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Bright Supernova Page is updating again, and one is bright!

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#1 Redbetter

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 12:08 AM

Just wanted to provide a separate heads up from Stan's extremely helpful updates.  It looks like David Bishop's Bright Supernova Page is updating again.  I hope that means he is over whatever health issue had him out of action for several weeks.

 

SN 2019ein in NGC 5353 which StanH has kept us updated on is now at 13.2 mag per the site.  I wonder if this is a little brighter than actual?  The most recent image lists it as 14.38 V on 5/10, but perhaps something hasn't updated yet or I just missed it.  Either way, it has brightened several magnitude over the past week or so. 


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#2 Tapio

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 12:45 AM

Thanks for the info.

#3 havasman

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 01:38 AM

Good news.



#4 StanH

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 07:52 AM

Just wanted to provide a separate heads up from Stan's extremely helpful updates.  It looks like David Bishop's Bright Supernova Page is updating again.  I hope that means he is over whatever health issue had him out of action for several weeks.

 

SN 2019ein in NGC 5353 which StanH has kept us updated on is now at 13.2 mag per the site.  I wonder if this is a little brighter than actual?  The most recent image lists it as 14.38 V on 5/10, but perhaps something hasn't updated yet or I just missed it.  Either way, it has brightened several magnitude over the past week or so. 

The 13.2 seems much too bright.  My image from last night had it at 14.1.  Should still be perhaps a week before reaching peak.



#5 einarin

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:06 AM

So I imaged it last night.

Measured it to be mag 13.5.

 

82964_c24fb34f88b82bc758cd9e11780899ff.j


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#6 robin_astro

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:14 PM

A spectrum of SN2019ein from 20190511

https://www.cloudyni...ein-in-ngc5353/

 

Robin


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#7 Redbetter

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 04:04 PM

So I imaged it last night.

Measured it to be mag 13.5.

 

 

Great image!  The magnification estimates of SN are often all over the map so one person will get 14, another 13.5, etc.  It is hard to tell how much of that is the expected rapid brightening to peak, and how much is variation in the estimating technique and conditions capturing the image. 

 

And visually they can look far different as well, usually more difficult, but sometimes the opposite.  There was 2019np in NGC 3254 that appeared to be 13.0 or brighter to me using an 80ED refractor where it was easily seen even at low power.  Most imagers had it around 13.4/13.5 at peak around the same time, although one had it at 12.8 "unfiltered".


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#8 StanH

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 06:16 PM

By no means do I consider myself an expert on imaging supernovae, but hopefully have gained enough experience to produce reliable results since beginning imaging supernovae in 2007 as well as being part of a supernova search from 2010 to 2015.  

 

Measuring the brightness of a supernova can be tricky.  Many are embedded in the host galaxy and require subtraction to get an accurate result.  I've seen many reports that are far too bright due to this issue.  What filter, if any, and the choice comparison stars can result in a wide range of results.   With CCDs being red sensitive that also can create issues.   Stay away from very red stars or very blue stars.  For the unfiltered, luminance, and clear images I prefer to use comparison stars of Johnson V.  Some people prefer to use R.  My choice of catalog is APASS.  I try to find stars that have B-V between 0.4 and 0.8.  I've found that when compared with actual Johnson V exposures it is usually not more than 0.2 magnitude off.

 

For SN 2019ein in NGC 5353 it is somewhat embedded.  However, right now as it is near maximum I don't expect the host contribution would be significant.

 

einarin was your magnitude determined from Johnson V comparison stars?  Is the image unfiltered or taken with a red filter?  Just eyeballing your image, the supernova does appear to be between 13.3 and 13.8 based on the stars in the nice little triangle between NGC 5353 and NGC 5371 to upper left.  It definitely appears brighter than the 14.3 star which is the southern of the two stars between the NGC 5353/4 pair and NGC 5355.

 

As Redbetter pointed out, some supernovae do appear brighter visually than say, the Johnson V results would suggest.  In my case some of it is my right eye is without the lens and as a result is a bit more blue sensitive.  However, some supernova around maximum are nearly equally bright from blue to red.  I suspect that being so nearly equally bright over the visual range whereas most stars are not may be the reason supernovae appear brighter visually.  Any one else have any ideas on this?


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#9 Vickx

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 09:00 PM

I estimated the 2019ein couple of minutes ago as 13.9 ± 0.1 mag visually. It was an easy target for my 16" at 230×.

Vic


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#10 Aquarellia

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 04:27 AM

My visual estimation was a little bit more brillant.  I did a sketch in the related forum : https://www.cloudyni...sn-in-ngc-5353/

Michel


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#11 Tapio

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 04:44 AM

I read somewhere that if photometric filters are not available then best is to use G or L (TG?) filters.

Can't find the text now.

I used AstroArt 7 and GSC and GAIA catalogs.



#12 robin_astro

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 06:20 AM

From the spectrograph guider image I estimated 14.3 on 2019-05-11   using an unfiltered camera and these comparison stars

 

sn2019ein_photometry.png

 

The spectrum (black) is brighter in the blue currently and very "lumpy" though (typical of a type Ia at maximum with little interstellar extinction) so the comparison stars used and filter or lack of could have a significant effect

 

sn2019ein_SNID_fit.png

 

 

Robin


Edited by robin_astro, 14 May 2019 - 06:26 AM.


#13 einarin

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 09:14 AM

My colour image shows host galaxy blueish and supernova reddish.

