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10'' or 12'' Dobsonian as first telescope?

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#26 darkskies14

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 01:36 PM

First of all, let me thank each and every one of you for your invaluable advice!  This truly is an amazing community.

 

I am certain now that I will go for the 10'' scope and probably get a bigger truss in the future. I'm 20 so I don't think I will need additional equipment to carry it around anytime soon. Regarding the increased time for the main mirror to cool off, I would very much like to take the telescope outside earlier and just wait, stargazing with the naked eyes and letting them adapt to the darkness also. I'm so much more excited about this than about any childhood Christmas present! lol.gif

 

Again, thank you all!  Clear skies!


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#27 25585

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 02:02 PM

Can I pick none of the above? I would look for a 10" f6, easier to collimate, no paracor needed. Can be used sitting a lot, and standing no step or ladder required. Better chance of quality optics etc. At f5 or below you really need a paracor which is $$$ and money better spent on a quality eyepiece. Still shorter than the 12" and only 10" longer than the 10" f5. Should be close to same weight. If you can find one with quartz mirrors better yet.

+1 for F6. 


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#28 BGazing

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 02:04 PM

First of all, let me thank each and every one of you for your invaluable advice!  This truly is an amazing community.

 

I am certain now that I will go for the 10'' scope and probably get a bigger truss in the future. I'm 20 so I don't think I will need additional equipment to carry it around anytime soon. Regarding the increased time for the main mirror to cool off, I would very much like to take the telescope outside earlier and just wait, stargazing with the naked eyes and letting them adapt to the darkness also. I'm so much more excited about this than about any childhood Christmas present! lol.gif

 

Again, thank you all!  Clear skies!

Oh, I envy you! Two more inches of aperture and almost 30 years less than me. lol.gif

Not sure if you have any financial constraints, but there a some nice (and pricier) options than run-of-the-mill Chinese solutions. Have a look at TS offerings (Geoptik, TS branded dobs, and the like), and a couple of German boutique producers, etc. They usually provide better mechanics and more enjoyable experience. 


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#29 darkskies14

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 02:16 PM

Oh, I envy you! Two more inches of aperture and almost 30 years less than me. lol.gif

Not sure if you have any financial constraints, but there a some nice (and pricier) options than run-of-the-mill Chinese solutions. Have a look at TS offerings (Geoptik, TS branded dobs, and the like), and a couple of German boutique producers, etc. They usually provide better mechanics and more enjoyable experience. 

Thank you for the information!

I will check them out, but my top budget is about $1,000. But if it really is worth the price I can wait a bit longer and save some more money.



#30 BGazing

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 02:19 PM

Thank you for the information!

I will check them out, but my top budget is about $1,000. But if it really is worth the price I can wait a bit longer and save some more money.

I do not own a dob, but my observing buddies do....and the budget variant always means fighting the mechanics a bit, leaves it lacking. You can improve it bit by bit, or get it properly done from the outset. That said, Chinese stuff is usually great value for money.


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#31 aeajr

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 03:13 PM

First of all, let me thank each and every one of you for your invaluable advice!  This truly is an amazing community.

 

I am certain now that I will go for the 10'' scope and probably get a bigger truss in the future. I'm 20 so I don't think I will need additional equipment to carry it around anytime soon. Regarding the increased time for the main mirror to cool off, I would very much like to take the telescope outside earlier and just wait, stargazing with the naked eyes and letting them adapt to the darkness also. I'm so much more excited about this than about any childhood Christmas present! lol.gif

 

Again, thank you all!  Clear skies!

Good decision to ask for advice.  The group here on CN will not always agree, but you will get good strong advice from people with experience.

 

So, now you have picked your scope.   Time for the accessories, and now that you will be buying the lower priced scope you will have more funds available for accessories. 

 

These may be helpful.

 

Accessories to add to your Telescope
https://telescopicwa...ls-accessories/

 

Telescope Eyepieces
https://telescopicwa...cope-eyepieces/

Understanding and using a Barlow Lens
https://telescopicwatch.com/?s=barlow

How to Use a Telescope:  First Time User’s Guide
https://telescopicwa...ope-user-guide/


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#32 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 03:29 PM

Late to the party as usual . . . 

