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Finally getting a workflow together, appreciate any comments from the gurus here

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#1 Tulloch

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:42 AM

Hi there, so after a few months of observing, photographing and fighting the many and varied software programs out there, I feel I'm finally getting to a point at which I have a decent workflow for processing my images. I would especially like to thank everyone on this forum who have supported me get to this point, I still have a way to go but thought I'd just put this out there and see what feedback I get.

 

Since I'm using a 6" SCT with a Canon 700D on an Alt-Az mount, there's are few extra bits in my workflow required to remove field rotation (thanks to Darryl aka Kokatha Man and Christophe Pellier for their help) with WinJupos. I still don't love wavelet sharpening in Registax, but I think I've got some reasonable values for my image sizes that kind of work for me. If there's a good alternative I'm all ears smile.gif. Using the workflow below, I've been able to get some decent images of the recent transit of Europa (see below). I don't like sharpening too hard and making Jupiter appear clown like, but maybe I could go harder.

 

I also find it interesting that my images of Jupiter appear much more yellow/red than others posting here, maybe this is due to the DSLR vs ZWO cameras? Anyway, my workflow is below, interested in any feedback, thanks.

 

1. Take 5000 – 10000 frames in a single session @ 20fps, 5 - 10 loops of 1000
2. Add frames to PIPP to convert to lossless ULRG avi, flip vertical and horizontal as necessary to get into WinJupos format, both for direct imaging, horizontal when using diagonal. Centre, crop and offset as required, set framerate to measured value.
3. Use first frame from new avi as measurement frame for WinJupos, convert to UT for measurement.
4. Run de-rotate video in WinJupos, remembering to use UT for both video and image file. Click both “Compensation of field rotation” and “Accurate Signal frame calc”. Save as ser file.
5. Drag de-rotated video file into AS!3 and process normally. Choose 25/50/75% stacking options, 30-40 alignment points, RGB align, Laplace Δ 6, no double stacking.
6. Drag stacked images to Registax, choose “Jupiter scheme medium.rwv”, save to file.
7. Take sharpened images to Photoshop, use “Easy.Filter / SmartCurve” and press “Auto”, set max L channel to 240.
8. Add PS sharpening, try 100% with pixel size 2.0, noise reduction & saturation as necessary.
9. Rotate final image to straighten, crop and fill with black colour as necessary.

 

Image from 5000 frames using this workflow, best 25% stacked.

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 2019-05-17-1603_3-JUPITER_Tv140s_100iso_1024x688_20190518_02h01m09s_loop01_000001_pipp-DeRot_l6_ap38 waveletless photoshopped.png

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#2 RedLionNJ

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:29 PM

Perhaps it's just my interpretation of what you're saying, but I wouldn't go about it in that way:

 

1. Take 5000 – 10000 frames in a single session @ 20fps, 5 - 10 loops of 1000

What format are you recording in? You should be able to get up to around 28fps or so with some tether apps (e.g. BackyardEOS)

 

2. Add frames to PIPP to convert to lossless ULRG avi, flip vertical and horizontal as necessary to get into WinJupos format, both for direct imaging, horizontal when using diagonal. Centre, crop and offset as required, set framerate to measured value.

I'm totally not seeing the point in this - what format is the original data (point 1)?

 

3. Use first frame from new avi as measurement frame for WinJupos, convert to UT for measurement.

I would use the mid-point frame for this purpose, like planetary capture apps do.

 

4. Run de-rotate video in WinJupos, remembering to use UT for both video and image file. Click both “Compensation of field rotation” and “Accurate Signal frame calc”. Save as ser file.

De-rotate video in Winjupos has never worked well for me for anything less than excellent seeing. Maybe others' experiences are different.  In order to derotate a video properly, each raw frame has to be hyper-sharp.

 

5. Drag de-rotated video file into AS!3 and process normally. Choose 25/50/75% stacking options, 30-40 alignment points, RGB align, Laplace Δ 6, no double stacking.

Those settings are all going to be seeing-dependent. Except double-stacking - I've never seen that work for Jupiter. Best to leave it disabled as you say.

 

6. Drag stacked images to Registax, choose “Jupiter scheme medium.rwv”, save to file.

Depends on the content of the rwv. Every user has different preferences and while there are definitely multiple ways to skin a cat equally well, experimentation works best here, particularly as seeing is the largest variable on a nightly (or even hourly) basis.

 

7. Take sharpened images to Photoshop, use “Easy.Filter / SmartCurve” and press “Auto”, set max L channel to 240.

With a good result from R6, this will be unnecessary. It won't add anything of value

 

8. Add PS sharpening, try 100% with pixel size 2.0, noise reduction & saturation as necessary.

Same as #7 - I think you're over-complicating things - plus there is no one 'recipe' for every data set.

