Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

What do Jupiter and Saturn look like through your scope?

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 bcarter1234

bcarter1234

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2018

Posted 12 June 2019 - 08:53 AM

It is likely others are in a similar position to my own. I've just started in astronomy this year and have so far only looked through my own telescope, a Swayze refigured Coulter 13.1" F/4.5 ATM Dob of unknown heritage. As a result I have no idea what is good, bad or indifferent with regard to planetary views. Please post images or sketches that most closely resemble what you see visually of Jupiter and Saturn through your telescope and your conditions.

 

Suggestions for optimizing the views based on the images posted would be great. 

 

13.1" F/4.5

Baader Zoom at 8mm with a Paracorr II providing approximately 210X.

Star collimated just before swinging onto Jupiter.

Driveway at Bortle 6-7

Viewing over a neighbors roof at about 1am.

 

Jupiter is similar to this image with slightly less color variation at the poles. At times it appears a little like a wooden sphere with horizontal grain lines that almost seem to have depth at the two bands. When the GRS is in front it does stand out pretty orange. I can see the shadow of a transiting moon if there is one. It seems like I may be able to detect a large festoon near one of the equatorial bands but I don't see tons of sharp ones with lots of color as shown in most images. 

 

http://astronomy.rob...IoEuropaRPi.jpg

 

Saturn appears like this. I would say I perceived the greenish region (shown on top here but flipped in my reflector) to have a purple/green tint. When I saw it last three of the moons were in a lovely triangle just above in my view.

 

http://astronomy.rob...aturn140528.jpg

 

Thanks for reading and participating.

 

Take care,

Brent


  • EverlastingSky, happylimpet and roelb like this

#2 spencerj

spencerj

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1748
  • Joined: 17 Nov 2004
  • Loc: Londonderry, NH

Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:23 AM

If that is what you see, I would say you are in good shape.  Especially if there are moments when the image really gets sharp.  The purple/green fringing on Saturn is likely coming from your eyepiece.  Keep at it.  The more you look, the more you will see.  


  • havasman and bobito like this

#3 happylimpet

happylimpet

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3646
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2013
  • Loc: Southampton, UK

Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:32 AM

It takes practice to tease out the finest details. Looks like your scope is just fine.


  • havasman likes this

#4 Svalbard

Svalbard

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 191
  • Joined: 15 Feb 2015
  • Loc: USA

Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:47 AM

For 210x I’d say that looks pretty good. 



#5 vdog

vdog

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 812
  • Joined: 30 Aug 2018
  • Loc: California Central Valley, U.S.A.

Posted 12 June 2019 - 06:42 PM

I'd say you're doing great, better than I am and I thought I was doing ok. lol.gif



#6 bcarter1234

bcarter1234

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2018

Posted 12 June 2019 - 10:04 PM

Thanks for all the replies. It is reassuring to know that things are as they should be.

 

Anyone have any images or sketches that look close to what they see in their own instruments? I'd like to see what Jupiter and Saturn look like with excellent optics and/or excellent seeing, or in a longer focal length scope.

 

Perhaps you have seen Mars, as I have, looking like a fidget spinner? Pinched mirror and bad collimation...

 

Take care,

Brent



#7 Myk Rian

Myk Rian

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • Joined: 11 Aug 2017
  • Loc: Hartland, Michigan

Posted 13 June 2019 - 08:01 PM

You say Jupiter is similar to the posted image. May I assume that is not your own picture?


  • PatrickVt likes this

#8 bcarter1234

bcarter1234

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2018

Posted 13 June 2019 - 09:24 PM

Myk Rian,

 

Thanks for reading and posting. I haven't taken any pictures using my telescope thus your assumption is correct. The images are those of Rob Pettengill from his very enjoyable and informative "not so bad AstroPhotography & Astronomy" website. According to his site the images are allowed to be used for non commercial use. The only profit I've received from this thread were confirmation from other helpful readers that these images looked about like what I should expect from my instrument and conditions.

 

I am reaching out to a moderator to see if they can insert the proper attribution and link to the license. If not perhaps they will be able to deleted the thread in its entirety as it seems to have served its intended purpose.

