 firmware) and they WILL provide an update for the version 4 hand control to fix the GPS rollover problem.

 

I have posted an article at my website (see the What's New section on the right side of the home page) describing this issue.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.NexStarSite.com


Edited by Michael_Swanson, 23 April 2019 - 07:33 AM.

  • Don W, tjay, emflocater and 1 other like this

#60 hobbes

hobbes

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 63
  • Joined: 19 Mar 2014
  • Loc: British Columbia - Canada

Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:45 AM

Music to my ears, thanks for that update Michael.
  • emflocater likes this

#61 junomike

junomike

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 16992
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Ontario

Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:47 AM

This is great news, Kudos to Celestron!

Had my NS11GPS out last night and as expected there were no issue.

Just tried my CN-16 (for use with CGE).  Looks like it's an older one as It works fine also.


  • emflocater likes this

#62 NenoVento

NenoVento

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 52
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2019
  • Loc: Tenerife (Canary Islands, Spain)

Posted 23 April 2019 - 11:03 AM

Great news indeed :-)

#63 emflocater

emflocater

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Clarkson, N.Y.

Posted 23 April 2019 - 06:23 PM

IMPORTANT UPDATE

 

Celestron has partnered with one of their previous software engineers (the one who originally authored the version 4 firmware) and they WILL provide an update for the version 4 hand control to fix the GPS rollover problem.

 

I have posted an article at my website (see the What's New section on the right side of the home page) describing this issue.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.NexStarSite.com

HE HAW!!! Thank you Mike for the superb UPDATE!!  Your awesome along with Celestron. bow.gif  bigshock.gif    banjodance.gif   bounce.gif elephant.gif jump.gif snoopy2.gif tomatodance.gif whee.gif yay.gif

 

Cheers

Don


Edited by emflocater, 24 April 2019 - 06:50 AM.


#64 Michael_Swanson

Michael_Swanson

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003

Posted 23 April 2019 - 11:24 PM

Hey Don - one of your emojis is broken :-)



#65 Noah4x4

Noah4x4

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2501
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Colchester UK

Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:12 AM

Firmware updates for both Nexstar and Nexstar + HC's have now been posted in TeamCelestron. Hopefully enough beta testers will try them and enable a prompt public release.


  • emflocater likes this

#66 junomike

junomike

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 16992
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Ontario

Posted 24 April 2019 - 06:34 AM

Firmware updates for both Nexstar and Nexstar + HC's have now been posted in TeamCelestron. Hopefully enough beta testers will try them and enable a prompt public release.

Does it fix all Celestron GPS's?



#67 emflocater

emflocater

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Clarkson, N.Y.

Posted 24 April 2019 - 06:49 AM

Hey Don - one of your emojis is broken :-)

Good eye Mike. Went back to fix it  but for some reason the "Applause" emoji seems to act up and not work all the time so I eliminated it. Thanks Mike.

 

Cheers

Don


Edited by emflocater, 24 April 2019 - 06:53 AM.


#68 Michael_Swanson

Michael_Swanson

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003

Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:46 AM

Does it fix all Celestron GPS's?


Any Celestron GPS that is returning a date 19.7 years in the past will be fixed by the new firmware. Note that the firmware is still in testing (beta testing). If any problems are discovered, further changes and testing will be necessary before it is officially released.

As Noah said, Celestron needs volunteers to test. In particular, if you have an affected CPC or CN-16 module, I would encourage you to sign up at TeamCelestron.com

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
https://www.NexStarSite.com

#69 junomike

junomike

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 16992
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Ontario

Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:22 AM

Any Celestron GPS that is returning a date 19.7 years in the past will be fixed by the new firmware. Note that the firmware is still in testing (beta testing). If any problems are discovered, further changes and testing will be necessary before it is officially released.

As Noah said, Celestron needs volunteers to test. In particular, if you have an affected CPC or CN-16 module, I would encourage you to sign up at TeamCelestron.com

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
https://www.NexStarSite.com

waytogo.gif


  • Noah4x4 likes this

#70 NenoVento

NenoVento

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 52
  • Joined: 02 Jan 2019
  • Loc: Tenerife (Canary Islands, Spain)

Posted 24 April 2019 - 04:07 PM

I've installed the beta firm in the HC (a non plus nexstar one) of my CPC and tested the startup with the GPS on outside my home and the issue with the date was solved (hurra!). I still need to make a proper aligment and such but, as far as I can see everything works as usual. Great job Celestron!!!
NV
  • emflocater likes this

#71 emflocater

emflocater

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Clarkson, N.Y.