 

I agree that the 10" is the place to go. Another feature that may not have been mentioned is the field of view.

 

The 10" with a 31 Nagler gives just over 2 degrees.

 

The 12" with a 31 Nagler gives 1.7 degrees.

 

Not a huge difference, but in terms of area of sky covered it is quite a chunk.

 

The 10" gets awfully close to being a do-it-all scope. You can get good wide field of view, do planets, deep sky . . . and do it with a package that is not going to be too heavy/difficult to deal with. Close to a sweet spot.

 

After over a decade in the hobby and about a dozen scopes, I realize that I could have seen about 99.9% of everything I have seen with a good 10" F5 and three decent eyepieces.


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#33 darkskies14

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 03:31 PM

Good decision to ask for advice.  The group here on CN will not always agree, but you will get good strong advice from people with experience.

 

So, now you have picked your scope.   Time for the accessories, and now that you will be buying the lower priced scope you will have more funds available for accessories. 

 

These may be helpful.

 

Accessories to add to your Telescope
https://telescopicwa...ls-accessories/

 

Telescope Eyepieces
https://telescopicwa...cope-eyepieces/

Understanding and using a Barlow Lens
https://telescopicwatch.com/?s=barlow

How to Use a Telescope:  First Time User’s Guide
https://telescopicwa...ope-user-guide/

I always prefer asking for guidance rather than acting based on my little experience in a certain domain.

Thank you very much for the links, they're exactly what I need right now! bow.gif


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#34 darkskies14

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 03:35 PM

Late to the party as usual . . . 

 

I agree that the 10" is the place to go. Another feature that may not have been mentioned is the field of view.

 

The 10" with a 31 Nagler gives just over 2 degrees.

 

The 12" with a 31 Nagler gives 1.7 degrees.

 

Not a huge difference, but in terms of area of sky covered it is quite a chunk.

 

The 10" gets awfully close to being a do-it-all scope. You can get good wide field of view, do planets, deep sky . . . and do it with a package that is not going to be too heavy/difficult to deal with. Close to a sweet spot.

 

After over a decade in the hobby and about a dozen scopes, I realize that I could have seen about 99.9% of everything I have seen with a good 10" F5 and three decent eyepieces.

Awesome!  Thank you for the info!


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#35 tomykay12

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 01:30 PM

Another vote for 10", unless you really like moving water heaters. It's a real sweet spot on the range of dobs available. My 10" dob and a collection of Explore Scientific eyepieces makes for a relatively affordable way to do some quality observing. I don't think 12" would do much better at a substantially more difficult setup, in my situation


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#36 darkskies14

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 01:47 PM

Another vote for 10", unless you really like moving water heaters. It's a real sweet spot on the range of dobs available. My 10" dob and a collection of Explore Scientific eyepieces makes for a relatively affordable way to do some quality observing. I don't think 12" would do much better at a substantially more difficult setup, in my situation

Thanks!



#37 DNA7744

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 05:33 PM

I would go with a 10" Dobson.  I have a Sky-Watcher 8" collapsible Dobson...then purchased a Explore Scientific 12" truss.  Both weigh about the same...but the ES 12 is far superior to the SW 8.  If I had to have one...I would go with the ES 10 truss.  Easy to transport...and within your price range.  Saves you a few dollars for quality eyepieces!


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#38 stargazer193857

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 07:54 PM

12" will give noticeably better views, though not dramatically. Side by side, you will say "nice." Nothing to sneeze at, but maybe not worth the weight for most.

The weight and size difference is more noticeable. The weight difference between 5" f5 and 6" f5 is very noticeable too.

The FOV of the 12" is less, a price for added resolution. Also the eyepiece height will vary more, requiring a serious adjustable height chair, not the simple one the 10" would work with.

Some kids or short women will need a stool to look in the 12" near zenith.

Cool down is there too. And price. But I would not worry about either of those. If you have two scopes, you can use the smaller scope on nights or times when you don't feel like getting out the 12".


