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Who is on the list for a Mach2?

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#126 Peter in Reno

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 08:35 PM

My biggest gripe I am having about Mach2 is it no longer supports through the mount cabling for external cables. I love having to route several external cables through the mount for my A-P 1100GTO and I NEVER EVER have to worry about cables getting caught during imaging session. I know that there are ways around it if the mount does not have through the mount cabling using external cables but I NEVER EVER think about it because all of my external cables are routed though the mount and it's a huge life saver.

 

I believe A-P advertisement of "through the mount cabling" at their web site for Mach2 is a little (or big) misleading and I've asked A-P to re-word their advertisement so that future Mach2 owners won't be somewhat betrayed because A-P also advertise A-P 1100/1600 through the mount cabling as well meaning that external cables can be routed through the mount as well but it's not possible for Mach2. A-P need to say that additional external cables CANNOT be routed through the mount.

 

What A-P meant about "through the mount cabling" is that USB3 and power cables are already routed internally so that you can connect 12VDC and USB3 cables externally to the mount so you may have to redesign your external cable management a little bit. This may mean that you may need to have power distribution box (i.e. RigRunner) and USB hub at the scope(s).

 

Bottom line, I highly recommend ALL of A-P products and I will continue to buy their products.

 

Peter


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#127 EFT

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 08:36 PM

Agreed, I won’t be selling my Mach1 any time soon. Mine came from the final batch of Mach1’s and so it is the youngest of all existing Mach1s smile.gif And it’s so light when compared to my AP1100 and quicker to set up as well, and guides very well, so no need to sell it. But I’ll be seeing the Mach2 when my friend gets it at the end of the year — I’ll make a determination then whether to get one or not.

 

cytan

My only question would really be why would you consider changing in the first place?  You have an excellent mount that presumably does what you wanted it to do when you bought it relatively recently.  Unless you are changing what you want to do, why would you care about how someone else does with the new mount?  This is exactly how manufacturers (car manufactures probably being the best example) get people to buy new equipment.  You don't need it, but you want it.  If you have endless money then it doesn't matter but if you don't, then it makes a big difference.  I don't mean to say that there is no reason to upgrade to the Mach2 (or some other mount), just that when you have a very recent mount that does what you bought it for, why would you care what the next new shiny toy comes out other than the fact that we are all attracted to new shiny toys.



#128 cytan299

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 08:48 PM

My only question would really be why would you consider changing in the first place?  You have an excellent mount that presumably does what you wanted it to do when you bought it relatively recently.  Unless you are changing what you want to do, why would you care about how someone else does with the new mount?  This is exactly how manufacturers (car manufactures probably being the best example) get people to buy new equipment.  You don't need it, but you want it.  If you have endless money then it doesn't matter but if you don't, then it makes a big difference.  I don't mean to say that there is no reason to upgrade to the Mach2 (or some other mount), just that when you have a very recent mount that does what you bought it for, why would you care what the next new shiny toy comes out other than the fact that we are all attracted to new shiny toys.

You're right about the new shiny toy smile.gif. As the saying goes "the only difference between man and boys is the price and size of their toys". I probably wouldn't get one because my Mach1 and AP1100AE does exactly what I want. But like I said, my friend is getting one at the end of the year. I just want to have a look at it. Chances are 0.001% that I will buy one.

 

cytan


Edited by cytan299, 14 September 2019 - 08:48 PM.

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#129 WadeH237

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 09:33 PM

You don't need it, but you want it.  If you have endless money then it doesn't matter but if you don't, then it makes a big difference.

Amen to that.

 

I really want a Mach2, but my AP1100 is ridiculously good and meets every need that I could possibly have for a Mach2.  And since I don't have endless money, I don't see a Mach2 in my future.


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#130 Swanny

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 09:53 PM

With a Mach 2 I can run a Planewave 12.5/ 12 Edge on encoders and that gives me a bit of a chubby.
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#131 EFT

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:12 PM

+100.