 

9. Rotate final image to straighten, crop and fill with black colour as necessary.

This sounds redundant, but is perhaps a by-product of an earlier step? I usually have Winjupos do this during derotation/stacking.

 

 

I get your intent but I think it's a common mistake a lot of hi-res imaging rookies make. This is just too many steps. It's going to kill the ease/joy of processing. And that in turn is going to kill the joy of attempting hi-res data capture. There's a business software company out there with a mantra "Run Simple". There's a lot to that. Simple is efficient, simple takes less time/effort. If you're blessed with really good conditions night after night, you're going to need a simpler procedure, less involved.

 

That's MY 2c here.


Edited by RedLionNJ, 22 May 2019 - 03:30 PM.

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#3 Tulloch

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:39 PM

Hi there, thanks for taking the time to comment on the process. Of course, you are right, it's an awful lot of steps to make, it wasn't until I decided to write it all down that I was able to look back and say, "Wow, that's a lot of processing". There are a couple of comments I will make however:

 

1. I currently use BackyardEOS, and 20fps is the maximum for the 700D (should have got a 600D). Same framerate for EOS Camera Movie Record, this is a hardware issue. That being said, I probably should record in avi, but jpgs give me more flexibility.

 

2. I need to get the image the right way up for WinJupos. BYEOS will only record what it gets from the camera, cant record upside down and left to right in the software (at least, I think I can't). WinJupos can't flip the recording either (at least I don't think it can).

 

3. Point noted, I had no idea, thanks for this.

 

4. I use WinJupos mainly for field de-rotation, it also help for Jupiter's moons. Compare the image above with the first one below, taken for 5 minutes and stacked in AS!3 without going through the WinJupos route. Notice how Io (moon on bottom left) is completely smeared out due to field rotation. Taking shorter videos reduces this, but then I get severe horizontal and/or vertical banding in the stacked & sharpened images (see second image below) which I attributed to not having enough good frames to stack. Happy to be put right on this score if this is not the case.

 

5. Agree, I used to double stack but after reading posts from here, I've stopped.

 

6,7,8. Agree, sometimes I need to play around with the images a bit, or maybe I just need to love Registax a bit more and use some more of its functions. I do like the control in Photoshop, maybe because I'm just more familiar with it.

 

9. I didn't know I could output an "aligned" video in WinJupos, I've been doing it by eye (which is a pain btw). Any tips here?

 

Thanks again for your comments, I've started my processing by trying to keep it simple as you suggest, but kept running into issues which need another step to fix. Maybe I'm being too picky, but I figure if I'm going to take the trouble to lug the scope out, set it up, sit in the cold and dark for hours on end, I at least owe it to myself to try and get the best of what I can collect. I know that a lot of this processing could be alleviated with a better camera (looking at an ASI290MC at $450) and a polar mount (write your own price) but they will have to wait for now.

 

Thanks again, Andrew.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 5000 1st_5000_l6_ap41 wavelet cropped.png
  • JUPITER_Tv140s_100iso_1024x688_20190518-02h01m09s-loop01_l6_ap22 waveletless cropped with horiz banding.png

Edited by Tulloch, 22 May 2019 - 06:41 PM.

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#4 ToxMan

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 12:14 PM

Kudos, Grant for responding...I got a headache.

 

For a couple hundred bucks, a wedge will cure my headache!


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#5 Tulloch

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 03:41 PM

It's not that bad, is it ToxMan rofl2.gif ? I reckon I still have more to go, I think I also need to stack the stacked images over different sessions in WinJupos. This might be overkill with a 6", but I'll try it once and see what I get...

 

I've also thought about a wedge, but they cost almost as much as a new polar mount. They also don't seem to get a good review on this site.

 

Thanks, Andrew



#6 ToxMan

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 06:39 PM

Just ribbing ya a little, Andrew.

 

This member has done some very nice work using DSLRs: https://www.cloudyni...58-bq-octantis/

 

Consider a PM for some help with workflow or check out some of the past posts.

 

Good luck, nice image, and welcome to the forum!


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#7 Tulloch

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 07:43 PM

No worries Tox, I've learnt a lot from trawling through the forums and still have a way to go to get it down right. I've had some discussions with BQ already about imaging and processing, he uses eyepiece projection for his images which gives very good results for him.

 

I prefer to post on the forums rather than PM people out of the blue, no-one likes getting unsolicited messages from strangers smile.gif.

 

Thanks, Andrew




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