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#26 Starkid2u

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:57 AM

I am from Upstate N.Y. and I am always nervous about driving around Suffern.
Never seen so many people zip past me in 30 mph zones when I am driving over 30 myself.
They seem like they have to pull in front of me so close that they almost take the paint off of my bumper.
So it might be more appropriate to call out City drivers than N.Y. drivers.
I work for the NYS Thruway and put huge miles in everyday and I hate driving near the big city.

Although NYC area drivers are the most aggressive, drivers here are the most incompetent, bar none. And before you get into a huff because I just slammed the same place we both live in, look at how MANY LAYWER ADS there are here! They're making a good living because you people can't drive. I see it every day. Even my 11 year old son knows it! Now THAT'S bad. I've been to other cities and I've hardly ever seen ads for lawyers like we have here. It is what it is. Be careful whose glass house you throw that rock at...

 

STARKID2U



#27 Phil Cowell

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:50 AM

Although NYC area drivers are the most aggressive, drivers here are the most incompetent, bar none. And before you get into a huff because I just slammed the same place we both live in, look at how MANY LAYWER ADS there are here! They're making a good living because you people can't drive. I see it every day. Even my 11 year old son knows it! Now THAT'S bad. I've been to other cities and I've hardly ever seen ads for lawyers like we have here. It is what it is. Be careful whose glass house you throw that rock at...

 

STARKID2U

Agree with you there. There is also the Pick up Truck drivers who drive at 80 in the snow and ice. The shucks Bubba I got 4 wheel drive crew. On ice I have 4 wheel brakes but it makes no difference. Always chuckle when you drive past them, spun out after they had been bouncing on the guard rail a few times and up to their windows in the median snow.


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#28 TOMDEY

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 09:53 AM

We cannot control what other drivers do.  We can only control what we do and relieve a great deal of anxiety along the way. People are crazy, some are struggling with personal demons, some have guns, some simply don't pay much attention while driving.  Just getting out of the way and letting faster traffic go by is often the simplest solution to preserving our own personal space on the road. 

 

If you are in the fast lane on a freeway or a single lane mountain road with no one in front of you and a crazed lunatic scraping your rear bumper, you are part of the problem.  Just move over and let them go.  If they drive over their head and find themselves in a ditch, that is their problem.  Just let them go.

RELATED ANECDOTE: Driving to work pre-twilight darkness, meandering country roads thru very hilly woods, 55mph limit with continuous deer signs. Guy on my tail, this >||< close, so I slow down and keep far right. He BLOWS PAST, pedal to the metal... gets a hundred yards ahead, still accelerating, now going maybe 75mph. Then BLAMMO!  He hits a big deer so hard that the deer literally explodes into giant pieces, spinning like a top, with pieces falling off, in the road in front of me. I'm able to deftly decelerate and avoid that, and continue on... looking to see what the guy ahead is going to do next. Even with that big pickup, the deer must have done extensive damage. Astoundingly, the guy just keeps blowing on down the road! About one mile farther, up-hill grade... I catch up and now he's going 55, 50, 45, 40... steam bellowing and something dragging from the undercarriage... he's finally pulling over... I drive on by and head into work; arrive unscathed, greet the sunrise and have a nice, relaxing day at the lab.

 

Moral: It's more important to get to work safely, than barely on time. A lot of people habitually leave for work "needing" to speed, to make it there on time. Just allowing 10% more commute time makes for a much more relaxing / safer drive in.    Tom

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#29 Alex McConahay

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:21 PM

In California one can be cited for going too slow in the fast lanes even if they are going speed limit. The officers will not in fact do it, but the law is there.

Alex

#30 Joe F Gafford

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:49 PM

In California one can be cited for going too slow in the fast lanes even if they are going speed limit. The officers will not in fact do it, but the law is there.