 

I was a bit worried that if the Mach2 had been priced at $7,500 as initially contemplated, it might cause a downward pressure on the Mach1 resale value (although I was never planning to resell--the Mach2 is too heavy for me, and I don't image at giant focal lengths). 

 

But with the Mach2 starting at $8,950, if anything it will raise the value of a Mach1 which is still every bit the great mount it was before the Mach2 was announced, and is now unavailable *new*. It will also boost sales of MyT, with which the Mach2 no longer would compete.

 

I think the only reason Roland discontinued the Mach1 was because he needs to sell many Mach2's to get the discount price for the encoders. I appreciate that thinking, but I wonder if it will play out in practice as intended. I think the mounts that will suffer the most are the Paramount MX and the AP1100, and to a lesser extent, 10 Micron sales in the US. I think he could've kept the Mach1 and sales of the Mach2 would not have been significantly impacted. I hope he brings it back some day.

This may be true about the value of the Mach1 mounts and how the Mach2 may very well hurt the sales of the AP1100 and the MX, but I actually think that the end price of the Mach2 greatly benefits both the GM1000HPS and the MyT.  The biggest competition issue for 10Micron was cost even though it was an apples and oranges comparison between mounts with and without absolute shaft encoders.  In regards to competition with AP, that issue is essentially gone and that good for 10Micron.  SB benefits even more.  The MyT is now by far the least expensive sub-100 pound capacity premium mount out there and the sales of those should probably go up quite a bit (even though it is again and apple and oranges comparison). 


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#132 EFT

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:17 PM

I believe A-P advertisement of "through the mount cabling" at their web site for Mach2 is a little (or big) misleading and I've asked A-P to re-word their advertisement so that future Mach2 owners won't be somewhat betrayed because A-P also advertise A-P 1100/1600 through the mount cabling as well meaning that external cables can be routed through the mount as well but it's not possible for Mach2. A-P need to say that additional external cables CANNOT be routed through the mount.

 

What A-P meant about "through the mount cabling" is that USB3 and power cables are already routed internally so that you can connect 12VDC and USB3 cables externally to the mount so you may have to redesign your external cable management a little bit. This may mean that you may need to have power distribution box (i.e. RigRunner) and USB hub at the scope(s).

This was my understanding as well.



#133 Peter in Reno

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:21 PM

This was my understanding as well.

Amen.

 

Peter



#134 rockstarbill

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:34 PM

My biggest gripe I am having about Mach2 is it no longer supports through the mount cabling for external cables. I love having to route several external cables through the mount for my A-P 1100GTO and I NEVER EVER have to worry about cables getting caught during imaging session. I know that there are ways around it if the mount does not have through the mount cabling using external cables but I NEVER EVER think about it because all of my external cables are routed though the mount and it's a huge life saver.

 

I believe A-P advertisement of "through the mount cabling" at their web site for Mach2 is a little (or big) misleading and I've asked A-P to re-word their advertisement so that future Mach2 owners won't be somewhat betrayed because A-P also advertise A-P 1100/1600 through the mount cabling as well meaning that external cables can be routed through the mount as well but it's not possible for Mach2. A-P need to say that additional external cables CANNOT be routed through the mount.

 

What A-P meant about "through the mount cabling" is that USB3 and power cables are already routed internally so that you can connect 12VDC and USB3 cables externally to the mount so you may have to redesign your external cable management a little bit. This may mean that you may need to have power distribution box (i.e. RigRunner) and USB hub at the scope(s).

 

Bottom line, I highly recommend ALL of A-P products and I will continue to buy their products.

 

Peter

This is the key reason why I went with the AE upgrade kit on my 1100. I wanted AE, but wanted to keep my through mount cabling. 


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#135 mr1337

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 10:28 AM

Found myself on the list, but I got an MX+ last year. Am I crazy for even considering it?