 

Take care,

Brent 



#9 Asbytec

Asbytec

    Guy in a furry hat

  • *****
  • Posts: 14930
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Pampanga, PI

Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:33 PM

Great question. Over the years with good seeing, collimation as perfect as I can get it, the scope at thermal equilibrium, and planets well placed in the sky...they look like this in my 6" MCT at the right magnification and no small amount of time at the eyepeice.

 

One caveat, though, the contrast and hues are embellished to make it easier for others to see on their monitor. In reality, I had to work hard to see all of this stuff and Jove is really not far from grey scale. One learns to see subtle differences in hues, and when we do, Jove explodes with detail. The sketches are designed so you do not have to work as hard as I did. But, all of this is visible.

 

Jupiter 22 Dec 1600UT.jpg

 

Mars Mar  11 2012 1500UTa.jpg

 

Saturn 13 Apr 2012 1600UTa.png


  • Blair, Miranda2525 and vdog like this

#10 Sketcher

Sketcher

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 976
  • Joined: 29 Jun 2017
  • Loc: Under Earth's Sky

Posted Yesterday, 12:54 AM

Anyone have any images or sketches that look close to what they see in their own instruments? I'd like to see what Jupiter and Saturn look like with excellent optics and/or excellent seeing, or in a longer focal length scope.

 

Perhaps you have seen Mars, as I have, looking like a fidget spinner? Pinched mirror and bad collimation...

My 6-inch f/6.5 achromat suffers from rather severe chromatic aberration (thus the yellow filter) and tested out with no better than quarter-wave optics -- not what I would call "excellent" in either category; but I like to show what can be done with rather modest equipment. smile.gif

 

From my location (in Montana) at the time of the observations, neither planet was very high in my sky -- thus the relatively poor seeing.  But with enough practice, one learns how to wait for and pick out details whenever they get revealed.

 

Under excellent seeing, I would not have been able to see significantly more with that telescope; but I would have been able to pick out the details with considerably less time spent at the eyepiece.

 

With higher quality optics (even with a bit less aperture) more detail can be seen -- and with greater ease -- assuming the same observer.  But it takes a bit of experience to learn how to pick out planetary details -- regardless of how good one's telescope and seeing might be.

 

Jupiter June 13 2018 AR152 200x Sketcher
 
Mars 6 inch F 6.5 achromatSketcher   text

  • vdog likes this

#11 Redbetter

Redbetter

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7403
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2016
  • Loc: Central Valley, CA

Posted Yesterday, 04:26 AM

I don't have any sketches for you of the present configuration.  I have some rough sketches from this opposition in larger aperture and better seeing (at another site), but I don't think they would be a useful comparison for you.  I have wanted to sketch some again and planned to do some with the 10", but the seeing has been such muck in the back yard that I haven't been. 

 

What latitude are you observing from?  Seeing is often the greatest arbiter of what is visible, and particularly so once one exceeds 4 to 5" of aperture.  I suspect the seeing was not great when you made the observation.  How is the scope set up for cooling the mirror?  Did it have some time to reach equilibrium?  I expect the scope can do more than that.

 

I have some particularly poor seeing tonight, but Jupiter and the GRS are showing somewhat greater detail in the 110ED refractor at 154x than in the image.   However, things are closer to gray scale in this aperture in these poor seeing conditions (although the GRS has some color.)  The image appears to be of a prior opposition perhaps?  The image is missing the small sharp contrast lines visible from the GRS.  There has been more color/somewhat darker shade to the equatorial region between the two main belts.  And the northern temperate/tropical belts present a couple of thin lines.  Festoons drift in and out when the seeing is poor--have struggled with that tonight.  The color of the festoons has been more brownish lately to my eye, the disruption in the equatorial zone has made things appear much browner than normal.  In prior years they have had a more greyish than blue appearance to my eye in large scopes.  Misc. additional details would be available with a larger scope than I was using tonight, particularly if the seeing was decent. 

 

The purplish tint you mention on Saturn, on the bottom side for inverted image, is most likely due to atmospheric dispersion because it is low in the sky.  You should notice the opposite side of the disk has a more orangish tint on the edge.  This is often more apparent on Jupiter when it is low.



