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Wireless Range extenders for EAA.

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#1 Noah4x4

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 12:23 AM

I have been working on some wireless CCTV solutions and have found some neat kit with application in EAA. First, I discovered these outdoor 'point to point units' - range up to 2Km!

 

https://www.amazon.c...sr=8-5-fkmrnull

 

Easy to set up. Far more powerful than domestic wireless extender solutions. Completely independent of your Home WAN network and it's frailties. Hence no interference. But require 240v (110v in USA) to power it's Power over Ethernet (POE) local cabling. But note the HD resolution limit.

 

If you need remote 240v AC (or 110v in USA) power at the scope for these, simply connect a 12v/240v DC/AC (or in USA 12v/110v) Inverter that will step up power. One joy is that you can then use the equivalent of mains power for scope and camera too (e.g. using their AC/DC adapters). This unit is small and works great with most 12v batteries common in the astro world. It's a much more reliable way of providing power (e.g. using your cameras/mini-computer or other equipment AC/DC adapters). It outputs 240v/300w AC (from a 12v battery) and I am confident would distribute steady power far better through a devices AC/DC adapter than battery alone. You need POE (24v or 48v) for the type of wireless extender described.

 

https://www.amazon.c...=gateway&sr=8-3

 

This specific kit is obviously designed for the UK (240v) market, but I am sure there are USA equivants. The really clever thing about POE is both power and data flow down a single cable. 


Edited by Noah4x4, 22 May 2019 - 12:46 AM.

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#2 Giorgos

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:15 AM

Regarding the inverter be sure it is a "pure sine" one otherwise it is doubtful whether your valuable electronic equipment will work ok.


Edited by Giorgos, 22 May 2019 - 01:19 AM.


#3 Alfred Tan

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:10 AM

Hi Noah,

 

Thanks for sharing this product with us. Looks promising.

 

I am a novice and so I will ask a simple practical question.  My EAA setup is iOptron CEM25, a 90mm refractor with a ASI224 camera.  Let's suppose I want to have a remote viewing, say 100 metres away.  How can I use this equipment to do it?

 

Another thing I can think of, can I use it to control my scope/mount 100m away?

 

Thanks for answering my beginner-level question.

 

Alfred  



#4 Ulmish

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 08:39 AM

Good post, Noah4x4!  I went with a very similar solution with my setup six months ago to do "long range EAA" from my scope to mission control, 300 feet away.  It works well, even for 4K resolution.  I get around 450 to 600 mbps bandwidth, and the device pair functions as a virtual ethernet cable over 5 Ghz wireless.  The signal goes out on a relatively narrow (~30 degrees or so) beam, so each device needs to be pointed at the other.

 

The devices I'm using are the Ubiquiti AC Nanostation Loco 5 Ghz NS-5ACL.  See https://www.amazon.c...duct/B07GPQKLXW

 

The Nanostation can run on mains power or 12v battery.  For mains power, you can use either a PoE (power over ethernet) switch, or an injector such as this: https://www.amazon.c...duct/B00Y2906OU

 

For running off 12v, you need a PoE injector such as this: https://www.amazon.c...duct/B00ENNUWO4

 

Although the power injector nominally uses 24v, the Nanostation can handle a wider range of voltages and works fine with 12v, with no issues whatsoever.

 

One of the Nanostations is mounted on my garage and connected into my network and uses mains power.  The other is mounted on my scope cart with the PoE injector connected to my 15 AH, 12v LiFePO4 battery.  This one battery runs all the goodies: scope mount, PC (NUC), motorized focuser, 10" display and the networking gear.  The ethernet port on the NUC is connected to the Nanostation, which in turn connects wirelessly back to the garage Nanostation, into my network and thence to my big PC with 4K display where I run the operation through Windows Remote Desktop.

 

Although I have not tested it, longer distances are possible, provided you have good line-of-sight between the two Nanostations.


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#5 Rickster

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:21 AM

Thank you for passing along this information Noah and Roger.

 

The US equivalent of the units identified by Noah can be found by searching Amazon for KuWFi CPE.  There are several different options.

 

https://www.amazon.c...dc&ref=a9_asc_1



#6 Ulmish

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 11:53 AM

You're welcome, Rick.  

