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GPS Rollover Problems!

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#126 robbin

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 02:09 PM

Definitely a catch-22!  Good luck with the new account.



#127 robbin

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:33 PM

Just wanted to report that I updated both my Nexstar+ and Starsense controllers.  The date issues appeared solved.  I had only a brief session with the Nexstar controller but did not find any new issues.



#128 mclewis1

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 07:49 PM

Just wanted to report that I updated both my Nexstar+ and Starsense controllers.  The date issues appeared solved.  I had only a brief session with the Nexstar controller but did not find any new issues.

What firmware version numbers?



#129 Callisto9993

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 09:34 PM

Hi Mike, 

I have read everything on this thread since my N11 GPS kept offering me the wrong alignment stars 2 nights ago. I can see now that there is HOPE!!!

I will be brief: Nexstar 11GPS, purchased in 2002. I have your book and on page 102 it tells me about the versions I have on the HC 1st line=2.2  4.5  4.5, 2nd line= 2.2  2.2.

I have always run the scope from pure 12VDC batteries. I have never had a single mechanical or electrical problem with the scope.

When attempting GPS Alignment it offers me the "wrong stars". Although the Time appears to be correct, the HC shows "GPS Linked  09/27/01". This is NOT 19.7 years off as had been mentioned.

 

Should I follow the workaround advice in this thread, of turning off the GPS?

 

Thanks for the help!! And to the rest of you too. This was my first telescope and it's been great, my eyesight, well, that's another story!!



#130 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 01:45 AM

Hi Mike, 

I have read everything on this thread since my N11 GPS kept offering me the wrong alignment stars 2 nights ago. I can see now that there is HOPE!!!

I will be brief: Nexstar 11GPS, purchased in 2002. I have your book and on page 102 it tells me about the versions I have on the HC 1st line=2.2  4.5  4.5, 2nd line= 2.2  2.2.

I have always run the scope from pure 12VDC batteries. I have never had a single mechanical or electrical problem with the scope.

When attempting GPS Alignment it offers me the "wrong stars". Although the Time appears to be correct, the HC shows "GPS Linked  09/27/01". This is NOT 19.7 years off as had been mentioned.

 

Should I follow the workaround advice in this thread, of turning off the GPS?

 

Thanks for the help!! And to the rest of you too. This was my first telescope and it's been great, my eyesight, well, that's another story!!

Hi,

 

Thanks for buying the book!

 

Hmmm, that does sound like the GPS receiver is not handling the rollover correctly though this is the first NexStar 8/9.25/11 GPS to have reported a problem.  Having read through the manual from Motorola (the likely manufacturer of your GPS receiver) it may have failed to account for rollover due to some error with the non-volatile memory that receiver uses to keep track of the date it last synced up with the satellites.  I don't think there is a way to recover from that and most likely Celestron's HC firmware fix will NOT work in this case (as it adds 19.7 years to the date).  I would recommend you try powering off and on and letting it sit for an hour to ensure it links with multiple satellites.  Then power off and on and let it link once more to see what date is returned.  If it is still 17.5 years in the past I'm afraid you will be stuck turning off GPS in the HC's Utilities menu and manually entering date and time.

 

And, we have just this week had someone test the use of the newer SkySync and PixSoft's StarGPS-NX receivers when plugged into the AUX port on a NexStar 8/9.25/11 GPS mount and they do NOT work.  Something changed in some subtle way with the communication protocol between the older generation GPS modules and the new.  You CAN successfully use StarGPS-NX when plugged into the serial port of a version 4 or NexStar+ hand control.  See the StarGPS-NX Original section of this review at my website:

https://www.nexstars.../StarGPS-NX.htm

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com



#131 robbin

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 02:00 AM

What firmware version numbers?

Nexstar: 5.31.9102;  01.20.19116



#132 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 06:36 AM

Nexstar: 5.31.9102; 01.20.19116


To avoid possible confusion, these are still beta versions only available if you register at TeamCelestron.com

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
https://www.NexStarSite.com

#133 Callisto9993

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 11:12 AM

Hi,

 

Thanks for buying the book!

 

Hmmm, that does sound like the GPS receiver is not handling the rollover correctly though this is the first NexStar 8/9.25/11 GPS to have reported a problem.  Having read through the manual from Motorola (the likely manufacturer of your GPS receiver) it may have failed to account for rollover due to some error with the non-volatile memory that receiver uses to keep track of the date it last synced up with the satellites.  I don't think there is a way to recover from that and most likely Celestron's HC firmware fix will NOT work in this case (as it adds 19.7 years to the date).  I would recommend you try powering off and on and letting it sit for an hour to ensure it links with multiple satellites.  Then power off and on and let it link once more to see what date is returned.  If it is still 17.5 years in the past I'm afraid you will be stuck turning off GPS in the HC's Utilities menu and manually entering date and time.