#12 Asbytec

Asbytec

    Guy in a furry hat

  • *****
  • Posts: 14930
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Pampanga, PI

Posted Yesterday, 08:27 AM

My 6-inch f/6.5 achromat suffers from rather severe chromatic aberration (thus the yellow filter) and tested out with no better than quarter-wave optics -- not what I would call "excellent" in either category; but I like to show what can be done with rather modest equipment.

Those are great observations, sketcher. Mars at 150x is amazing. Better than mine at over 400x. At 150x, I don't see it that well.

Edited by Asbytec, Yesterday, 08:30 AM.


#13 bcarter1234

bcarter1234

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 110
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2018

Posted Yesterday, 08:44 AM

Asbytec,and Sketcher,

 

Thanks for the excellent renderings. Both Jupiter images have a similar feel to those I've seen through the eyepiece. Saturn is very close to what I perceived.

 

These are exactly what I had hoped to see in this thread. I feel they help to set realistic expectations for those of us without years of experience looking through varied equipment. Would either of you mind trying to put one of your images in a simulated field of view just to help anyone looking on get an idea of image scale?  

 

I appreciate the information as well that observing experience will yield greater results. I must admit I'm also excited to see the results from an achromat as I'm in the process of building asymmetrical binoculars from a pair of 127mm F/5.5 objectives.

 

Redbetter,

 

My purpose in starting the thread was not strictly to get opinions on what I was seeing, though that was a part, but that we could see what solar system objects really look like to the observer in anything from an 60mm refractor or a 24" Dob under a variety of observing conditions. Someone may base a future purchase decision on having a better idea of what to expect, good or bad.

 

By all means post your sketches with information on the equipment and conditions. This seems to be done a lot for AP but for those of us interested only in visual finding good renderings is a bit harder. To show my early views of mars would require a sketch looking like 3 interlocked rotating orange dots. The telescope came to me with some serious issues. ;-)

 

I'm near Orlando FL so 28.5 degrees latitude. I do 90% of my observing from my suburban yard so conditions are not great but neither are the views I see in any way disappointing.

 

Thanks again for posting,

 

Take care,

Brent



#14 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11123
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted Yesterday, 10:16 AM

This is a great post! I have always wondered what others see in similar scopes as mine. It looks like 150-200x is going to be my sweet spot om my scopes when the seeing is very good. I had my first view of the year of Jupiter and was surprised how big the planet was at just 65x. Seeing was terrible so the planet was boiling, but the 4 moons where sharp. Looking forward for a good planet season this summer.


  • Asbytec likes this

#15 Special Ed

Special Ed

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10191
  • Joined: 18 May 2003
  • Loc: Greenbrier County, WV 38N, 80W

Posted Yesterday, 11:53 AM

bcarter1234,

 

If you want to see what objects look like visually, try the Sketching forum.



#16 Asbytec

Asbytec

    Guy in a furry hat

  • *****
  • Posts: 14930
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Pampanga, PI

Posted Yesterday, 06:10 PM

Would either of you mind trying to put one of your images in a simulated field of view just to help anyone looking on get an idea of image scale?  

 

 

I tried to do that, not sure it's exactly right. I normally hit Jove at about 240x. Remember, Jupiter especially is a very dynamic image. Sometimes it's soft, sometimes it's etched. Detail comes and goes on large and small scales. It's highly dependent on seeing. And of course collimation and thermal stability. 

 

Jupiter Eyepeice View (real).png


  • REC and Miranda2525 like this

#17 Sketcher

Sketcher

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 976
  • Joined: 29 Jun 2017
  • Loc: Under Earth's Sky

Posted Yesterday, 06:53 PM

Would either of you mind trying to put one of your images in a simulated field of view just to help anyone looking on get an idea of image scale?  

A rather trivial math problem:

 

Jupiter's current, apparent diameter is 46 seconds of arc.

Divide by 60, and that becomes equivalent to about 0.767 arc minutes.

Divide by 60 and that becomes about 0.013 degrees.

 

Let's assume we're using a Plossl eyepiece with a 52 degree apparent field, and a magnification of 200x:

 

52 degrees divided by 200 results in a true field of view of 0.26 degrees.

 

So, how much of a 0.26 degree field does a 0.013 degree Jupiter occupy?