Haven't found many comparison images so what's your opinion ?



#14 robin_astro

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 12:19 PM

My colour image shows host galaxy blueish and supernova reddish.

Haven't found many comparison images so what's your opinion ?

Interestingly the spectra of ngc5353 from the Nasa Extragalactic Database show the galaxy to be rather red, typical of elliptical galaxies which are generally made up of old stars. Here is a screen grab from the NED web page. 

 

NED_ngc5353_spectra.png

 

I think you can only compare brightnesses if they are either taken with the same filter using the same comparison stars or alternatively corrected to a common standard.  Here is the light curve for sn2019ein as measured by the Zwicky Transient Facility 

https://lasair.roe.a...t/ZTF19aatlmbo/

They are measuring in the  r and g  filter bands and  recorded  14.1 (g) and 14.2 ( r ) on 20190513, which is comparable to my measurement of 14.3 on 20190511, also using comparison stars measured in g (Note r and g are not the same filters as R and V commonly used by amateurs) 

 

Cheers

Robin


Edited by robin_astro, 14 May 2019 - 12:21 PM.


#15 Redbetter

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 01:29 PM

NGC 5353 is classified as S0, lenticular which is what it looks like to me in images, and where I would place it based on appearance in the eyepiece of the 20".  Still old stars, with a dearth of gas though. 

 

ZTF had the SN at 16.644 g mag at what appears to be within two hours or so of when I observed it in mediocre conditions with the 20" and was able to hold it constantly in averted vision at 357x, not difficult, not easy.  It was the start of the session and I was clouded out within an hour, so I wasn't going deep yet.  Probably would have been in the mid 17's for difficult to observe stars for the night.  16.6 might be as much as half a magnitude to the dim side of my visual impression, but my eyeball isn't calibrated and I didn't have a sequence for comparison at the time. 

 

The following night it was easy at a lower altitude site in the 20" and I even spotted it in another observer's 16" at somewhat lower, non-optimal magnification.  Interpolating the ZTF r mag results from the following night (no measurement by ZTF the same night) and the previous, it would have been about 16.1 g mag per their system since the g and r were close enough.  Note that I was unable to locate it two nights previous, partially because I was looking too far afield, I might have actually seen it and rejected it as my target.



#16 StanH

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:12 PM

SN 2019ein appears to be peaking between 14.0 and 14.1 in Johnson V.  I was able to obtain a remote image this evening in Johnson V.  It measured 14.07 +/- 0.02. 

 

SN2019ein LC

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#17 Vickx

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 06:00 PM

My visual estimation of 2019ein from today (May 23.9 UT): 14.5±0.1 mag. So, getting slowly dimmer…

Vic



#18 George N

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 08:36 PM

Supernova 2019ein in Galaxy NGC-5353 (part of Hickson Galaxy Group 68)

Taken May 22 2019 at 00:00 EDT (4:00 UT)

 

Image taken with Kopernik Observatory & Science Center's (Vestal, NY - http://www.kopernik.org) Optical Guidance Systems 20-inch F/8 RC and FLI ProLine CCD -- 20 minutes of total exposure (moon up).

 

I used old versions of TheSky V5 and CCDSoft to measure the SN as mag 13.9 - using three different field stars (and the method correctly 'estimated' the magnitude of another field star).

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  • N5353-SN2019ein-neg-IDs.jpg

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#19 George N

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 08:38 PM

Supernova 2019ein in Galaxy NGC-5353 (part of Hickson Galaxy Group 68)

Taken May 22 2019 at 00:00 EDT (4:00 UT)

 

Same image - stretched lots of little background galaxies. 

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  • N5353-SN2019ein-1-FLI.jpg

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#20 Vickx

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 05:35 AM

Supernova 2019ein is 14.7 now (May 30,0 UT) but there is a brighter one close to this one – 2019fck in NGC 5243 in CVn.

Last night it was 14.5 mag by my quick estimation.

Vic


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#21 StanH

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:42 PM

Finally after a month of bad weather, it was supposed to be clear tonight.  Alas, here along the Kansas/Oklahoma line there is some wave moving through creating patchy cloudiness.  Also, remnants from a thunderstorm in western Kansas is heading this way.

 

However, in late twilight I was able to view SN 2019ein in NGC 5353 and SN 2019fck in NGC 5243 with the 17.5-inch before the clouds started taking up too much of the sky.  So disappointed to miss SN 2019ein when it was around peak.  Estimated it at around 14.8.  SN 2019fck was easier to see.  Some of that may be due to deeper twilight.  I could just hold it directly at 202x.  Estimated it around 14.3.



#22 stargzr66207

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 01:39 PM

George N,
That's a nice image of Hickson 68. Was this taken using your MI-250 mount? I also have one
and absolutely love it.
Ron Abbott
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#23 KidOrion

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 03:24 AM

Had a look at 2019fck tonight in a 12". It was surprisingly not-difficult.


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#24 Araguaia

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 05:37 AM

Saw 2019ein last night.  An easy find with the 12" at 277x.  Averted vision object, popping into direct vision most of the time - I could almost hold it in DV.  Very sharp in good seeing.

 

Does anyone know what its current apparent magnitude is?



#25 robin_astro

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:13 PM

 

Does anyone know what its current apparent magnitude is?

Around 14.9 V  according to this source

https://sites.google...17eaw/sn2019ein

 

Robin


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