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Is anyone else following this starlink deployment?

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#1 CounterWeight

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:39 PM

Looks like it's off to a great start.


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#2 llanitedave

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 12:43 PM

I was surprised by the way it was deployed as a single stack all at once.  There's really some outside the box thinking going on at SpaceX.


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#3 CounterWeight

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 01:02 PM

Yes, I'm always impressed the way we get a ring side seat with what they do. And here a small constellation of satellites in a single space shot.  For me this is another 'that's amazing' moment from SpaceX.

 

Clever orbital collision avoidance, pointing / orientation capabilities, designed to get nearer 100% disintegration on re-entry. 



#4 kb7wox

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 06:51 PM

https://vimeo.com/338361997


Edited by kb7wox, 24 May 2019 - 06:55 PM.


#5 CounterWeight

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 10:04 AM

Wow what a sight! though an astro imagers nightmare.  How long before wacky conspiracy theories evolve?  Thanks for posting that. 



#6 Todd N

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 08:04 AM

Wow what a sight! though an astro imagers nightmare.  How long before wacky conspiracy theories evolve?  Thanks for posting that. 

I was thinking likewise, when this network is fully deployed is every frame going to be littered with streaks? Why the hell does the third world need the internet? Shouldn't clean water be a priority?



#7 CounterWeight

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 11:45 AM

That and or maybe better garbage and sewage management by the 'developed' world?

 

Interesting to read folks impressions over current deployment in the observing forum.



#8 llanitedave

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 12:18 PM

I was thinking likewise, when this network is fully deployed is every frame going to be littered with streaks? Why the hell does the third world need the internet? Shouldn't clean water be a priority?

Why can't they have both?


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#9 Mister T

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 03:10 PM

I was thinking likewise, when this network is fully deployed is every frame going to be littered with streaks? Why the hell does the third world need the internet? Shouldn't clean water be a priority?

They need internet so when the 1st world exploiters are there, they need to be able to contact their board rooms and investors...


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#10 Todd N

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 08:41 PM

They need internet so when the 1st world exploiters are there, they need to be able to contact their board rooms and investors...

If they have nothing to exploit then  development, wealth and technology will not come their way.



#11 EJN

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 10:42 AM

Judging from the reaction in the General Observing forum, if you are a deep-sky observer/imager

and support pristine skies uncontaminated by both light pollution and stuff in space,

and also are a fan of SpaceX/Starlink, you are caught between a rock and a hard place, because

supporting both is an act of cognitive dissonance.


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#12 CounterWeight

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 11:56 AM

Just read an article where one  academic astronomer is sounding the alarm of what may be the end result.  I've been curious at the lack of press from that community.  They may no longer actually look through the scopes but it wont matter if you are institutional or amature if your view and or data gets compromised.



#13 llanitedave

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 09:55 PM

Judging from the reaction in the General Observing forum, if you are a deep-sky observer/imager

and support pristine skies uncontaminated by both light pollution and stuff in space,

and also are a fan of SpaceX/Starlink, you are caught between a rock and a hard place, because

supporting both is an act of cognitive dissonance.

Not necessarily cognitive dissonance, but it is a pretty tough balancing act.  For  purely visual astronomy, I don't see it as being much of an issue.  It's an aesthetic offense for some, another source of interest for others.

 

For imaging, it's a bit more of a problem, but when you consider the demands of several billion potential users of Starlink vs those of some tens of thousands (at the very most) of imagers, it's not hard to see who's going to lose.  More to the point, technology giveth as well as taketh away.  I can see a software solution being put in place, where the location of each satellite is tracked precisely, and exposures can be automatically switched off for the fractions of a second where the satellite is in the field.

 

Maybe with the right lobbying, licensing of the constellations could be contingent on making such data into free software, perhaps with a GPL license allowing others to build more sophisticated response capabilities on top of it...

 

If it turns into skyglow, then THAT's another matter altogether!



#14 EJN

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 10:35 PM

I can see a software solution being put in place...

 

Time for imaging software to get tough,

Kappa-sigma median is not enough.

 

 

 

 

(Users of Deep Sky Stacker will get this)


Edited by EJN, 29 May 2019 - 10:37 PM.


#15 CounterWeight

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 11:13 PM

Well if you know the exact position and the image was reasonably aligned to that spot, maybe?  Problem is you cant put missing data back into an image, though there are some interpolative techniques, though i found they could cause as many artifacts as they could cure.  Sure you can also use what I call 'painting tools' but then to me not really an image anymore.


Edited by CounterWeight, 29 May 2019 - 11:17 PM.


#16 skyguy88

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 12:39 AM

On Saturday night the public outreach live video program at Lowell Observatory was displaying NGC 5353 and its very bright supernova when along came the Musk train. The gal running the program snapped an image. The SN and host galaxy are clearly visible. http://darksky.org/starlink-response/  The system included a CGEM mounted C11 and a Mallincam Xterminator at F3.