 

And, we have just this week had someone test the use of the newer SkySync and PixSoft's StarGPS-NX receivers when plugged into the AUX port on a NexStar 8/9.25/11 GPS mount and they do NOT work.  Something changed in some subtle way with the communication protocol between the older generation GPS modules and the new.  You CAN successfully use StarGPS-NX when plugged into the serial port of a version 4 or NexStar+ hand control.  See the StarGPS-NX Original section of this review at my website:

https://www.nexstars.../StarGPS-NX.htm

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com

Thank you for the info. I have a very restricted sky aperture here at my house. I can just pick up Polaris over my roof (2 story house), and have a view of the East and West Horizons that is reduced by about 30 degrees each direction., I also have a Southern Horizon reduction by about 25 degrees. In an urban area I have been able to live with this because I am in the Sacramento light dome and have a view of the entire ecliptic at really the best viewing angles, considering. I am making the best of what I got! However I'm now thinking that my latest aperture restriction, a gazebo has given me.....Aperture Deficiency (AD).

When it stops raining....I'm heading for the field! 



#134 markb

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 12:04 PM

On Callisto9993's problem, I would check the inner arm covers or base cover to see which GPS is present, a pair in the base or one in the arm.

Going with Mike's educated judgment that it is likely the two boards in the base, the outermost one being a Motorola oncore 12 board, it is possible that the non-volatile memory or the ROM has been corrupted.

If it is the Motorola board, they are available in the Surplus Market, perhaps without a battery holder.

I also might, after trying Mike's long term sat sync (i have had it cure bad dates on weak/dead battery boards), retry it after removing the battery overnight and restarting for an extended sync with a new battery or no battery. I suspect a bad battery migh pull circiut voltages down, at least in my arm mounted unit. I will remote the battery after snipping the leads on the old one on my next AZ trip to test this. It is very resistent to linking unless on for a longer period.

My Motorola boarded base had started to give a nonsense digit in the year making the GPS unuseable. I simply replaced the Motorola board and now it works perfectly.

Callisto9993 can PM about getting one of my extra boards, with nattery clip and remote battery wires added. It turned out my second GPS base has the arm mounted board.

Mike would know, but I think the Celestron interface board for the early GPS, and the GPS board for the later or mounted GPS, or not available. But if this is the Motorola board, it is an easy fix.

The other alternative is to do what I've been using just for control, which is the get a Star BT adapter from Astro - gadget.com and SkySafari Pro 6 for about $50 total and use it with an Android tablet or phone, and a rs232 serial phone plug HC. It will pick up the GPS accurate location and time from the phone or tablet, which has to be manually entered into the hand control with the GPS turned off. I use this solely for the tablet control, but I've tested that it does not transmit the data to the hand controller.

Mike, any word on when the permanent HC reflash is available from Celestron? I have ended up with several spare HCs I want to update before listing.

#135 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 08:07 PM

<snip>
Mike would know, but I think the Celestron interface board for the early GPS, and the GPS board for the later or mounted GPS, or not available. But if this is the Motorola board, it is an easy fix.

<snip> 

Mike, any word on when the permanent HC reflash is available from Celestron? I have ended up with several spare HCs I want to update before listing.

Correct, I don't think Celestron has any of those boards available.

 

No word yet on a potential release date for the updated firmware.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com



#136 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 12:25 AM

Hi Mike, 

I have read everything on this thread since my N11 GPS kept offering me the wrong alignment stars 2 nights ago. I can see now that there is HOPE!!!

I will be brief: Nexstar 11GPS, purchased in 2002. I have your book and on page 102 it tells me about the versions I have on the HC 1st line=2.2  4.5  4.5, 2nd line= 2.2  2.2.

I have always run the scope from pure 12VDC batteries. I have never had a single mechanical or electrical problem with the scope.

When attempting GPS Alignment it offers me the "wrong stars". Although the Time appears to be correct, the HC shows "GPS Linked  09/27/01". This is NOT 19.7 years off as had been mentioned.

 

Should I follow the workaround advice in this thread, of turning off the GPS?

 

Thanks for the help!! And to the rest of you too. This was my first telescope and it's been great, my eyesight, well, that's another story!!

Hi again,

 

Turns out I just got an email from a NexStar 8 GPS owner with the exact same issue.  Do you happen to have NexRemote configured and available?

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com



#137 junomike

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:36 AM

Strange as my early (2004) NS11GPS works as it did before the roll-over.



#138 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:47 AM

Strange as my early (2004) NS11GPS works as it did before the roll-over.

Yes, it has me baffled as well.  I can think of some scenarios that might at least trigger it, though I haven't come up with anything that explains why the date is 17.5 years behind (vice 19.7).

