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Tariff and binocular sales

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#1 Mr. Bill

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 12:39 PM

This is going to be interesting....obviously, APM Germany will be unaffected and so our costs here for his product will probably remain the same whereas Oberwerk imports directly from Chinese factories.

 

:question:

 

 


 

#2 sg6

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 12:57 PM

I would half expect items to become "rarer".

If a distributer buys at whatever high tariff, then they have to keep the/a high price to recoporate or sell at a lesser profit - assumes tariffs end and prices return to the previous lower. In a way I expect many will sit and wait, likely have a restricted selection.

 

Equally the way that manufactures move and have factories in different countries you could find that that "Chinese" scope/binoculars now is "produced" in Taiwan or somewhere that avoids the tariffs.

 

With our Brexit there are a few that have moved off-shore to still qualify for EU trade - in case.


 

#3 TOMDEY

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 12:58 PM

Why don't all countries eliminate all tarriffs? Am I missing something?     Tom


Edited by TOMDEY, 13 May 2019 - 12:59 PM.

 

#4 mich_al

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:01 PM

Why don't all countries eliminate all tarriffs? Am I missing something?     Tom

 

Yea, you are likely trying to apply logic to what is a urinating contest.


 

#5 GamesForOne

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:03 PM

Why don't all countries eliminate all tarriffs? Am I missing something?     Tom

Low-cost of labor in other countries puts domestic industry out of business.

 

High-cost of regulatory environment puts domestic industry at a disadvantage to foreign competition.

 

Industry in other countries can dump at below cost to try to put your domestic industry out of business.

 

Just a few of the reasons for tariffs.

 

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Michael Mc


 

#6 FreddyH

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:09 PM

I agree with Apollo

American industry has to compete on a level playing field with other countries


 

#7 M11Mike

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:41 PM

Dittos on agreement with Apollo.  

 

LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD and bring jobs back to America and I for one - don't mind if that make things cost a bit more.    

 

I'm tired of seeing EVERYTHING I buy NOT made in the USA.

 

And Apollo's right - many of these countries (with the lower prices) care a lot LESS about the environment than we!!!

 

There's an old saying " the cheapest place is quite often not the "smartest" place to buy" - especially in the long run.

 

Another old saying that has stood the test of time - "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR".

 

These lower prices may COST us a lot more than just a lower check book balance.

 

My 2 cents.

 

M11Mike 


 

#8 wrnchhead

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:57 PM

The short version in my opinion is that a few guys on top on both sides of this "war" are sitting on a pile of money, and no matter how it works out, the guys making the stuff and the guys buying the stuff are gonna be the ones to pay. 

 

These "leaders" don't give a rat's about anything but their own money and saying what they need to in order to stay in power. 

 

No leaders care about the workers or the consumer, as long as they work and consume. 


 

#9 Ishtim

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 02:10 PM

If it's tariffs that are of concern, here's a CN thread that touches on many other options including other astro gear...

https://www.cloudyni...ina-these-days/


 

#10 StarDust1

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 02:22 PM

Dittos on agreement with Apollo.  

 

LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD and bring jobs back to America and I for one - don't mind if that make things cost a bit more.    

 

I'm tired of seeing EVERYTHING I buy NOT made in the USA.

 

And Apollo's right - many of these countries (with the lower prices) care a lot LESS about the environment than we!!!

 

There's an old saying " the cheapest place is quite often not the "smartest" place to buy" - especially in the long run.

 

Another old saying that has stood the test of time - "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR".

 

These lower prices may COST us a lot more than just a lower check book balance.

 

My 2 cents.

 

M11Mike 

Yes M11Mike, those jobs will be plenty if you are willing to work for average income
annually 10K or so. That's the average income in China. I'm sure you don't mind working for 10K annually!


Edited by StarDust1, 13 May 2019 - 02:23 PM.

 

#11 Stan Lopata

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 02:45 PM

Low-cost of labor in other countries puts domestic industry out of business.

 

High-cost of regulatory environment puts domestic industry at a disadvantage to foreign competition.

 

Industry in other countries can dump at below cost to try to put your domestic industry out of business.

 

Just a few of the reasons for tariffs.