 

I would suggest going with a 5 Ghz bridge as opposed to a 2.4 GHz.  The latter band is often pretty crowded, unless you live out in the boonies like I do.  Ideally, get units that support the ac wireless standard (as opposed to b/g/n), as it is newer and faster.  Having MIMO (multiple input/multiple output) support will give better thoughput, too.

 

Also, I'd advise going with a more mainstream brand like Ubiquiti.  Here is an updated link on Amazon at a better price for the Nanostation Loco NS-5ACL, at $49.99 each.

 

https://www.amazon.c...duct/B078NN1J4K



#7 Rickster

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 02:30 PM

Thanks again Roger. 

 

Oh, and I do live in the boonies.  smile.gif


Edited by Rickster, 22 May 2019 - 02:30 PM.


#8 Rickster

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 02:58 PM

While we are on the subject, one of my someday plans is to put an observatory on a hilltop that is slightly darker and has much less fog than my current location (which is in the valley).  The hilltop is not accessible by vehicle (it is a hike best not done in the dark).  I can get wireless internet via Verizon if I want to pay the gigabyte fees (I don't).   So, to be practical, I would need high speed data transmission between it and either my current observing location (2.2 miles), or my home (4.5 miles).  Both distances are line of sight.  Any ideas?



#9 Noah4x4

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:32 PM

While we are on the subject, one of my someday plans is to put an observatory on a hilltop that is slightly darker and has much less fog than my current location (which is in the valley).  The hilltop is not accessible by vehicle (it is a hike best not done in the dark).  I can get wireless internet via Verizon if I want to pay the gigabyte fees (I don't).   So, to be practical, I would need high speed data transmission between it and either my current observing location (2.2 miles), or my home (4.5 miles).  Both distances are line of sight.  Any ideas?

Hi Rick,

 

I think you can daisy chain multiple 2 Km point to point outdoor  systems to give you that range. Your issue then is how do you power them? As I said, I have used a 12v battery with 12v/240v inverter into which the supplied AC/DC PoE adapter is plugged, so no fear of the wrong voltage etc. But Ulmish' s suggestion would probably be better in the USA. 


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#10 Ulmish

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:44 PM

Rick, 

 

I think it is very doable if you have true line-of-sight between the two devices.  You would need somewhat different equipment from what I'm using.  A dish type antenna would concentrate the signal better, and the two dishes have to be pointed to within a few degrees of each other.  Also, having a more powerful radio in the bridges wouldn't hurt.  On the summit you would need a solar panel, charge controller and battery (assuming there is no power source up there).  A 12v system would do the job, since your PoE cable is short (minimal voltage drop from resistance in the ethernet cable).

 

For the bridge hardware, two of these units should work nicely:

https://www.amazon.c...duct/B0713XMHH9

 

Supposedly these have a range of 8-9 miles, but I would take that with a grain of salt. But for the 2.2 to 4.5 mile distances you referenced, they seem appropriate.

 

You would also need the poE injectors as mentioned in my previous post.  And since one of the bridges is sitting exposed on the top of the hill, make sure the it is well grounded and has a lightening arrestor.  BTW I don't mean to be pushing Ubiquiti products, but that is what I used for my setup and I'm familiar with their product line.

 

Mind you, I have never actually done the setup I describe above, but it should work as it is well within the specs for these bridges.  There are probably other barriers you'll need to overcome, but this would get you connected.  Seems like it would make for a neat project!



#11 Rickster

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 12:08 PM

You have me thinking now.  That opens up some possibilities.  I hadn't even suspected that something with that range was available. 



#12 Noah4x4

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:42 PM

You have me thinking now.  That opens up some possibilities.  I hadn't even suspected that something with that range was available. 

Me too, until I discovered that 'point to point' long range Wireless extenders work great. My discovery was nothing to do with astronomy. I was affixing a wireless long range CCTV camera and it then struck me, why not for astronomy? That's why I started this thread.

 

These, and Power over Ethernet (POE) opens up exciting possibilities for astronomy. Imagine a camera with a single cable carrying power and data. Chucks idea into ring and steps back to see if any manufacturer takes it up.....

 

You can even pair these units with a small solar panel that will charge a battery during the day. This technology is now in common use with CCTV. For remote observatories, we have an entire new raft of technology to explore.


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