 

0.26 divided by 0.013 results in 20 (Don't you just love it when numbers come out so nicely?smile.gif )  So Jupiter would take up 1/20 of the field.

 

Now everyone can make their own equivalent sketch:  Draw a circle with a 100mm diameter (to represent the 0.26 degree true field of view).  Within that circle, draw another circle with 1/20 of that (100mm) diameter -- which would result in a 5mm Jovian disk.

 

. . . and there you have it!

 

Change the above numbers to suit your choice of eyepiece apparent field of view and your choice in magnification if you want to make a sketch using a different eyepiece and/or magnification.

 

Yeah, I know, this isn't exactly a sketch (I'm lazy); but in a way it's better.  It allows anyone to make their own sketch based on any eyepiece and magnification they might want to use.


  • Dave Mitsky and Asbytec like this

#18 Asbytec

Asbytec

    Guy in a furry hat

  • *****
  • Posts: 14930
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Pampanga, PI

Posted Yesterday, 07:14 PM

 So Jupiter would take up 1/20 of the field.

 

 

Yeah, I know, this isn't exactly a sketch (I'm lazy); but in a way it's better.  It allows anyone to make their own sketch based on any eyepiece and magnification they might want to use.

Is it really that small? I'm lazy, too, just eyeballed it. My math at 60 AFOV and 240x comes pretty close to your math. Maybe it just "feels" bigger, or I remember it as being bigger than it really is. 


Edited by Asbytec, Yesterday, 07:16 PM.


#19 Miranda2525

Miranda2525

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Joined: 12 Jul 2016

Posted Today, 04:15 AM

It is likely others are in a similar position to my own. I've just started in astronomy this year and have so far only looked through my own telescope, a Swayze refigured Coulter 13.1" F/4.5 ATM Dob of unknown heritage. As a result I have no idea what is good, bad or indifferent with regard to planetary views. Please post images or sketches that most closely resemble what you see visually of Jupiter and Saturn through your telescope and your conditions.

 

Suggestions for optimizing the views based on the images posted would be great. 

 

13.1" F/4.5

Baader Zoom at 8mm with a Paracorr II providing approximately 210X.

Star collimated just before swinging onto Jupiter.

Driveway at Bortle 6-7

Viewing over a neighbors roof at about 1am.

 

Jupiter is similar to this image with slightly less color variation at the poles. At times it appears a little like a wooden sphere with horizontal grain lines that almost seem to have depth at the two bands. When the GRS is in front it does stand out pretty orange. I can see the shadow of a transiting moon if there is one. It seems like I may be able to detect a large festoon near one of the equatorial bands but I don't see tons of sharp ones with lots of color as shown in most images. 

 

http://astronomy.rob...IoEuropaRPi.jpg

 

Saturn appears like this. I would say I perceived the greenish region (shown on top here but flipped in my reflector) to have a purple/green tint. When I saw it last three of the moons were in a lovely triangle just above in my view.

 

http://astronomy.rob...aturn140528.jpg

 

Thanks for reading and participating.

 

Take care,

Brent

Looks like your telescope has some Spherical Aberration, or a turned down edge. The links to those pics look "soft". It could be something else too. Could be viewing over the roof as heat plumes maybe coming off of the roof? My views of planets are super sharp with so much detail it is difficult to even sketch it all.

 

If I am incorrect, I do apologize.  

 

I use mainly binoviewers when viewing the planets. I find I can see a lot more with two eyes compared to just one.


Edited by Miranda2525, Today, 04:21 AM.


#20 REC

REC

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11123
  • Joined: 20 Oct 2010
  • Loc: NC

Posted Today, 10:14 AM

I tried to do that, not sure it's exactly right. I normally hit Jove at about 240x. Remember, Jupiter especially is a very dynamic image. Sometimes it's soft, sometimes it's etched. Detail comes and goes on large and small scales. It's highly dependent on seeing. And of course collimation and thermal stability. 

 

attachicon.gif Jupiter Eyepeice View (real).png

That's great! I'll try it at 225x in my C-8 which is usually my limit from where I observe from home.


  • Asbytec likes this

#21 David Gray

David Gray

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1611
  • Joined: 06 Aug 2012
  • Loc: Ower Yonder 01.5ºW. 55ºN (UK)

Posted Today, 12:27 PM

I find it more informative visualizing-wise to relate the telescopic scale of planets to the naked-eye Moon: taken here as ½º/30’/1800” apparent diameter.