 

I'm tempted by those encoders since I mainly go unguided and the lighter weight is nice (since I don't max out the capacity of the MX+ by a longshot) but not thrilled about the lack of thru-mount cabling. Protrack also doesn't work that well for me since i have an SCT and I think the mirror flop gives it problems. Even on 2 minute exposures ProTrack is significantly worse turned on than leaving it off (70-ish tpoint run, around 7-arcsec RMS)

 

What I need is a remote observatory so one can go there and one can stay at home with me ;0)


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#136 SteveGR

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:05 AM

Nothing wrong with the mount you have and encoders won't help your mirror flop.
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#137 rgsalinger

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 02:09 PM

Interesting. The key reason I upgraded to a Paramount from a Mach 1 was to avoid running my own cables through the mount. I'm not really sure why one would see running their own cables as an advantage, if the factory installed cabling is adequate in the first place. Not that you can't run cables through a Paramount, it's just nice (to me) not to have to when I don't need to. I've never had good luck with ProTrack. my most recent attempt with a PW 12.5 (fixed mirror) showed elongation at 3 minutes of exposure. Only my short scopes seem to be able to go unguided. I still think that you will generally have better guiding with properly installed encoders than without them. 

Rgrds-Ross


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#138 mr1337

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 04:45 PM

That's what I was wondering, would the encoders be more reliable and would it be worth it to sacrifice 25% of my weight capacity for that increase in accuracy.

 

re: cabling... I ran higher rated power and usb3 cable thru-mount, there are some limits to what is recommended with the thru-mount cabling. I also have my computer, power distribution, dew heater, and everything piggybacked on the scope, but sometimes use the laptop for EAA, so need the flexibity to reorient cable around and plug in the laptop so I can drive without needing to remote into that minipc.

 

I can get 5 minute unguided without protrack, all I can think of is that there is some factor in the model that is so far off that ProTrack is misunderstanding how it needs to adjust things. I've tried with double the Tpoint samples too and doesn't seem to matter much. Will try it again tonight and see if its still the same.

 

Any idea on what sort of unguided exposure times folks have been getting with the Mach2 and how it compares to MX+ w/o ProTrack?



#139 EFT

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 05:18 PM

Your C8HD may be the culprit but if you have the primary locked down and a little pressure from the focuser, it shouldn't be.  If you run more and more points and get no improvement, then there is either some random movement/flexure that is completely unable to be modeled or something in the modeling algorithm that is keeping it from working with your system. 

 

You might be able to find some unguided images from Roland on the ap-gto yahoo group, but as far as I know, it is only the four guys at AP that have used the mount (prototype) at this time.


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#140 PirateMike

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:47 PM

Rodrigo,

 

Getting rid of the Mach1 has certainly left me scratching my head.  Since the cost of the Mach2 ending being so much higher than predicted, maybe they will go back to making the Mach1 as well.  You never know.

I have a really strong feeling (for specific reasons that I will not mention) that AP will come up with a smaller and less expensive version of the Mach2.

 

Assumption #1 - It is not your average astrophotographer who has the need to swing a 180mm refractor around.

Assumption #2 - It is not your average astrophotographer who has $9K+ hanging around to spend on a mount just to make prettier pictures.

Assumption #3 - Because of assumptions #1 and #2, the pool of astrophotographers who are willing and able to purchase a Mach2 will dwindle very quickly after the initial "qualified" pool of buyers bottoms out.

Assumption #4 - Because of assumption #3 something will be needed to be done to maintain their business, and that something can only be to supply a mount that enlarges the pool of perspective buyers. For me that means supplying the masses of "unqualified" astrophotographers with something that can accept as reasonable. So just hang on and see what shoe will drop next.

I'll be waiting for the Mach1.5 (or whatever you want to call it) to arrive. Until then I will stay pat or... MyT.

 

 

 

As a note, I really wanted a Mach2 when I first read about it, but now it appears that the mount has way more weight carrying ability than I would ever need, and the price is way more than I could ever afford to spend on a hobby.

 

 

Miguel   8-)

 

.


Edited by PirateMike, 17 September 2019 - 07:23 PM.

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#141 rockstarbill

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 07:28 PM

I have a really strong feeling (for specific reasons that I will not mention) that AP will come up with a smaller and less expensive version of the Mach2.