I can pick the 8" up in one piece and carry it 50 yards, though it gets heavy and digs into my fingers. The 10" is heftier and much safer in two pieces. I re-injured my back when trying to lower the 12" ota onto its base. I'm 150 pounds, fit, male, 39, slim, but have old injuries.
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#39 stargazer193857

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:07 PM

Big scopes are a lot better with two people. Don't be afraid to ask someone to pick up the other side and help you dodge a tree. I had the chance to point the 10" at M31 and look for dust lanes compared to the 8", but I did not feel like moving the 10". I could have asked any of the people there for help. I do know M31 is much brighter and detailed with 12" than 8". Also M51 looks significantly beafier in 10" than 8". But for near Hubble views of M51, you need 20".

My first reflector was 114mm and located a lot and further fed my interest. I longer for 8", after looking through an 8" on a few things. But I think 8" is still a teaser, and 10" is a pleaser. 8" is good for an enthusiastic newbie or very skilled veteran. 12" will wow the public, but with logistical issues.

Edited by stargazer193857, 17 June 2019 - 02:27 AM.

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#40 darkskies14

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 02:17 AM

I would go with a 10" Dobson.  I have a Sky-Watcher 8" collapsible Dobson...then purchased a Explore Scientific 12" truss.  Both weigh about the same...but the ES 12 is far superior to the SW 8.  If I had to have one...I would go with the ES 10 truss.  Easy to transport...and within your price range.  Saves you a few dollars for quality eyepieces!

Thank you for the info!



#41 darkskies14

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 02:18 AM

Big scopes are a lot better with two people. Don't be afraid to ask someone to pick up the other side and help you dodge a tree. I had the chance to point the 10" at M31 and look for dust lanes compared to the 8", but I did not feel like moving the 10". I could have asked any of the people there for help. I do know M31 is much brighter and detailed with 12" than 10". Also M51 looks significantly beafier in 10" than 8". But for near Hubble views of M51, you need 20".

My first reflector was 114mm and located a lot and further fed my interest. I longer for 8", after looking through an 8" on a few things. But I think 8" is still a teaser, and 10" is a pleaser. 8" is good for an enthusiastic newbie or very skilled veteran. 12" will wow the public, but with logistical issues.

Thank you! 



#42 Starman47

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 08:15 AM

My revised thoughts. Go for the largest aperture you can afford and which you can handle. And get the best optics that you can afford. 10" or 12" is a good spot. In either case there is a learning curve, but from experience I can say that the challenges of learning with my 12" paid off with many Herschel 400 objects in the eyepiece. 


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#43 stargazer193857

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 03:04 AM

My revised thoughts. Go for the largest aperture you can afford and which you can handle. And get the best optics that you can afford. 10" or 12" is a good spot. In either case there is a learning curve, but from experience I can say that the challenges of learning with my 12" paid off with many Herschel 400 objects in the eyepiece.

True. There are people who move 18" scopes. But they use wheelbarrow handles and ramps. You could do that with a 12". Some people will stop at 10" just so they can easily move it without extras.

Yes, 12" will show more. And if you want to fit some bigger DSO, you will need a bigger eyepiece too. That is easier than buying a 2" bigger scope later.

Nothing in the eyepiece looks like Hubble. Well, most does not. When you get to a dark sky site after a long drive, are all set up, and found your target, you will wish you had more aperture. But then when you tear down, you will be glad you only have 10".

The right 12" is not so heavy either but must be taken in pieces.

Edited by stargazer193857, 19 June 2019 - 03:06 AM.

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#44 aeajr

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 08:31 AM

First of all, let me thank each and every one of you for your invaluable advice!  This truly is an amazing community.

 

I am certain now that I will go for the 10'' scope and probably get a bigger truss in the future. I'm 20 so I don't think I will need additional equipment to carry it around anytime soon. Regarding the increased time for the main mirror to cool off, I would very much like to take the telescope outside earlier and just wait, stargazing with the naked eyes and letting them adapt to the darkness also. I'm so much more excited about this than about any childhood Christmas present! lol.gif

 

Again, thank you all!  Clear skies!

Did you order a scope yet?    I am excited to learn what you ordered or if you received it yet.