 

Those simulation-sites I’ve seen are way misleading.........note how an eyepiece 60º AFOV field circle scales against the naked-eye sky...Orion’s main stars occupy only a small ‘corner’! 

 

The Moon Illusion aside, we see things larger than they are – maybe threefold.  How the Moon scales into that field here shows the folly of trusting those sites.........

 

Same applies to things in the landscape: a distant house seen in some structural detail can be hidden by a finger (even a pencil) at arm’s length.

 

Many non-astro folks I have shown such as Jupiter at 365x have complained at how tiny it looks – one got really agitated when I told him we were seeing it 8-9x larger than the naked-eye Moon and outright refused to believe it; to the point of ridiculing........ (Note:  all of my ep magnifications are determined rigorously by exit pupil measurement – an average taken of many, using an Optical Micrometer and also an Iris Diaphragm, and rounded to the nearest 5x)

 

What I have attached here can be checked out by simultaneously viewing a planet in the scope and the Moon naked-eye (think how much average eyesight can make out on it) – only takes 40x for Jupiter to look similar-sized to it.

 

For calculating convenience the field circle is 100mm = 60º/3600’/216000” – this works out at 0.83mm (!!) for the n-e Moon. The planets scaled in as seen with the scope at 365x.  I’ve not attempted to scale down the star symbols on either field – simply only to show constellation and groupings in scale.   That 60º field translates to  ~10’ at 365x of course.

 

Second attachment here shows the rendering posted on another Thread and further details re. the procedure on Post #1 there......and more on Post #8.............. https://www.cloudyni...the-ring-space/

 

Dave.

FLD Scl Jup Sat.jpg

Sat Moon Comp 2018 07 17.jpg


Edited by David Gray, Today, 12:32 PM.

  • Dave Mitsky and Special Ed like this

#22 Sketcher

Sketcher

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 976
  • Joined: 29 Jun 2017
  • Loc: Under Earth's Sky

Posted Today, 02:19 PM

OK, I took one of my sketches of Jupiter (based on a 1-inch aperture observation) and placed it in a simulated 200x Plossl eyepiece field of view:

 

Jupiter 200x  full field view   Sketcher

 

Assuming I made no major mistakes with my math, etc. (which you might want to check -- just in case) the above sketch ought to be reasonably accurate as far as the relationship between Jupiter's size and the extent of the eyepiece's field are concerned.

 

When we observe Jupiter, we concentrate all of our attention on all that we can make out on that "tiny" planetary disk.  And we make our planetary sketches much larger than what we see in our eyepieces.

 

As David pointed out, inexperienced observers are often amazed (and disappointed) at how "tiny" a planet appears to be in the eyepiece; but with experience, that tiny image ends up looking much larger -- as we learn to pick out even tinier details.


  • Dave Mitsky likes this

#23 Dave Mitsky

Dave Mitsky

    ISS

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 78235
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2002
  • Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth

Posted Today, 02:54 PM

Your sketch looks pretty accurate to my eyes, Sketcher.
 

As David pointed out, inexperienced observers are often amazed (and disappointed) at how "tiny" a planet appears to be in the eyepiece

That's been my experience too.

 



#24 Special Ed

Special Ed

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10191
  • Joined: 18 May 2003
  • Loc: Greenbrier County, WV 38N, 80W

Posted Today, 03:18 PM

I find it more informative visualizing-wise to relate the telescopic scale of planets to the naked-eye Moon: taken here as ½º/30’/1800” apparent diameter.

So you're the one who started the Mars hoax...  lol.gif 

 

 

@ Sketcher-- your sketch looks pretty good to me, too.


  • David Gray likes this

#25 David Gray

David Gray

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1611
  • Joined: 06 Aug 2012
  • Loc: Ower Yonder 01.5ºW. 55ºN (UK)

Posted Today, 03:44 PM

You got me Michael........

 

Suckered so many I just couldn’t stop myself....... https://www.cloudyni...uranus-vs-moon/   ... roflmao.gif 

Dave.

Uran C Mn.jpg




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics