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How much more is out there for great DSO imaging outside the Messier Cat.

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#1 Ballyhoo

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:04 PM

It is somewhat astounding that Charles Messier was not looking for pretty images to satisfy his quench for observing the heavens, but somehow, the list of objects that he came up with, so far constitutes most all of the object I have ever imaged. It is a wonderful list to go through and in fact I was browsing through my copy of O'meara's book. Seriously, how much more is there for astro-imaging than the Messiers? I know there is the NGC, UGC, etc. But how much detail and spectacular images could you glean outside of the Messiers?

 



#2 Stelios

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:21 PM

Tons. Just random things I imaged last year: Cave nebula, Pelican nebula, Bubble nebula, Tadpoles nebula, Crescent nebula, Helix nebula, Iris nebula, Wizard nebula, Elephant Trunk nebula, Pacman nebula, Flaming Star nebula, Gamma Cygni nebula, Western Veil, Heart nebula, Soul nebula, Fireworks galaxy, Jellyfish nebula, Ghost of Cassiopeia, NGC 7331 Galaxy, Stephan's Quintet. 

 

Many, many more out there. 

 

Really. This book (yes, a different Bracken!) will give you a great start on imaging list, plus a catalogue of most objects worth imaging.


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#3 Ishtim

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:36 PM

van den berg (vdB) catalog is a good starting point, then there's the NGC/IC project as well...

Perhaps google will aid in your search...
https://en.wikipedia...ical_catalogues

Of course many of these are "sky limited", but as the Hubble Space Telescope has showed us, it depends on "how deep" you can see... bow.gif


Edited by Ishtim, 22 May 2019 - 09:36 PM.

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#4 Ballyhoo

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:43 PM

van den berg (vdB) catalog is a good starting point, then there's the NGC/IC project as well...

Perhaps google will aid in your search...
https://en.wikipedia...ical_catalogues

Of course many of these are "sky limited", but as the Hubble Space Telescope has showed us, it depends on "how deep" you can see... bow.gif

I know there are tons of catalouges, but not all objects are great for imaging. It seels that Messier list was designed for imagers in mind. 

 

What % of your images come from the Messier catalogue? I ask everyone here. I bet it is vast majority.



#5 17.5Dob

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:59 PM

What's a Messier Catalog ????

 

I would say less than 10% of my images are in the M catalog...probably less.

90% of the "best" nebula for imaging are NOT in the M-catalog.........seriously !!!



 


Edited by 17.5Dob, 22 May 2019 - 10:05 PM.

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#6 ImNewHere

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:59 PM

The Caldwell catalog and loads of the NGC and IC catalog. Check out telescopius.com and have it sort by magnitude and object type.


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#7 psandelle

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:06 PM

What's a Messier Catalog ????

 

90% of the "best" nebula for imaging are NOT in the M-catalog.........seriously !!!



 

What he said. Messier was just busy lookin’ fer comets.

 

Paul


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#8 TelescopeGreg

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:09 PM

I know there are tons of catalouges, but not all objects are great for imaging. It seels that Messier list was designed for imagers in mind. 

 

What % of your images come from the Messier catalogue? I ask everyone here. I bet it is vast majority.

Given that Charles Messier died well before cameras were invented, that's not possible.  I think it's more a reflection that these objects were about the limit of what could be seen with the optics of his day.

 

Today we can see a lot more - smaller objects, dimmer objects - all wonderful sights to see, and things that Ol' Chuck could never dream of setting sight of.  Of course, remember his catalog was there for our benefit, as things not to waste our time on since they weren't comets, so it's unlikely he'd even be interested in any of them.

 

We were up at the Lick Observatory a few summers ago, at one of their open house events.  Got a look through the 36" refractor at the core of M13.  Wow.  One of the talks was about Messier and his catalog, with the speaker noting that his obsession with comets ruined his marriage.  As one audience member quipped, "He spent too much time chasing tail"...


Edited by TelescopeGreg, 22 May 2019 - 10:13 PM.