 

I've asked one of Celestron's software engineers from the NexStar GPS mount era to take a look into it as well.

 

Oh, and one thing I didn't mention in that last post - the N8GPS owner get this same bad behavior with both the version 4 and NexStar+ hand controls.  So, this is definitely coming right from the GPS module, it is not something specific to the version 2.2 hand control Callisto is using.

 

And...if one were to use the new (still beta) firmware on one of these scopes, it would probably return a date 2.2 years in the future...

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.NexStarSite.com



#139 Callisto9993

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 09:36 AM

Hi again,

 

Turns out I just got an email from a NexStar 8 GPS owner with the exact same issue.  Do you happen to have NexRemote configured and available?

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com

NO, I've been running strictly "Stock", out of the box. Unfortunately it's been raining and mostly overcast so I haven't been able to do a thing lately. When our Sacramento weather returns to normal, I plan on doing all the "dumb" stuff first. (I'm very good at that sort of thing for some reason? I'll ask my wife why that is.)

I will: 1) Move the scope to a location that is not "in a canyon", 2) do a more extended off/on acquisition regime and then....3) I have never changed the GPS battery. I should do that. Can you supply me with the link for purchasing that battery??. Any other dumb stuff I can try?


Edited by Callisto9993, 18 May 2019 - 10:00 AM.


#140 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:02 PM

NO, I've been running strictly "Stock", out of the box. Unfortunately it's been raining and mostly overcast so I haven't been able to do a thing lately. When our Sacramento weather returns to normal, I plan on doing all the "dumb" stuff first. (I'm very good at that sort of thing for some reason? I'll ask my wife why that is.)
I will: 1) Move the scope to a location that is not "in a canyon", 2) do a more extended off/on acquisition regime and then....3) I have never changed the GPS battery. I should do that. Can you supply me with the link for purchasing that battery??. Any other dumb stuff I can try?


Probably best if you just standby for now, you are not going to be able to fix it. We have determined that there is a combination of hardware on the second generation of NexStar GPS that is affected by the rollover problem but the date is mangled in different ways...

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
https://www.NexStarSite.com
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#141 rj1970

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:25 PM

Probably best if you just standby for now, you are not going to be able to fix it. We have determined that there is a combination of hardware on the second generation of NexStar GPS that is affected by the rollover problem but the date is mangled in different ways...

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
https://www.NexStarSite.com

Hello Michael,

 

I have a NexStar 9.25 GPS with a NexStar+ hand control that I haven't used for several months.

Today (May 20th, 2019) I couldn't get it aligned and found that it is reporting the date as "10/04/5" (October 4th, 2005?).

Firmware versions are HC: NXS 5.24.4200, MC: 4.06 4.06.

 

Is this related to the GPS rollover and will the hand control firmware update fix it?

 

Kind regards,

Ruud.



#142 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 09:01 PM

Hello Michael,

 

I have a NexStar 9.25 GPS with a NexStar+ hand control that I haven't used for several months.

Today (May 20th, 2019) I couldn't get it aligned and found that it is reporting the date as "10/04/5" (October 4th, 2005?).

Firmware versions are HC: NXS 5.24.4200, MC: 4.06 4.06.

 

Is this related to the GPS rollover and will the hand control firmware update fix it?

 

Kind regards,

Ruud.

Hi Ruud,

 

First off, a year of 2005 is generally what is displayed prior to the GPS receiver linking with the satellites.  If you haven't used it a several months the first GPS link can take several minutes.

 

Second, based on these latest reports, it is very likely all NexStar 9.25 GPS mounts will experience the rollover problem.

 

Finally, yes, the hand control firmware update will eventually fix this, but there are some complications being worked out on the NexStar GPS series.  It might be late summer before the fix works for those mounts.  I'll let everyone know more once there are definite answers.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com



#143 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 09:51 PM

Regarding the NexStar 8/9.25/11 GPS mounts:

 

We have confirmed with one of Celestron's previous software engineers that NexStar 8/9.25/11 GPS mounts with a second generation GPS receiver will be affected by the rollover event.  Surfacing of this problem was delayed due to the way the GPS receiver manufacturer attempted (nearly 20 years ago) to deal with the rollover.  The current symptom is that the date reported after a GPS link is 17.5 years in the past; later this year it will change to 19.7 years in the past. 

 

Celestron has been working on a firmware update for the version 4 and NexStar+ hand control (HC) to deal with this issue on the CPC series (many of which are also affected).  This update will work for the NexStar 8/9.25/11 GPS but maybe not until later this year when the GPS receiver slides back to 19.7 years in the past.  Once more details are available on this, I'll let you know.  Note though that this would require you have a version 4 or NexStar+ hand control.  Besides fixing this GPS issue, some new features have been added.  You might find my (free) version 4 user's guide useful in learning about the new features:
https://www.nexstars...4UsersGuide.pdf

 

In the interim, if your scope is affected, you will need to go to the HC menu, Utilities and turn GPS OFF.  You will then need to manually enter date and time each time you align the scope.

