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Is STARLINK going to impact astrophotography?

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#101 Lucullus

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 09:55 AM

What will be the life span of those satellites in space before they burn in the atmosphere?



#102 nimitz69

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Posted 27 December 2019 - 12:41 PM

 I guess its time to sell all my AP gear, burn down my recently built observatory .... should make a nice deposit on buying another Cabo 35 offshore short fishing boat .... dalek12.gif


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#103 InFINNity

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 03:54 AM

Elon Musk painted one of his SVs black to minimise glare. Last week French satellite-hunter Thierry Legault checked the difference:

 

https://youtu.be/6E_qyAyvugA

 

Nicolàs


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#104 Lucullus

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 06:55 AM

I had a feeling that they can't paint the satellite as black that it would hardly be seen anymore because I suspected the solar irradiance to heat the satellite too much to be working properly. In this case they'd need larg(er?) radiators to emit the absorbed energy again. But the additional radiator area would render the blackened satellite core body ineffective concerning hiding the whole satellite from view as they'd work as sunlight reflectors again. Would be an interesting study how large blackened(!) radiators would need to be in order to emit all the absorbed visual wavelengths in the thermal infrared. I leave that to someone who had a radiation heat transfer lecture in college. I assume it wouldn't work, besides creating a community of angry ground-based IR astronomers flame.gif who would get 42'000 bright IR sources this way.

Ultimate solution: restrict the Starlink constellation to about as many satellites as the other planned constellations, or better force the companies to only create a single constellation with the individual companies having a share on the satellites and the customers decides from which company they want online access. This strategy works for all power plants feeding their electricity into the electric grid and the end consumer can decide from which producer they want their electricity and bill from. Why shouldn't it work for space online access.

Even better, ... I can't write that.


Edited by Lucullus, 28 January 2020 - 07:03 AM.

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#105 Jon Rista

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 11:23 PM

"There is no question that the entire world is entitled to be connected to the internet…. So it's going to happen."

 

This infuriates me. Internet connectivity is NOT an entitlement!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


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#106 calypsob

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 11:59 PM

Whos blowing up Musk’s twitter feed?

Edited by calypsob, 28 January 2020 - 11:59 PM.


#107 Jon Rista

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Posted 30 January 2020 - 11:40 AM

Whos blowing up Musk’s twitter feed?

Even if we did, he'd probably just toke a blunt and shrug. 


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#108 InFINNity

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 11:40 AM

It appears that the FCC has broken the law, making room for a law suit.

 

Perhaps that would wake up Musk...

 

Nicolàs


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#109 GrafikDihzahyn

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 02:09 PM

Here are just a few of my subs of M42 from last weekend. 60-75% of my images had these..

 

Luckily DSS took care of them with no noticeable artifacts.

Attached Thumbnails

  • F_starlink-02.jpeg

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#110 Delta608

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 02:32 PM

  Looks like scratches on your negatives from pulling the strip through the enlarger....grin.gif


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#111 auroraTDunn

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 03:15 PM

Could we start a grass-roots movement to have them painted flat black?   Or are there thermal issues? 

Actually after some initial response to this horrible condition the second batch launched did indeed have what they 'thought' reduced the reflection off them making them more black. But the change is only noticeable when someone does an in-depth photo forensics comparison into it (which everyone here is capable of in their sleep). In theory they 'claim' they are looking into better solutions (my guess is better filters on their EMail and other sources so the problem vanishes to them - Morons!). I'm thinking that what we will have to resort to in the very near future is using deep learning methods to find and remove, ala content aware fill like reconstructions, on each plate. Not the best solution and kinda causes other major issues (coughItsBadSciencecough) but it could be the route we get stuck with in the future when there are THOUSANDS of them up there!



#112 akulapanam

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 03:32 PM

All this complaining needs to be directed into the FCC dockets approving these launches as well as raising this issue with your congressional office (in parallel with political donations). Additional issues to bring up are public safety (asteroid avoidance) and the fact that it makes Space Commands more difficult to differentiate between possible satellite threats from foreign actors. I also would think cellular and land based internet providers would support this issue for purely shellfish reasons.
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#113 Thierry Legault

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 03:55 AM

Elon Musk painted one of his SVs black to minimise glare. Last week French satellite-hunter Thierry Legault checked the difference:

 

https://youtu.be/6E_qyAyvugA

 

Nicolàs

 

Last week I took another video of units from the first launch (May 2019) in final orbit (530 km): https://youtu.be/MLFA1JnRIeA

 

My estimate of peak magnitude is m3.5 to m4, easily visible to the naked eye, fading to m5 then m6 as they go away to East (sunrise). They are still lit at the zenith with the Sun at -22°, therefore visible on half the sky, in dark night after astronomical twilight (Sun at -18°).