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#9 mikefulb

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:32 PM

I recommend learning how to use something like aladin:

 

https://aladin.u-strasbg.fr/

 

and then just start browsing around the sky for targets.  I've found a lot of the 'off the beaten path' objects I've imaged this way.

 

They also have an online browser but you can't adjust the stretch so its harder to find fainter nebular structures - but something like "The Snake" (Barnard 72) shows up nicely:

 

http://aladin.unistr...ey=P/DSS2/color

 

This is a program I believe professional astronomers designed and use but it is available for everyone.


Edited by mikefulb, 22 May 2019 - 10:32 PM.

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#10 WarmWeatherGuy

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:37 PM

This book has 100 color photos of interesting / popular astrophotography targets. Click on the look-inside button. For some reason the pictures are not in color. My book has color pictures.

 

For each picture you get camera used, telescope used, exposure time(s), field of view, # of exposures, and target designation/ra/dec/size/magnitude. There is a chapter for each month of the year so the targets are sorted by RA.

 

The 100 Best Astrophotography Targets: A Monthly Guide for CCD Imaging with Amateur Telescopes (The Patrick Moore Practical Astronomy Series)


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#11 TelescopeGreg

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 10:57 PM

Another good tool is http://tonightssky.com/MainPage.php where you dial up what you're looking for - target type, magnitude, etc. - and out pops a guide to that night's sky.


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#12 2ghouls

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 11:05 PM

What % of your images come from the Messier catalogue? I ask everyone here. 

About 5% (1 in 20 images). I like shooting big nebulae almost exclusively and the Messier catalog only includes a few. 

 

I made a video and webpage with a bunch of links and resources about how I choose objects to image: https://www.nebulaph...urces/planning/

 

There is a LOT out there smile.gif


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#13 TOMDEY

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 11:24 PM

It's an emotional topic, but here's my take, from 50 years of looking at and imaging stuff:

 

>Messier catalogued around half of the big, splashy discrete Deep Sky targets optimized for today's ~smaller~ imagers (~up to 125mm); that is, as available from his mid-northern latitude.

>If you have a bigger imaging system (~up to 12-in)... an easy thousand DS objects become major/worthy targets of interest.

>If you have a huge system... that explodes to effectively unlimited number.

 

I have noticed that we here, on CN, tend to capture the same few dozen targets (90% of posted images?) over and over again. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all! We all want to snag: Horsehead, Orion Nebl, Andromeda Galaxy, Dumbbell, Hercules Great Globular, Veil, Markarian's Chain, Rosette,...

 

My imaging strategy has always been to alternate comfortable familiars with obscure wallflowers... especially ones that I expect no one at all is going after. Like all those "little" NGC galaxies splashed all over the Uranometria charts. I'll sometimes look at and image a few ~just because~

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#14 Chucke

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 01:04 AM

My to-do list has about 2000 objects and growing but I shoot at 3100 mm so most of them are small.  



#15 schmeah

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 05:10 AM

It's an emotional topic, but here's my take, from 50 years of looking at and imaging stuff:

 

>Messier catalogued around half of the big, splashy discrete Deep Sky targets optimized for today's ~smaller~ imagers (~up to 125mm); that is, as available from his mid-northern latitude.

>If you have a bigger imaging system (~up to 12-in)... an easy thousand DS objects become major/worthy targets of interest.

>If you have a huge system... that explodes to effectively unlimited number.

 

I have noticed that we here, on CN, tend to capture the same few dozen targets (90% of posted images?) over and over again. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all! We all want to snag: Horsehead, Orion Nebl, Andromeda Galaxy, Dumbbell, Hercules Great Globular, Veil, Markarian's Chain, Rosette,...