Alex

Going too slow in the passing lane is called impeding traffic in most states. You can be cited. I've been to Florida and Seattle since retiring and seen how the locals drive in their areas. Louisiana is a speed trap around Baton Rouge and New Orleans, especially when it is foggy on the Basin Bridge. Californians pass on the right lane, even in Florida! My local Front Range drivers transfers up to 4 lanes to the exit lane while texting in one fell swoop! I call this "Doing the Howard Cosell". Howard Cosell was a NYC lawyer turned sportscaster who did the color commentary during the Monday night football games. One of his sayings was a slower staccato and nasal "And,-He-Goes-All-The-Way!" during the replay of a big play that made it past the goal line. Not safe people! You can be pulled over for texting or doing other distractions here.

 

Joe



#31 Alex McConahay

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:55 PM

Makes me feel old that I knew about Cossell without the explanation.

Alex
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#32 Phil Cowell

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 05:51 PM

In California one can be cited for going too slow in the fast lanes even if they are going speed limit. The officers will not in fact do it, but the law is there.

Alex

It’s a shame it’s not enforced country wide.


Edited by Phil Cowell, 11 April 2019 - 05:51 PM.

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#33 gillmj24

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 06:11 AM

I think the restriction is doing the work of driving. Letting someone else drive is OK.

Incorrect. Riding is also servile work, which thou shalt not do on the Sabbath.

 

Last year on Sunday i saw a few hitchhikers. Not this year on Sunday though.

 

My GPS must've taken me through the nice part of Suffern. No garbage just very nice homes


Edited by gillmj24, 12 April 2019 - 06:13 AM.


#34 kksmith

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 06:12 AM

Makes me feel old that I knew about Cossell without the explanation.

Alex

Cossell and Muhammad Ali together - there was a pair for the ages. 

 

Ken


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#35 roscoe

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:28 AM


If you are in the fast lane on a freeway or a single lane mountain road with no one in front of you and a crazed lunatic scraping your rear bumper, you are part of the problem.  Just move over and let them go.  If they drive over their head and find themselves in a ditch, that is their problem.  Just let them go.

I agree and respectfully disagree.....  If a driver is in the 'fast lane' and impeding traffic flow, then it is best if they pull to the right lane.  However, if it is a single-lane roadway, and the driver is driving at or quite near the posted speed limit, they are in no way 'the problem'  The only problem is that the person behind wants to drive faster.  The speed limit is just that, the limit.  Most interstates have posted minimum speeds - often 20mph below the posted speeds, but there is no law that says you have to drive 40 (or 50) at all times in a 40mph zone.  Yes, it is courteous to pull to the right when safe to let others pass if you feel the need to drive more slowly or your vehicle won't go that fast on a hill - loaded trucks come to mind here - and in some places, there are even rules on long upgrades about pulling over if the line of vehicles behind exceeds a certain number, but..... moving over to let them go is courteous, but not required.



#36 sickfish

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:37 AM

I live and drive in Ma.

Nothing shocks me anymore.

Brake checks are a way of life here.

We are a "heart attack nation".

Everybody is more important than you.

Their time is more valuable than yours.

Get used to it, its only going to get worse.


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#37 sickfish

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:38 AM

Although I was in Florida recently, their traffic and drivers are bad.



#38 Phil Cowell

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:54 AM

I agree and respectfully disagree.....  If a driver is in the 'fast lane' and impeding traffic flow, then it is best if they pull to the right lane.  However, if it is a single-lane roadway, and the driver is driving at or quite near the posted speed limit, they are in no way 'the problem'  The only problem is that the person behind wants to drive faster.  The speed limit is just that, the limit.  Most interstates have posted minimum speeds - often 20mph below the posted speeds, but there is no law that says you have to drive 40 (or 50) at all times in a 40mph zone.  Yes, it is courteous to pull to the right when safe to let others pass if you feel the need to drive more slowly or your vehicle won't go that fast on a hill - loaded trucks come to mind here - and in some places, there are even rules on long upgrades about pulling over if the line of vehicles behind exceeds a certain number, but..... moving over to let them go is courteous, but not required.

My advice to you is don’t drive on the autobahn with that mind set. People flash their lights you get out of the way. Most countries have that law. The outside lane is for passing only and then you move back in to the inside lane. In Alaska if you have 5 vehicles your slowing up if I remember your are required to move over and get out of the way. If folks want to sit out there below the speed limit, they really shouldn’t get upset when someone assumes they have been drinking and calls in their plate number to the local state troopers. 

At that point they do become “the problem”.


Edited by Phil Cowell, 12 April 2019 - 10:55 AM.


#39 roscoe

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:30 AM

again, I'm not talking about pottering about at 15 miles below the speed limit, I am talking about driving within a mile or two of the posted limit.  The autobahn has no posted speed limit.... and that's Germany, not the US. And, here,  also, you can be ticketed for obstructing traffic in the center or left lane of an interstate, which is when you think about it a bit strange that you can get a ticket for driving at the speed limit.... however only a fool...of which there are many, it seems, would set the cruise control for 64 (if the limit is 65) and drive on down the left lane of the interstate......   Heck, you can get rear-ended for driving 64 in the RIGHT lane nowadays.

 

It does puzzle me, though, that so many people see a sign that says 'speed limit 40', and assume that is the MINIMUM legal speed for that roadway.....

 

or as my friend the local police officer so loves to say...."so what part of that big flashing red-lights sign that says 'school zone, speed limit 25' was so hard for you to understand?"  He recently told me the current record is 72mph....... and a guy running in the mid-60's....with a school bus entering the road as he flew by..... was so angry at being stopped, he (police officer) called for backup.

 

PS don't get me wrong, I routinely drive 5 or 10 miles over.... and routinely pout when I encounter someone who isn't..... but.....



#40 Phil Cowell

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:22 PM

again, I'm not talking about pottering about at 15 miles below the speed limit, I am talking about driving within a mile or two of the posted limit.  The autobahn has no posted speed limit.... and that's Germany, not the US. And, here,  also, you can be ticketed for obstructing traffic in the center or left lane of an interstate, which is when you think about it a bit strange that you can get a ticket for driving at the speed limit.... however only a fool...of which there are many, it seems, would set the cruise control for 64 (if the limit is 65) and drive on down the left lane of the interstate......   Heck, you can get rear-ended for driving 64 in the RIGHT lane nowadays.

 

It does puzzle me, though, that so many people see a sign that says 'speed limit 40', and assume that is the MINIMUM legal speed for that roadway.....

 

or as my friend the local police officer so loves to say...."so what part of that big flashing red-lights sign that says 'school zone, speed limit 25' was so hard for you to understand?"  He recently told me the current record is 72mph....... and a guy running in the mid-60's....with a school bus entering the road as he flew by..... was so angry at being stopped, he (police officer) called for backup.

 

PS don't get me wrong, I routinely drive 5 or 10 miles over.... and routinely pout when I encounter someone who isn't..... but.....

Areas of the autobahn do have posted speed limits. If a driver sits in the outside lane on a main highway, with the ability to move back in.....well there’s a very good chance they have been drinking. Especially when the universal please move over light flash yields their indication of their IQ. Hands free is a wonderful thing. Make the call, hang back, then watch their inconvenience begin. Speeding in school zones and the like deserves to get punished.


Edited by Phil Cowell, 12 April 2019 - 12:23 PM.


#41 Alex McConahay

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:31 PM

that rule about being in the left lane only for passing is quite common in Europe. It is not just an autobahn rule, but all over. 

 

But it is not part of the American way of doing things.  I've seen it posted as such as a few places in America, but not generally.

 

 

Alex



#42 roscoe

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:08 PM

Mostly, in Massachusetts, it often appears that any lane that is open is the fast lane...including the breakdown lane sometimes!  the 'move right' thing seems not to exist.....



#43 Phil Cowell

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 05:37 PM

I grew up in Europe and agree. If your cruising at 120 MPH and you have the idiot doing 60 MPH staying in the outside lane, thats like driving at a wall at 60 MPH. The Germany police officers are very efficient in getting that point across, to the slow driver. 

 

that rule about being in the left lane only for passing is quite common in Europe. It is not just an autobahn rule, but all over. 

 

But it is not part of the American way of doing things.  I've seen it posted as such as a few places in America, but not generally.

 

 

Alex



#44 dustyc

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 11:05 AM

Nightmare drivers?

Everywhere in the Phoenix area. People move here from all over the country and bring their "expert driving skills" with them.



#45 Astroman007

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 01:44 PM

I think the restriction is doing the work of driving. Letting someone else drive is OK.

Something like "using the unbelievers (who are going to hell anyway) in the service of the elect?"



#46 Cajundaddy

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 05:03 PM

I agree and respectfully disagree.....  If a driver is in the 'fast lane' and impeding traffic flow, then it is best if they pull to the right lane.  However, if it is a single-lane roadway, and the driver is driving at or quite near the posted speed limit, they are in no way 'the problem'  The only problem is that the person behind wants to drive faster.  The speed limit is just that, the limit.  Most interstates have posted minimum speeds - often 20mph below the posted speeds, but there is no law that says you have to drive 40 (or 50) at all times in a 40mph zone.  Yes, it is courteous to pull to the right when safe to let others pass if you feel the need to drive more slowly or your vehicle won't go that fast on a hill - loaded trucks come to mind here - and in some places, there are even rules on long upgrades about pulling over if the line of vehicles behind exceeds a certain number, but..... moving over to let them go is courteous, but not required.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Here is mine:

 

We cannot control the lunatic speeder tailgating and scraping our rear bumper but we can control what we do to make a situation more/less safe.  This is why so many single lane roads are posted: "slower traffic use turnouts".  We will not receive a ticket if we are turnout shy, we will make the road less safe. 

 

By obstinately driving at the posted speed limit with no one in front of us and faster traffic behind, *we* play a role in making the road more dangerous by not moving over or using turnouts.  It may force the speeder to make a very aggressive pass that could collect us in a head-on collision.  Impeding faster traffic *is* part of the problem as it sets up an aggressive or road rage situation by attempting to control the driver behind us. 

 

Using an available turnout as soon as it becomes available is the simplest and safest way to address faster traffic behind, and allows us to drive at whatever pace we feel comfortable for the conditions.  In CA we are only required by law to use a turnout if there are 5 or more cars behind.  This is unfortunate as most of the world requires a driver to use a turnout as often as necessary to allow faster traffic to pass safely.  The 5 car rule creates a sense of entitlement that makes single lane roads less safe.

 

In my own travels I drive single lane mountain roads a lot.  Sometimes in the family car at posted speeds, sometimes in an RV at below posted speeds, sometimes in a well prepared Porsche.  Honestly the Porsche could negotiate most mountain roads at 2x the speed limit with no muss, no fuss.  Still I prefer to drive it within the grey areas of the speed limit to avoid a chat with law enforcement.  I practice what I preach and give and take turnouts as often as possible.  The last thing I want is some bozo speeder attached to my bumper, BAC at 0.2 in an argument with his wife, with a 9mm in the glove box.  I'd rather just let him go.

 

YMMV


Edited by Cajundaddy, 14 April 2019 - 11:16 AM.


#47 Alex McConahay

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 05:18 PM

Yeah, what Cajundaddy says is true. Just because we have a right to drive at a certain speed does not mean it is a good idea to do so. Nobody owns the road. Not the speed freak, nor the buttoned down "as long as I am near the speed limit, I can slow down everybody else. 

 

Unless you are a uniformed officer in the course of your duties, do not try to make other drivers obey your speed limit. 

 

Alex



#48 t_image

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 08:58 PM

Regardless of the circumstances of the OP situation,

there is value in humility of admitting you don't know the actual circumstances of the "tailgater."

 

I had a friend who lost a fiance because her heart arrested in a rural location and they tried to drive as fast and safe as possible to meet an ambulance in-route while someone was doing CPR in the back of vehicle......

Even with honks and light flashes to get people to move out of the way, there were too many cars they faced (ahead) that didn't respect their urgency.

The drive time took longer than the golden hour...

Poor guy couldn't get over the unwillingness of the drivers to get out of the fast/passing lane......

Never assume......


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#49 roscoe

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 07:47 AM

I'm sorry, but yes, pulling over when safe is a nice thing to do, but...... there is a significant sub-message to this thread that says that a person OBEYING THE LAW is the problem, that those of us who merely drive 5 miles an hour over the posted speed should get the h-e-double ll out of the way of anybody who drank too much coffee or left for work late or had an argument with their spouse or whatever or just wants to play with their fancy roadster. 

 

It is not MY speed limit..... there are signs along the side of the road that post it for ALL of the road's users.  I certainly didn't choose those numbers. 

 

Nobody does own the road - well around here, the townships do own the roads, and there are certainly good reasons, including the law, why a person should drive in the right lane unless actively involved in passing a slower vehicle, and I'm totally in favor of that, and do so myself when out on the 'big roads' but nobody has yet explained why, on a one-lane road with no pull-outs, anyone should drive in a ditch so somebody behind them can break the law?

 

My small town has on its main road a sharp blind curve, actually two of them a hundred yards apart, half way down a long fairly steep hill, ledge on one side, a river on the other, that is posted at 25MPH.  Several signs on each side remind drivers of this.  Back when I was a firefighter, and my wife an EMT, we regularly got to visit this curve and deal with the sometimes horrible aftermath of folks who thought they could drive their zoomy sports cars or jacked-up pickups around the corner at whatever speed they thought would be fun, and either put it in the river or bounced it off the rock or worst, nailed someone coming the other way.  There are, by the way, no 'pullouts' for half a mile on either side, just rock on one side and guardrails on the other.

Am I running 'traffic duty' by knowing this and trying to stay alive?  Am I running 'traffic duty' by not blasting around the corner so somebody behind me can endanger me, him, and oncoming vehicles?

 

Let the debate continue. 


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#50 t_image

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 09:12 AM

I appreciate forums because no one post need summarize or completely state a universal for all situations..

..[although it is a human temptation to often think one's opinion so]

But with the diversity of focus and points of emphasis/ insights into deeper applications and musings about unintended consequences,

the readers are lead to ponder the complexities of an issue!

 

As to situations where I find myself unnecessarily wearing out my brakes because a lost Sunday tourist ahead refuses to even drive the speed limit,

I find a place myself to pull over and wait some time for them to escape far enough ahead, so I can drive a familiar course in a safe and consistent speed without doing unnecessary injury to my brake pads and rotors......

 

As to unwise speeders I have two "karma" stories:

One involves a truck I passed (which was currently pulled over by PD).....A few minutes later I find it gaining on me and I let it pass on the left.....

As I watch it speeds ahead, a few minutes later I see it blow through another speed trap and sure enough the lights are for him (again) as I watch in my rearview mirror him getting pulled over a second time within a 10 mile stretch..........

 

Another involved a long stretch of Arizona freeway that allowed visibility for miles ahead of the road........

So I was driving along and I spot a State Trooper ahead and decide to not approach or pass him...

Another not-as-wise individual creeps up and passes me and continues to close on the LE vehicle.....

I watch ahead the entire event take place from about 1/4 away....

The car continues to creep up and (momentarily hits brakes)---telling me he at least thought the wiser for a moment...........

(I'm saying out loud at this time-don't do it!!!)

But then decides to attempt to slowly creep past the Trooper.......

Sure enough not long after lights go on and he is pulled over.........

People often forget that rear-facing radar exists.......

And freeways that give visibility ahead also give visibility behind........

The speed limit BTW was 75mph......


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