 

Assumption #1 - It is not your average astrophotographer who has the need to swing a 180mm refractor around.

Assumption #2 - It is not your average astrophotographer who has $9K+ hanging around to spend on a mount just to make prettier pictures.

Assumption #3 - Because of assumptions #1 and #2, the pool of astrophotographers who are willing and able to purchase a Mach2 will dwindle very quickly after the initial "qualified" pool of buyers bottoms out.

Assumption #4 - Because of assumption #3 something will be needed to be done to maintain their business, and that something can only be to supply a mount that enlarges the pool of perspective buyers. For me that means supplying the masses of "unqualified" astrophotographers with something that can accept as reasonable. So just hang on and see what shoe will drop next.

I'll be waiting for the Mach1.5 (or whatever you want to call it) to arrive. Until then I will stay pat or... MyT.

 

 

 

As a note, I really wanted a Mach2 when I first read about it, but now it appears that the mount has way more weight carrying ability than I would ever need, and the price is way more than I could ever afford to spend on a hobby.

 

 

Miguel   8-)

 

.

I think these are all fair points. Roland did mention its possible to build a mount like the AP400 was, with 40 lbs capacity and encoders. That would likely be much cheaper yet still perform well. I would get one of those in a heartbeat.


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#142 PirateMike

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 07:50 PM

I think these are all fair points. Roland did mention its possible to build a mount like the AP400 was, with 40 lbs capacity and encoders. That would likely be much cheaper yet still perform well. I would get one of those in a heartbeat.

That's right. I believe he mentioned that a little before my "Yachts and Rowboats" comment/comparison.

 

 

Miguel   8-)

 

.



#143 aaube

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:46 PM

Ordering done, estimated delivery is december.

 

Alain


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#144 Stelios

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 12:03 AM

I think these are all fair points. Roland did mention its possible to build a mount like the AP400 was, with 40 lbs capacity and encoders. That would likely be much cheaper yet still perform well. I would get one of those in a heartbeat.

Why would it be *much* cheaper? The only savings I see is in materials. You may be able to save on tripod and CW's, but the rest (labor, encoders, etc.) should be the same. 

 

If it has encoders, it would *not* be under 6K. I would lose a big bet if they can do it for less. Not that it won't sell at that price. I think it will sell well. 


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#145 rockstarbill

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 12:22 AM

Why would it be *much* cheaper? The only savings I see is in materials. You may be able to save on tripod and CW's, but the rest (labor, encoders, etc.) should be the same. 

 

If it has encoders, it would *not* be under 6K. I would lose a big bet if they can do it for less. Not that it won't sell at that price. I think it will sell well. 

Ask him. 



#146 Rick Socarras

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 09:18 AM

Ordering done, estimated delivery is december.

 

Alain

Congrats Alain!



#147 PirateMike

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 01:03 PM

I think these are all fair points. Roland did mention its possible to build a mount like the AP400 was, with 40 lbs capacity and encoders. That would likely be much cheaper yet still perform well. I would get one of those in a heartbeat.

I bet I get on the list before you. lol.gif

 

 

Miguel   8-)

 

.


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#148 aaube

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 11:45 PM

Congrats Alain!

Thanks Rick!

 

To say I'm looking forward to it is an understatement!

 

Alain



#149 Bundter

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 04:31 PM

Deposit paid yesterday for an expected December delivery subject to the usual caveats regarding production contingencies.


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#150 Rick Socarras

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 09:46 AM

Deposit paid yesterday for an expected December delivery subject to the usual caveats regarding production contingencies.

Congrats to you as well!  That's a few of us that now expect delivery in December.  I'm curious what others are buying with the mount?  I did not pickup a new tripod as I have a Losmandy.  What did everyone else do?  Did you pickup RPAS?  I have a PoleMaster but now thinking about RPAS???

 

So, for those of us that are expecting this new mount in Dec., what else are we picking up with it?  It's my 1st AP mount.  I'm picking up the basics only.  What do others think?




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