We will see how the "darksat" behaves once in its final orbit, but I'm afraid it won't make a huge difference... frown.gif


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#114 Francois

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 04:07 AM

Here are just a few of my subs of M42 from last weekend. 60-75% of my images had these..

 

Luckily DSS took care of them with no noticeable artifacts.

Those are going east-west in Orion. Not starlink/oneweb/anything in an inclined orbit.



#115 Francois

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 04:09 AM

Last week I took another video of units from the first launch (May 2019) in final orbit (530 km): https://youtu.be/MLFA1JnRIeA

 

My estimate of peak magnitude is m3.5 to m4, easily visible to the naked eye, fading to m5 then m6 as they go away to East (sunrise). They are still lit at the zenith with the Sun at -22°, therefore visible on half the sky, in dark night after astronomical twilight (Sun at -18°).

We will see how the "darksat" behaves once in its final orbit, but I'm afraid it won't make a huge difference... frown.gif

 

Which is exactly what the geometry of the problem would predict. Yes, things will suck at higher latitudes.



#116 InFINNity

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 04:40 AM

Hi Thierry,

 

thanks for joining this discussion and showing us your latest video. You are doing great work. Just ventilating our gut-feeling about this network is of course quite subjective, but people like you make the difference by actually doing measurements and showing that indeed (for the moment) there is not much difference between a painted and not-painted satellite!

 

Cheers!

Nicolàs


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#117 GrafikDihzahyn

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:03 PM

Those are going east-west in Orion. Not starlink/oneweb/anything in an inclined orbit.

 

What other satellites are in groups? All the more reason we don’t need more garbage up there.

 

Internet isn’t what impoverished countries and citizens need. It’s food and water. TikTok and the Kardashians don’t need anymore subscribers.. /rant


Edited by GrafikDihzahyn, 02 February 2020 - 02:04 PM.

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#118 Francois

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:12 PM

What other satellites are in groups? All the more reason we don’t need more garbage up there. 

Geostationary/geosynchronous satellites, with the ones particularly close together being shared slots. They've been there for decades already.


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#119 InFINNity

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 08:25 AM

In edition 73 of Amateur Astrophotography Magazine an exhaustive article is published on pp.12-23 by Stefano Gallozzi, Marco Scardia and Michele Maris, three Italian astronomers. It discusses the various mega-sv-constellations, their impact on science, and shows how the US government can be held accountable for the damage done, based on several international conventions and treaties. Hopefully someone with enough influence (and finances) will pick up the glove thrown here, so that this will not become the next CFC, carbon fuel emission, or plastic disaster to deal with for future generations....

 

Nicolàs

 

PS today I have been in contact with Stefano Gallozzi and given him the link to Theirry's recording of the 'darksat'.


Edited by InFINNity, 09 February 2020 - 01:11 PM.

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#120 smccully

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 03:25 PM

So apparently SpaceX is going to SpinOff Starlink as a different business. I can't think SpaceX is very aware of how Financially exposed Starlink will be to Lawsuits and is trying to protect itself. I can't think how a Class Action lawsuit is not already in the works. 



#121 Lucullus

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 03:44 PM

On the other hand, I heard in some local media that any or at least quite a few relatively influencial entity, like states and large organisations, would be cautious with criticism because any critics might well backfire once said entity tries to do something similar. And, thus, any fears that nothing substantial concerning downscaling of those constellation fleet plans happens are not ill-founded.

*Put in swear word* ... I can't stand the mere thought of not experiencing any colourful dusks anymore in the future without numberous cliterings of annoying internet-satellites.



#122 GrafikDihzahyn

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:23 AM

Interesting breakdown with simulations of what our skies may look like in the near future...

 

http://www.deepskywa...simulation.html



#123 Lucullus

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:10 AM

Any news as to whether any entity has already raised objection against SpaceX? In two weeks it will be too late.



#124 InFINNity

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 09:40 AM

Nope, the only lawsuit in combination with Starlink concerns Subaru... :-(

 

In the meanwhile Gallozzi has added links to Thierry Legault's video on the Astronomer's Appeal Page (scroll down to the first video).

The letter by him and his colleagues does get plenty attention: https://www.popularm...spacex-lawsuit/

They also made it to Le Monde, the French national newspaper: https://www.lemonde....e-astronomique/

 

Nicolàs


Edited by InFINNity, 13 February 2020 - 09:41 AM.


#125 Thierry Legault

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 02:34 AM

New wide field footage Saturday morning, a group at final altitude (550 km), including Darksat, passing near zenith at astronomical twilight. Darksat is one of the brightest, at mag 2.5!!! frown.gif

 

starlink_20200222_constellations_fb.jpg

 

starlink_20200222_magnitude_fb.jpg

 

Just after I filmed a passage at low altitude of a close chain from a recent launch, all were brighter than the stars of the big dipper!


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