 

---

Michael Mc

I fail to see how tariffs are going to solve any of the issues listed above.  They are definitely not going to solve the "low cost of labor in other countries."  And, do we want to not have a "regulatory environment?"  Remember the smog belching cars and trucks of the 1950s - do you really want to go back there with no emission regulations?  Yes, stuff from other countries can be bumped here and that does put our domestic industry out of business, but it's stuff we want at prices we want to pay.  Tariffs do drive up the price of foreign product, but one of the strange things that happens is that corresponding domestic product price also goes up.  Hence, we the consumer gets royally screwed!!

Stan


 

#12 ButterFly

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 02:47 PM

Yes M11Mike, those jobs will be plenty if you are willing to work for average income
annually 10K or so. That's the average income in China. I'm sure you don't mind working for 10K annually!

Indeed!  People seem to forget the average gdp per capita is only 18K worldwide, with 10K average household income.  Much of that difference goes to stockholders as dividends and price growth.  Profits drive where the companies are producing.  Tariffs do help lower the profits of producing in certain places, but the other side just imposes their own tariffs, lowering your productivity.  That is nothing more than an added tax on decreasing revenue because consumers always have limited means.


 

#13 Cali

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:06 PM

Dittos on agreement with Apollo.  

 

LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD and bring jobs back to America and I for one - don't mind if that make things cost a bit more.    

Those days are over. 

 

Tariffs went out with wooden war ships. The reason you can't shift from buying a certain good from China to some other country is because China holds a Competitive Advantage in many goods, and that was developed over a long period of time at substantial cost. Think optics as one minuscule example.  

 

U.S. family farmers are the first ones who are going to get really hammered by the newest tariffs. And its not just soy beans and hogs. Wine, which is grown in every state, is going to take a huge hit. I wouldn't want to be in the Pecan nut farming business either. China is no fool on where to retaliate hardest.

 

As for the rest of us, expect prices for many imported goods, from cookware to sneakers and yes optics, to increase which can lead to (trumpets please) inflation. - In effect, you get to be taxed twice.

 

 

Brilliant.

 

- Cal


Edited by Cali, 13 May 2019 - 04:06 PM.

 

#14 StarDust1

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:14 PM

Those days are over. 

 

As a side note, tariffs went out with wooden war ships. The reason you can't shift from buying a certain good from China to some other country is because China holds a Competitive Advantage in many goods, and that was developed over a long period of time at substantial cost.

 

U.S. family farmers are the first ones who are going to get really hammered by the newest tariffs (China is no fool on where to hit hardest). As for the rest of us, expect prices for many goods to increase which can lead to (trumpets please) inflation. 

 

Brilliant.

 

- Cal

Cal, well said!

 

 

 


 

#15 Michael Covington

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:21 PM

Why don't all countries eliminate all tarriffs? Am I missing something?     Tom

You must be an economist.  A basic point in Econ 101 is that tariffs are almost always deadweight losses -- they impose costs on the wrong people, costs that don't buy anything.  Only in very extraordinary situations (where, basically, something is wanted other than economic efficiency) do economists recommend tariffs.


 

#16 ButterFly

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 03:37 PM

You must be an economist.  A basic point in Econ 101 is that tariffs are almost always deadweight losses -- they impose costs on the wrong people, costs that don't buy anything.  Only in very extraordinary situations (where, basically, something is wanted other than economic efficiency) do economists recommend tariffs.

Deadweight might be too strong.  Not all economic sense is dollars and cents.

 

In the US, each of Congress. State, and Commerce set their own schedules based on their own interests (re-election, diplomatic leverage, economic leverage).  The three groups - in normal times - get together and harmonize.  Unfortunately, the 27th A-team seems to forget that State and Commerce are the vehicles to express the competing interests of the White House.  Perhaps re-election is creeping in there as well?  Just guessing here.


 

#17 JimOfOakCreek

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:11 PM

The short version in my opinion is that a few guys on top on both sides of this "war" are sittingares on a pile of money, and no matter how it works out, the guys making the stuff and the guys buying the stuff are gonna be the ones to pay. 

 

These "leaders" don't give a rat's about anything but their own money and saying what they need to in order to stay in power. 

 

No leaders care about the workers or the consumer, as long as they work and consume. 

Our leader cares about getting re-elected. Getting tough with China puts up a good show for his base. The problem I have is with his lie that tariffs are coming from China and going into the US Treasury. 

 

American importers are paying the tariffs not China. It’s really a tax on American importers. The idea behind tariffs is to raise the price of goods coming from China thereby hurting their business. But China doesn’t pay that tax. American Importers pay. Then the importers raise their prices to compensate for the tax. They pass the price increase due to the tariff tax to consumers. Consumers pay the tariffs in the end.