 

My imaging strategy has always been to alternate comfortable familiars with obscure wallflowers... especially ones that I expect no one at all is going after. Like all those "little" NGC galaxies splashed all over the Uranometria charts. I'll sometimes look at and image a few ~just because~

 

Love your post. But curious why you chose NGC 7402. Looked at a few images. She really is a drab looking little lenticular. Perhaps she has a great personality :)

 

Derek



#16 HydrogenAlpha

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 06:26 AM

Just did a quick count of my gallery images, and 7 out of the 33 are from the Messier catalog, so about 20%. Most of my images are in the NGC/IC catalog. The Messier catalog is quite limited..there are a few spectacular objects like M31 and M42, but many of the others are generic globulars, OCs, or ellipticals which aren't too interesting as imaging targets. 


Edited by HydrogenAlpha, 23 May 2019 - 06:26 AM.


#17 TOMDEY

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 08:05 AM

Love your post. But curious why you chose NGC 7402. Looked at a few images. She really is a drab looking little lenticular. Perhaps she has a great personality smile.gif

Derek

Hi, Derek! 7402 dominates a nice intimate family group, which targets I favour with my 36-inch telescope. With that much aperture, one can just point the scope in any direction, grab the Night Vision Eyepiece and/or KAF16803 and do a nice, penetrating image, and then count the myriad galaxies --- much like the oft-touted Hubble ~Deep Field~ philosophy. Just as we find stars in all directions... we also find galaxies in all directions and seasons. The only devoid regions are where lumbering M-zero (my moniker for the Milky Way Galaxy) is blocking our view of the others!

 

Here's my old picture of Stephan's Quintet and NGC7331, that I shot on film after looking at them, back in ~1980. I would always scrutinize the region for other suspect ~background galaxies~ and always find bunches.    Tom.

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#18 OldManSky

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 08:12 AM

Open up Cartes du Ciel.  Set it up so your imaging rig frame is displayed.

Zoom in just a bit, and wander around the sky.  You'll be amazed at the number of non-Messier targets you'll find.

I just pointed mine to the southern end of Cassiopeia, and found enough targets to keep me busy for several months (below)!

 

 

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#19 nimitz69

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:05 AM

Love your post. But curious why you chose NGC 7402. Looked at a few images. She really is a drab looking little lenticular. Perhaps she has a great personality smile.gif

 

Derek

I suspect all those sentients  living in that galaxy would take offense at your submissive characterization of their home ....


Edited by nimitz69, 24 May 2019 - 10:15 AM.

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#20 psandelle

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:05 AM

Sky Safari even has most catalogs (and you can download more) and with your FOV setting, you should be able to find lots and lots and lots. It's so simple even a child can do it (and do at the dark site I go to). I'm not sure why anyone would think the Messier Cat would be the end-all, be-all. Heck, the Perseus double cluster isn't even in there, and that's a big-azz naked eye monster. That's why as a kid me and the Norton's Star Atlas would always head to the NGC objects.

 

Paul



#21 tomwall

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 12:22 PM

I'd just like to second the recommendation for the Tonight's Sky web site. It's a good place to start and will give you a good half dozen likely targets of different types.

 

Tom,

Tucson



#22 ChrisWhite

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 01:40 PM

Surprised to see this question. The good news for the OP, is that (as others have already pointed out) there are practically an unlimited supply of targets out there. I would even go so far as to add... for any focal length. Even in galaxy season widefield can be used to capture galaxies in their natural environment. Lots of "context" in the blank parts of the sky surrounding the targets we image.
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#23 Ballyhoo

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 01:50 PM

Surprised to see this question. The good news for the OP, is that (as others have already pointed out) there are practically an unlimited supply of targets out there. I would even go so far as to add... for any focal length. Even in galaxy season widefield can be used to capture galaxies in their natural environment. Lots of "context" in the blank parts of the sky surrounding the targets we image.

It is not so much as a specific question to find out for me what there is besides  the M cat, but I would like to hear from others what else people are imaging. and why?

 

Because it seems like the most outstanding objects are on the Messier catalog. 



#24 kyle528

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 02:00 PM

When you run out of things to image, there’s always the Southern Hemisphere...


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#25 ChrisWhite

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 02:03 PM

 

Because it seems like the most outstanding objects are on the Messier catalog. 

 

This is why it surprises me.  There are many outstanding objects out there that are not in the Messier catalog....


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