 

Bill McDonald


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#17 EJN

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 09:13 AM

Now SpaceX can photobomb astrophotographers

 

(Link to image posted in general observing forum)

 

oE8YPeWn4_yZ_1824x0_OyPSuE6z.jpg


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#18 EJN

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 09:53 AM

Just read an article where one  academic astronomer is sounding the alarm of what may be the end result.  I've been curious at the lack of press from that community. 

 

Here ya go:

 

https://phys.org/new...stronomers.html

 

https://www.skyandte...ink-satellites/

 

https://www.livescie...s-starlink.html

 

https://www.theverge...light-pollution

 

https://www.nydailyn...6dfm-story.html

 

https://www.cnet.com...or-astronomers/

 

https://www.technolo...rs-arent-happy/

 

https://www.newscien...ng-astronomers/

 

https://www.axios.co...3bd02ebf18.html

 

https://www.express....pdate-astronomy

 

https://www.forbes.c...-are-not-happy/


Edited by EJN, 30 May 2019 - 10:07 AM.

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#19 EJN

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 10:18 AM

One other point to ponder: all these satellites will be transmitting in the Ka & Ku bands, which

could wreak havoc for radio astronomy. For example, the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation

is studied from the ground in the Ka band.


Edited by EJN, 30 May 2019 - 10:35 AM.


#20 llanitedave

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 04:59 PM

That seems more problematic than the visuals.


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#21 CounterWeight

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 05:32 PM

I am wondering if somewhat same idea will be used for the constellation for our moon?  By that I mean single launch and deployment technique.



#22 Ishtim

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 09:12 AM

There are deep concerns at ALL levels of astronomy, not just visual observers and those of us that make pretty pictures.
Most of us have heard of the PANSTARRS program. Its primary mission is to detect Near-Earth Objects that threaten impact events.  The effects of Elon's money scheme/dream of making internet available to all reaches of the globe creates issues for REAL science that provides us earthlings an early detection warning system. 

 

“This is going to hurt us perhaps more than” other survey telescopes.

 

When a satellite passes through the area, it “will make a streak through our field of view and ruin anything under the streak,” he explained. “If there is a bright satellite going across the image, you can’t see under the light.”

Sure, there are ways to mitigate the effects of extra junk in orbit, but it will come at a price to both private and public sectors.

 "Compensating for the ever-increasing presence of satellites would involve spending more money on cameras and telescopes."

 
There's more in this article, it contains discussions with one of the PANSTARRS astronomers and it even goes into the effects of the new LEDs on LP.  
https://www.mauinews...lescope-images/
 


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#23 EJN

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:05 PM

The people building the LSST (Large Synoptic Survey Telescope) are probably not too happy either.


Edited by EJN, 11 June 2019 - 06:32 PM.


#24 llanitedave

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 02:42 PM

The people building the LSST (Large Synoptic Survey Telescope) are probably not too happy either.

https://www.aura-ast...-of-satellites/

 

The Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy (AURA) is the managing organization for many ground-based telescopes for National Science Foundation (NSF), both extant and under construction. We note that the launch of the Starlink system may have impacts on the observational capabilities of these facilities.

One facility is the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope (LSST), under construction by NSF in Chile and slated to begin wide-field imaging of the sky in 2021. LSST will create an astronomical survey that depends on dark skies for its core science. LSST’s frequent imaging of the same region of sky will be a mitigating factor for Starlink interference, providing enough uncontaminated images to reject the images that contain satellite trails or other anomalies.

In the case of the full constellation of Starlink satellites, initial calculations show that LSST images would, on average, contain about one satellite trail per visit for an hour or two after sunset and before sunrise. A very conservative upper limit on the number of LSST pixels affected by Starlink satellites is about 0.01%, and quite likely smaller. Therefore, for LSST, even a constellation of about 10,000 Starlink satellites would be a nuisance rather than a real problem.

We emphasize, however, that the impact of satellite constellations on other AURA telescopes that have wider fields, longer exposures, and/or less sophisticated data processing pipelines may be much more significant. Furthermore, Starlink may be only the first in a series of new technologies that could impact LSST and other ground-based astronomy facilities.

We believe that the design and implementation of these constellations should be undertaken in consultation with the astronomical community to minimize their impact. For a discussion of broader impact of satellites on research in astronomy, please see a statement on satellite constellations by the International Astronomical Union.

 

Not ideal for them, but as they say, a nuisance rather than a real problem.



#25 Ishtim

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 05:04 PM

True, but....

We emphasize, however, that the impact of satellite constellations on other AURA telescopes that have wider fields, longer exposures, and/or less sophisticated data processing pipelines may be much more significant. Furthermore, Starlink may be only the first in a series of new technologies that could impact LSST and other ground-based astronomy facilities.

 

There are other companies that have plans to do similar deployments.  We have to remember, this guy shot a car into space for "fun".




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