 

Did you order any accessories in addition to what came with the scope?


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#45 spencerj

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 08:46 AM

A lot of good advice.  If you are buying the scope new, the 10" is definitely the way to go.  If you are open to a used scope in good condition, you could get lucky and find something interesting for the same money or a bit less.  For example, you could find something like a  12" collapsible Dob (travel and deploy like a 10" but give you extra aperture) for $600.  Or find a XT10i which has an object locator or a Dob with an upgraded base or refigured mirror and useful accessories for about the same price as a plain new 10" Dob. 


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#46 darkskies14

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 10:09 AM

Did you order a scope yet?    I am excited to learn what you ordered or if you received it yet.

 

Did you order any accessories in addition to what came with the scope?

So I checked out the links you gave me and I want to get everything from the beggining. Initially I was just thinking about the scope and maybe another eyepiece.

 

Now I see that it wouldn't be wise to order just that and then have to order different stuff again - it would mean more waiting time from observing, taxes and all that. So now I am doing my homework on what I need and it's getting rather expensive: 

 

  • Eyepieces: a 25mm Plossl is included, so I was thinking to get a 9mm and a 15mm; I'm not sure if it's worth to go with Plossls for these too or just get better quality ones right away - ones with a bigger FOV and better image quality overall. And if that's the case then it would mean about $300 more;
  • Barlow: definitely a 2x, I don't know if I need a 3x also;
  • Filters: Moon and light pollution;
  • Laser collimator
  • Books and charts

 

Another thing that I was unaware of (my bad) is that the transport fee is going to be about $150 due to the package's weight.

 

I'll have to save more money, but I should be able to buy it in just a few months. But I am certain that I will go for the 10'' Omegon.

 

So thank you for the information, you saved me a few bucks and a headache. lol.gif


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#47 stargazer193857

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:52 AM

Definitely do not get a 9mm Plossl. Also a 15mm sounds bad too. Eyerelief is the issue with short Plossls.
Go on ebay and get the 6mm or 9mm 66 deg eyepieces. Just search for 66 deg eyepiece. They are $28 each. Otherwise, Meade 82 deg for $129 are a good deal. You can but used here on cloudynights classifieds.

I don't know about good 3x barlows. Let me know if you find any. 2x is standard.

Used 10" come up on Craigslist for $300 sometimes, probably because the previous owner does not know how to collimate.
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#48 DNA7744

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:55 AM

So I checked out the links you gave me and I want to get everything from the beggining. Initially I was just thinking about the scope and maybe another eyepiece.

 

Now I see that it wouldn't be wise to order just that and then have to order different stuff again - it would mean more waiting time from observing, taxes and all that. So now I am doing my homework on what I need and it's getting rather expensive: 

 

  • Eyepieces: a 25mm Plossl is included, so I was thinking to get a 9mm and a 15mm; I'm not sure if it's worth to go with Plossls for these too or just get better quality ones right away - ones with a bigger FOV and better image quality overall. And if that's the case then it would mean about $300 more;
  • Barlow: definitely a 2x, I don't know if I need a 3x also;
  • Filters: Moon and light pollution;
  • Laser collimator
  • Books and charts

 

Another thing that I was unaware of (my bad) is that the transport fee is going to be about $150 due to the package's weight.

 

I'll have to save more money, but I should be able to buy it in just a few months. But I am certain that I will go for the 10'' Omegon.

 

So thank you for the information, you saved me a few bucks and a headache. lol.gif

Where are you located?  Many sites stateside offer free shipping (Astronomics, BH Photo, Explore Scientific)!



#49 stargazer193857

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:57 AM

I still say bigger scopes are for more advanced users. Buying an 18" is not just about whether you can move it or want to invest that much. It is about whether you can find stuff in the narrower field of view. As the focal length increases, you need more precise knowledge of where stuff is in the sky. Going above 12-14" reaches a tipping point. Also, the 10" will focus better on nights when the sky is dynamic.
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#50 darkskies14

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:18 PM

Where are you located?  Many sites stateside offer free shipping (Astronomics, BH Photo, Explore Scientific)!

I'm from Europe. grin.gif




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