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Who is on the list for a Mach2?

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#51 WadeH237

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 11:51 AM

On the list but won't likely order.... possible I could sell the MyT and get the Mach 2. Game time decision.

If you do that, then you will need to get an AP1600 to complete the collection :)


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#52 DeanS

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:26 PM

Price just posted on AP website  $8940.00



#53 gundark

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:38 PM

Price just posted on AP website $8940.00


Ooof. Guess I’ll be sticking with my Mach1.

It would have been hard to justify replacing it at any price because it has been performing so flawlessly anyway.
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#54 rgsalinger

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:51 PM

Don't forget that you need a saddle and shipping is another 240 dollars. If you have to pay tax, you are quite close to 10,000 dollars. If that's what their cost plus margins have to be I can easily see why they had to stop making Mach 1's. Still, compare it to a GM1000 and it's got more capacity. Compare is to a Paramount MX+ and you get "free" encoders. 

Rgrds-Ross



#55 dhaval

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 08:04 PM

I am saddened by that price - I was expecting it closer to their initial advertised price of $7500....I think the folks on the list for a Mach1 may feel cheated a bit...but I guess, they have the option of getting a AP1100 now...might not be as portable as the Mach1 was, so that might be an issue for folks. And yes, this still competes with 10Micron because of higher weight capacity. But, generally disappointing price. 

 

CS! 



#56 plane48

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 08:48 PM

It's too bad the new Mach2 doesn't have encoders as an option like the 1100/1600.  Also, the 39lb mount weight is only 5lbs lighter than the RA axis of the 1100, so it's not exactly a lightweight mount.   I too feel for the people who were on the list for a Mach1...ouch.

 

Still, the new mount is phenomenal given Rolando's reports.  It apparently can swing some mighty loads with a long moment arm which is no easy task for a mount that is sub 40lb.



#57 Gleason

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 08:52 PM

The Mach 2 is a lot of mount. Great carrying capability and tracking. Good for remote installations.   Add California tax and now the shipping (which used to be included), it's a very expensive little guy.  It does make you wonder if import duties on materials has resulted in the higher price.   I keep hearing that aluminum and stainless steel has shot up in price. Folks wanting a Mach 1 sized premium mount may need to look at the MyT from Bisque. 



#58 Haydon

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 09:32 PM

At that price, will the first run still effectively be sold out or do you think they will be generally available by A-P/Retailers?  What would be a typical time period to wait for a second run?  Do they have any near-term plans for a second run?


Edited by Haydon, 05 September 2019 - 09:33 PM.


#59 ChrisWhite

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 09:54 PM

I got the email today as I was on the mach 1 list.... so glad I found a second hand mach 1 in the meantime. This price tag is too rich for my blood. It's a shame they don't still offer a version without encoders. But, they are pretty much always out of stock on mounts and scopes so they are doing something right!

#60 Stelios

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 10:33 PM

That price is disappointing. I think it is a mistake on AP's part. I was not in the market for this mount which is heavier than I can lift, but I thought AP had come out with a 10-Micron and MyT killer. Far from it, I think a lot of Mach1 sales will be driven to MyT.  Not to mention they will probably cannibalize sales of their AP1100. 

 

I like AP (the company), and hope I'm wrong. They just went a bit too far though, IMO.


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#61 Swanny

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 12:33 AM

Hmmmm. As stated above.....add a saddle, shipping, taxes, some counter weights and you are a little over $10k. The 10Micron also comes with a hand controller I think? A little more capacity and similar weight of mounts. I dunno if it is worth it for me and my needs.
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#62 JoeR

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 06:03 AM

I think it’s a good price compared to the rest of the line. The encoders are included and that’s a $5k upgrade for the 1100/1600 and you get the new improved motors.

Now that the Mach2 is shipping I hope this means they’re ready for the CP4 firmware update to add multi-star model building for the other mounts.

#63 dhaval

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 07:25 AM

I think it’s a good price compared to the rest of the line. The encoders are included and that’s a $5k upgrade for the 1100/1600 and you get the new improved motors.

Now that the Mach2 is shipping I hope this means they’re ready for the CP4 firmware update to add multi-star model building for the other mounts.

I think what is disappointing is that Roland had initially indicated that because Mach2s were going to have encoders on them, they could buy them at a cheaper cost in bulk (as compared to encoders for their other mounts, which are obviously an accessory to the mount itself and hence are more one-offish than those for Mach2). I am sure Roland would not speak out of turn and the initial suggested price would have taken in to account the addition of encoders. 

 

I think what Roland and gang did not take in to account was the higher price of steel and aluminum because of tariffs against various countries, including Canada. However, if you think about it, those tariffs were put in place as of March 2018. I am guessing that the initial suggested price was more a case of oversight or under-estimation (or both) on part of A-P as it relates to steel/aluminum costs. 

CS! 


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#64 WadeH237

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 07:29 AM

That price is disappointing. I think it is a mistake on AP's part.

Roland posted about the price to the ap-gto group.

 

There are two factors that drove the price up beyond where they wanted it.  First, their raw materials cost has gone up substantially in the recent past.  And second, they've been taking customer feedback and making some changes that have affected the price.

 

I guess that my position on it, is that I consider Astro-Physics to be no-compromise, in terms of the performance of their product.  I would rather see them raise the price, than lower the quality or performance.  If I want a mount that is built to a price point, I have plenty of other options.  Also, I would like to see them price it so that their business is sustainable.

 

And finally, when you compare the features and performance of the Mach2, as compared to its closest competitors (which I'll call the MyT and the GM1000HPS), I think that it is still attractively priced.  That's not to say that I wouldn't have preferred to see it at $7500, but I just don't think that they could make that work.

 

On Edit:  I'll also add that I was one of the first AP1600 owners.  I was originally on the list for the the AP1200, when it was discontinued in favor of the new AP1600.  The AP1600's estimated price was above that of the AP1200, but not nearly so much as the increased capability would suggest (in my opinion).  Based on the estimated price, I waited for the 1600, instead of switching to the 900.

 

When the final price of the AP1600 was announced, it was higher than their initial estimate.  Here's the thing:  I was a bit surprised at first, but since getting the mount, I never think about that.  In fact, I'm only thinking about it now, because of the recent price comments on this thread.  I don't even remember the different between the estimated price and final price.  What I do think about, every time I use the mount, is how much I enjoy it.


Edited by WadeH237, 06 September 2019 - 07:36 AM.

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#65 PirateMike

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:03 AM

For me, and at this time, the addition of ~19.5% increase to the initial estimated price is a deal killer. Not because I'm not willing to pay the actual price but because I am currently not in the position to do so.

 

I was planning on "breaking the bank" to purchase this mount, but robbing one crazy.gif is out of the question.

 

Maybe I'll be financially ready before my name comes up... I am hoping so.

 

Also, I'm wondering if the price will come down once the affecting tariffs are taken away... but I doubt it.

 

But the MY-T....

 

 

 

Miguel   8-)

 

.


Edited by PirateMike, 06 September 2019 - 09:08 AM.


#66 rgsalinger

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:42 AM

The amount of steel and aluminum cannot be a factor in a 2500 dollar price increase. The charts that I've looked at all show the same thing. Steel and Aluminum prices have actually declined in the past year. That absorbs much of the tariffs (even if you still imported from China and why would you?). In addition, the amount of steel and aluminum in a 50 pound mount could never explain a $2000 percent price hike because of material costs. Even if they have to buy 100 pounds of aluminum and 100 pounds of steel per mount and paid 25 percent over spot, that's maybe a couple of hundred bucks of increase. 

 

I think that they saw the GM1000 as their closest competitor and priced the Mach 2 which has greater capacity- right around the GM1000 price. That mount is $9404 on sale from $10194 at OPT and they are in stock. To me this is way too much of a coincidence. Still, at 10K for a mount with 75 pounds of capacity and Renishaw encoders, else can you buy? 

 

Rgrds-Ross


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#67 Swanny

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:00 AM

I do not think it is priced unfairly to be honest. I think the shock is the price increase from the projected price. Perhaps it takes many more man hours to produce this mount compared to what they thought after getting into a full production run. If it takes another 20 hours to build with $50/hour let’s say per mount that is a grand right there. I am sure AP is being fair in their pricing. Probably shouldn’t have sent that projected price out before knowing fully. Lesson learned.
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#68 whwang

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:06 AM

I am on the list, and now I need to rethink about it.  The announced price is kind of steep.

 

When I am going to make something available, I never pre-announce the date or price, until I am really sure.  This avoids giving people unrealistic expectation, and also avoids the complaints I may get if I cannot make it.

 

That said, I think the price is fair for what the mount can do.  It's just a bit too much for me.


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#69 Rick Socarras

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:55 AM

I'm on the list also and it's from the original Mach 1 list so I suspect I'll be getting notified soon.  Like everyone else on the list I was hoping for something closer to the Mach 1 pricing.  I do feel it is a fair price considering the added encoders and electronics.  But, it is a lot of money.

 

I do not know yet what I will do.  That said, it's a mount which you will never have the need to think of buying another...what's that worth?


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#70 WadeH237

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 12:27 PM

The amount of steel and aluminum cannot be a factor in a 2500 dollar price increase. The charts that I've looked at all show the same thing. Steel and Aluminum prices have actually declined in the past year. That absorbs much of the tariffs (even if you still imported from China and why would you?). In addition, the amount of steel and aluminum in a 50 pound mount could never explain a $2000 percent price hike because of material costs. Even if they have to buy 100 pounds of aluminum and 100 pounds of steel per mount and paid 25 percent over spot, that's maybe a couple of hundred bucks of increase. 
 
I think that they saw the GM1000 as their closest competitor and priced the Mach 2 which has greater capacity- right around the GM1000 price. That mount is $9404 on sale from $10194 at OPT and they are in stock. To me this is way too much of a coincidence. Still, at 10K for a mount with 75 pounds of capacity and Renishaw encoders, else can you buy? 
 
Rgrds-Ross

It's not just the raw materials.  Here is an excerpt from Roland's post:


But look what happened meanwhile. 25% tariffs hit us big time. Our mounts use a lot of stainless steel and aluminum and it increased our metal prices. On top of that, we import lots of small components like bearings, gears, electronic components, servo motors, etc that are not manufactured in the US. These all got hit by 25%. Even the parts that we get made here have upped in price because they can (import prices are up so they raised theirs too).

 

I tried to find the direct link to the post on Yahoo Groups, but it is mind numbingly difficult to find a specific quote over there, so I just have this excerpt from my local email.

 

Note that I am just passing it along.  I'm not defending it or trying to prove it right or wrong...
 



#71 timmbottoni

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 12:42 PM

The price is simply too high now - I will pass for sure when I get an email


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#72 rgsalinger

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 01:14 PM

Now that I know more about it, I may try to find one for myself. It really sounds like a very modern design and a huge step forward for them. Now that you're all giving up on the mount, I'll wait for them to reopen the list and put my name on it. I really didn't want to see a Mach 1 clone at that price.

 

But, honestly,  a 2000 dollar price increase due to tariffs on steel, aluminum, bearings, capacitors and the like makes sense to you? (remember no tariff on Mexico, Canada) 

 

Put that idea up against these facts ---- 

 

     We've seen no price increase from Software Bisque who also use steel, aluminum, and bearings (not to mention screw plungers) 

 

     The Chinese mount manufacturers whose mounts are now subject to tariffs (HS Code 900580) have not increased their prices - my CEM120EC2 remains at 7K (firmware apparently has been fixed)

     

I also couldn't help but notice that they have slotted it into the space between the GM1000 and the GM2000 in terms of capacity but priced is at GM1000 levels. They also seem to have added in factory installed through the mount cabling. The mount will sell out at that price.

 

Rgrds-Ross



#73 Stelios

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 01:38 PM

I think it's going to be a great mount for those who can afford it. But that number shrinks as the total cost creeps north of 10K.

 

I would have considered it a huge win for AP even at this price (it's definitely a technology leader) *if they hadn't cancelled the Mach1*. Now the cheapest mount they have is the AP1100, and they've sort of lost their "entry level" mount. 

 

SB *added* the MyT to their expensive lineup and appears to have done well with it. AP is going the other way. Also they lost the easily mobile Mach1. 

 

I guess I should be happy--I'm sure the resale value of my Mach1 went up. Not that I plan to sell it till I'm too old to do astrophotography.


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#74 bmhjr

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 01:56 PM

I guess I should be happy--I'm sure the resale value of my Mach1 went up. Not that I plan to sell it till I'm too old to do astrophotography.

 

At this price, I may now be too old to buy one.  I doubt I have enough years to recoup the cost/benefit.  But I may change my mind, who knows.

 

EDIT: On second thought, who needs food and shelter when you can have an AP mount?


Edited by bmhjr, 06 September 2019 - 02:21 PM.


#75 Haydon

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 03:29 PM

I had put down a nonrefundable deposit with OPT when I thought it would be around $7,500.  Obviously, I'm stuck buying the mount now but since it is over-budget what I may elect to do is offer it to someone wishing to trade their Mach 1 plus cash. We'll see. 




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