 

NOTE - version 4 and NexStar+ remove the "north and level" alignment routines due to a legal suit by Meade.  The only way to keep those routines on an affected scope is to stay with a version 1.6/2.2 HC and manually enter the date and time.

 

And I have updated the applicable article at my website:
https://www.nexstars...GPSRollover.htm

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.NexStarSite.com


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#144 rj1970

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 03:20 AM

Hi Ruud,

 

First off, a year of 2005 is generally what is displayed prior to the GPS receiver linking with the satellites.  If you haven't used it a several months the first GPS link can take several minutes.

 

Second, based on these latest reports, it is very likely all NexStar 9.25 GPS mounts will experience the rollover problem.

 

Finally, yes, the hand control firmware update will eventually fix this, but there are some complications being worked out on the NexStar GPS series.  It might be late summer before the fix works for those mounts.  I'll let everyone know more once there are definite answers.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com

Hello Michael,

 

Thanks for your answer. The GPS status was reported "GPS linked" when I checked for the date - I should have mentioned that.

 

Somehow my scope is reporting a date 13.6 years in the past, not 19.7 or 17.5. Perhaps it is reporting a firmware date?

 

Kind regards,

Ruud.



#145 markb

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 08:55 PM

Mike, thanks for the latest info on the 2d gen GPS8/9.5/11 issue, and fix timing issues! The 17.5 year error is a real curveball.

#146 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 08:58 PM

Hi Ruud,

 

It could be a different version of GPS receiver in the mount.  Let me see if anyone at Celestron has an idea of what might be going on.

 

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com



#147 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 11:11 PM

Hello Michael,

 

I have a NexStar 9.25 GPS with a NexStar+ hand control that I haven't used for several months.

Today (May 20th, 2019) I couldn't get it aligned and found that it is reporting the date as "10/04/5" (October 4th, 2005?).

Firmware versions are HC: NXS 5.24.4200, MC: 4.06 4.06.

 

Is this related to the GPS rollover and will the hand control firmware update fix it?

 

Kind regards,

Ruud.

Okay, it turns out this caused by the same GPS problem that generates dates that are 17.5 years in the past but with a slightly different GPS interface board.  So, it will be fixed by the new firmware.


Edited by Michael_Swanson, 20 May 2019 - 11:37 PM.


#148 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 12:08 AM

CELESTRON HAS RELEASED THE FIRMWARE FIX

 

As of May 20, 2019, Celestron has released official firmware to address the GPS rollover issue.

 

NexStar Version 4 Hand Control

Follow normal procedures utilizing HCupdate as discussed here:

https://www.nexstars...wToVersion4.htm

There are four new firmware files as follows:

  • NXS 4.22 - suitable for all NexStar-driven alt-az mounts (NexStar GPS, SE, SLT, CPC, etc.) where older versions are displaying a date 19.7 years in the past or where the date is displayed as mm/yy/5 
  • GEM 4.22 - suitable for all NexStar-driven German EQ mounts (AS-GT, CGEM, etc.) where older versions are displaying a date 19.7 years in the past
  • SLT_LCM 4.22 - suitable for the SLT and LCM mounts (though I recommend the NXS 4.22 on those mounts as well) where older versions are displaying a date 19.7 years in the past
  • NXS 98.22 - a temporary version for the NexStar GPS mounts currently displaying a date 17.5 years in the past.  Use this firmware from May 2019 through approximately Aug 17, 2019.  On Aug 17, 2019, switch to NXS 4.22.

 

NexStar+ Hand Control

Follow normal procedures utilizing HCupdate as discussed here:

https://www.nexstars...NexStarPlus.htm

 

This will fix all instances for all mounts except NexStar GPS mounts currently displaying a date 17.5 years in the past.  For those mounts, load the new firmware but you will need to turn off GPS in the hand control menu and manually enter the date and time until Aug 17, 2019, at which time the new firmware will start working to correct the date.

 

The StarSense hand control firmware is still under development.

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar Users Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.nexstarsite.com


Edited by Michael_Swanson, 21 May 2019 - 12:41 AM.

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#149 rj1970

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 02:42 AM

Okay, it turns out this caused by the same GPS problem that generates dates that are 17.5 years in the past but with a slightly different GPS interface board.  So, it will be fixed by the new firmware.

Thank you very much Michael for keeping all of us up-to-date on the issue. I'm happy to manually enter date and time for the time being, knowing that GPS will be fixed in three months time.

 

Kind regards,

Ruud.



#150 MikeBOKC

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 05:38 AM

Is it correct that one could simply purchase a new hand controller to fix the issue without an elaborate download?




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