 

If you think some good will come from tariffs, fine. But tell the truth about how tariffs work. When informed about the true nature of tariffs then Americans can make an intelligent evaluation on the policy.


 

#18 TOMDEY

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:14 PM

Why don't all countries eliminate all tarriffs? Am I missing something?     Tom

You must be an economist.  A basic point in Econ 101 is that tariffs are almost always deadweight losses -- they impose costs on the wrong people, costs that don't buy anything.  Only in very extraordinary situations (where, basically, something is wanted other than economic efficiency) do economists recommend tariffs.

Hi, Michael; yes... that indeed was what I was getting at. But it sailed right over the heads of detractors. Tariffs seem almost always steeped in busy-body international social-engineering intentions. The same people who champion national autonomy want to dictate how trading partners produce and provide goods and services. And that is disjoint from economics, which would say, if another country produces the same product at lower cost to this consumer... they should ~naturally~ dominate this market. How they accomplish that is their business, not ours... literally. Simple as that!

 

Evidence of the disconnects: To say that lower wages elsewhere are somehow unfair to us?! Do we have any right to impose our minimum wage on other countries That's one of many ~justifications~ for punitive tariffs. The others follow the same flawed pattern. Imposing our quasi-utopian ideals on others. And conversely, their tariffs on us. Which leads to the only logical conclusion that --- Tariffs are economically negative for all sides. Therefore, entirely free trade is economically beneficial, for all sides.    Tom


 

#19 Beg

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:29 PM

Hasn't this one crossed the line yet....
 

#20 JimOfOakCreek

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:31 PM

One more point about having astro equipment made here instead of China.

 

If you want ‘Made In America’ scopes they are available here in the US. One obvious brand is Astro Physics. I also think Televue scopes are still made here. 

 

But look at the prices of those scopes. A Televue 4” APO cost around $3K. A 4” APO China made scope cost ~$1K or less.  

 

Look at tools. A SnapOn brand rachet costs $30. A Walmart rachet cost $5.95 with sockets. 

 

The point is this. You can’t have cheap American Made goods because our wages are higher. If you want cheap scopes, tools, etc. then they will be made elsewhere, likely China or India.

 

American jobs or cheap foreign goods. You decide.


 

#21 TOMDEY

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:51 PM

One more point about having astro equipment made here instead of China.

If you want ‘Made In America’ scopes they are available here in the US. One obvious brand is Astro Physics. I also think Televue scopes are still made here. 

But look at the prices of those scopes. A Televue 4” APO cost around $3K. A 4” APO China made scope cost ~$1K or less.  

Look at tools. A SnapOn brand rachet costs $30. A Walmart rachet cost $5.95 with sockets. 

The point is this. You can’t have cheap American Made goods because our wages are higher. If you want cheap scopes, tools, etc. then they will be made elsewhere, likely China or India.

American jobs or cheap foreign goods. You decide.

Yes! And there are markets for both, exactly as it should be. Consumer decide. Me, I have nearly all TeleVue refractors and eyepieces, etc. Some others favor cheaper but still good stuff. And that's fine. We each have what we opted for and get along just fine! PS: All my binos are Zeiss... I buy home grown and foreign... my free choice. Feels nice, being able to select from all over the planet! And concluding that truly free trade would maximally benefit everyone involved.     Tom


 

#22 Cali

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:53 PM

GoPro to start making U.S. bound cameras in Mexico - moving production out of China to avoid potential tariffs.

 

Anyone know who makes the lenses in a GroPro camera?

 

- Cal


Edited by Cali, 13 May 2019 - 05:56 PM.

 

#23 TOMDEY

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 05:53 PM

I think the TeleVue has some production in... is it Taiwan? Regardless... I don't care... I just buy what I think is best.    Tom


 

#24 Mr. Bill

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 06:17 PM

Was just wondering what this would mean to let's say the difference in price between the APM and Oberwerk BT 100 APOs.....tongue2.gif


 

#25 ButterFly

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 06:19 PM

I think the TeleVue has some production in... is it Taiwan? Regardless... I don't care... I just buy what I think is best.    Tom

With Japanese glass.

 

Most goods out of China are white label.  People pay premiums for brands names when there is only factory quality control.  The same thing has happened throughout history.  I have both Solingen and Toledo steel straight razors.  They are great as Filarmonica and Boker.  DublDuck would just buy blanks from both and add more quality control.  They are even better.


 


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