Posted 24 April 2019 - 04:36 PM

Just curious if anyone knows, but if trying the beta (for CN-16 and version 4 hand control on a CG5-ASGT Mount) I assume its a Firmware update to the Hand Controller only (no Motor Control Update) directed for the GPS. My concern if trying the beta is... will it change or mess up anything else other than the GPS or risk mount being blocked? I assume the Firmware Update method is done the same usual way? 

 

P.S. Not sure if TeamCelestron has the Firmware Update GPS for the Version 4 Nexstar Hand Controller as yet but my big question is if they do and I try the Firmware Update will I lose all my previous plugged in parameters such as backlash settings, Limits etc.??

 

Cheers

Don


Edited by emflocater, 24 April 2019 - 05:04 PM.


#72 emflocater

emflocater

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Clarkson, N.Y.

Posted 24 April 2019 - 04:46 PM

Well I just signed up with TeamCelestron. Hopefully tonight when I have some time and get brave enough I can try and see if the firmware works.

Cheers

Don



#73 Michael_Swanson

Michael_Swanson

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003

Posted 24 April 2019 - 06:41 PM

Just curious if anyone knows, but if trying the beta (for CN-16 and version 4 hand control on a CG5-ASGT Mount) I assume its a Firmware update to the Hand Controller only (no Motor Control Update) directed for the GPS. My concern if trying the beta is... will it change or mess up anything else other than the GPS or risk mount being blocked? I assume the Firmware Update method is done the same usual way? 

 

P.S. Not sure if TeamCelestron has the Firmware Update GPS for the Version 4 Nexstar Hand Controller as yet but my big question is if they do and I try the Firmware Update will I lose all my previous plugged in parameters such as backlash settings, Limits etc.??

 

Cheers

Don

Hi Don,

 

This is firmware for the HC only.  Yes, as mentioned above beta firmware is now available for both the version 4 and the NexStar+ HCs.  As with all firmware updates to the HC, most settings are lost.  The exception is the few that are stored in the motor control such as backlash settings and PEC recording (for the mounts with Periodic Error Correction).

 

As far as is there any danger in using beta (under testing) firmware:  yes, there is always some danger.  For example, some previous MC beta firmware has caused mount collisions (optical tube hitting the mount) on GEM mounts.  A time or two beta firmware has rendered the HC unusable and the HC required a return to Celestron for more invasive reprogramming.  That is why it is only released via TeamCelestron.com.  When you register at that site you receive a message outlining potential harm and what Celestron will do to remedy things if you experience problems.  Additionally you are directed to not share the firmware with others so that they must register at TeamCelestron.com to receive the instructions and protections.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com


Edited by Michael_Swanson, 24 April 2019 - 06:42 PM.

  • emflocater likes this

#74 emflocater

emflocater

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Clarkson, N.Y.

Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:10 PM

Hi Don,

 

This is firmware for the HC only.  Yes, as mentioned above beta firmware is now available for both the version 4 and the NexStar+ HCs.  As with all firmware updates to the HC, most settings are lost.  The exception is the few that are stored in the motor control such as backlash settings and PEC recording (for the mounts with Periodic Error Correction).

 

As far as is there any danger in using beta (under testing) firmware:  yes, there is always some danger.  For example, some previous MC beta firmware has caused mount collisions (optical tube hitting the mount) on GEM mounts.  A time or two beta firmware has rendered the HC unusable and the HC required a return to Celestron for more invasive reprogramming.  That is why it is only released via TeamCelestron.com.  When you register at that site you receive a message outlining potential harm and what Celestron will do to remedy things if you experience problems.  Additionally you are directed to not share the firmware with others so that they must register at TeamCelestron.com to receive the instructions and protections.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com

Thank you Mike for the great detailed info. 

Cheers

Don



#75 Digital Don

Digital Don

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2588
  • Joined: 20 Jan 2004
  • Loc: Manteno, IL

Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:22 PM

Since I recently purchased a couple of Nexstar+ hand controls, I thought I'd try the beta firmware updates on the TeamCelestron.com site for my 'old' units. It is necessary to use HC Update for the installation.

 

The firmware installed properly on both of my original version 4.xx CPC controls, and on the control for my NexStar SE mount.  Both the CPC's internal GPS and the external CN-16 I use with the SE displayed the correct date.

 

I did not update my AS-GT mount hand control since there does not seem to be a specific version listed for that mount.  Mike did mention that the  Nexstar+ hand control can be used with the AS-GT mount (and be updated using CFM)  but even CFM doesn't list the AS-GT mount specifically.

 

I'm going to wait for the public release before updating my new hand controls just to be sure.

 

Don usa.gif

 

 




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics