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Interpreting Turn Left at Orion (with an Apertura AD8)

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#1 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 07:16 AM

In true newb form, I recently acquired the 5th edition of Turn Left at Orion, dropped everything and excitedly spent the next 3 hours poring over the introductory material (it didn't hurt that the weather in Tampa has been persistently overcast and rainy).  It was smooth sailing until I arrived at the abbreviated seasonal charts and their finderscope views, which are incompatible with my true view Apertura AD8's finderscope.  In other words, the finderscope views in the book are upside down; my finderscope sees the sky in its natural orientation (which, I gather is a nice upgrade from older model dobs).  This was frustrating, because the finderscope views presented in the book are a great idea and resource (as a star-hopping launch point) for new enthusiasts like me still getting their sea legs and learning the night sky.  Having trouble as it is conceptualizing celestial directions and coordinates in sky charts (for instance, Sky and Telescope's jumbo "Pocket" atlas, which is a wonderful reference whose technicality is still beyond my grasp), I'm wondering if there's another introductory book or resource the CN community would recommend to help me get oriented.  Thanks!

 

Joe



#2 physicsdan77

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:49 AM

Hi, I'm somewhat of a beginner myself. I have had an AD10 for just under a year now and love it. The best thing I did for finding objects with my AD10 was add a tetrad to it. The telrad projects concentric circles of 1,2 and 4 degree diameters on the night sky. You can get them from various sites for around $30 0r $40 I think. I use that in combination with the finder scope to find objects. I start with telrad, then use the finder or the 30mm eyepiece to zero in on my target. I used this website for the messier objects: http://avila.star-shine.ch/astro/messiercharts/messierTelrad.htm

The charts at that site show you what should be in each of the telrad circles for each of the messier objects. I also have found The year round messier marathon field guide by Harvard Pennington to be a useful resource for the messier objects, though the finder scope images in that book have the same issue of being reversed as the Turn Left ones.  I also use the The Cambridge Star Atlas by Will Tirion. I use the coordinates on the side of each chart to figure out what should be in my different telrad circles.  


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#3 cookjaiii

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:54 AM

The mental workout from interpreting star charts vs the views through the eyepiece is definitely one of the challenges of star-hopping.  Embrace it!  Look at it as a way to keep the ol' noggin sharp.  I don't do crosswords or Sudoku, so this is one way of keeping dementia at bay. ;-)


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#4 Will_S

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 09:01 AM

Two options:

 

1) Turn the book upside down when looking at the finder charts.

2) Go to the Turn Left at Orion webpage and download the charts that match your equipment.  https://www.cambridge.org/turnleft


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#5 Kipper-Feet

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 09:25 AM

Welcome to the forum Joe, and please do check your Inbox in your Personal Messenger for a private message (PM).



#6 jgraham

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 10:05 AM

Turn Left at Orion is one of my all-time favorite books. I love the text, but I use my S&T Pocket Sky Atlas for star-hopping. (I also use a correct-image finder.)

 

Thanks for the link to the star charts, I'll have to check that out!



#7 t_image

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 10:34 AM

For the similar problem but not with TL@O resolved by Will's link,

I wonder:

I' don't own a smarthphone, but wonder if there is an app that show realtime video view but you can flip the orientation to match your scope/viewfinder optics.

I figure the labels would be unreadable, but hence the video feature so you can view with phone, put finger on desired label, then remove phoneview and look at uncorrected chart with legible label.

Otherwise just snap an image of desired charts and flip them in photoediting software. Use a mirror to read the labels...Use the finger point trick to eliminate need to brain-orient...



#8 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 07:36 PM

Thanks, Dan.  Great recommendations.

 

Hi, I'm somewhat of a beginner myself. I have had an AD10 for just under a year now and love it. The best thing I did for finding objects with my AD10 was add a tetrad to it. The telrad projects concentric circles of 1,2 and 4 degree diameters on the night sky. You can get them from various sites for around $30 0r $40 I think. I use that in combination with the finder scope to find objects. I start with telrad, then use the finder or the 30mm eyepiece to zero in on my target. I used this website for the messier objects: http://avila.star-shine.ch/astro/messiercharts/messierTelrad.htm

The charts at that site show you what should be in each of the telrad circles for each of the messier objects. I also have found The year round messier marathon field guide by Harvard Pennington to be a useful resource for the messier objects, though the finder scope images in that book have the same issue of being reversed as the Turn Left ones.  I also use the The Cambridge Star Atlas by Will Tirion. I use the coordinates on the side of each chart to figure out what should be in my different telrad circles.  



#9 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 07:37 PM

Agreed!

The mental workout from interpreting star charts vs the views through the eyepiece is definitely one of the challenges of star-hopping.  Embrace it!  Look at it as a way to keep the ol' noggin sharp.  I don't do crosswords or Sudoku, so this is one way of keeping dementia at bay. ;-)



#10 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 08:28 PM

Excellent insights.

Welcome to the forum Joe, and please do check your Inbox in your Personal Messenger for a private message (PM).



#11 Bowlerhat

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 09:00 PM

There's no upside down in the sky, really.

 

it's all jumbled up depending on your equipment as well. Do you use finderscope? red dot? telrad? With right angled, correct image options, etc, it'll produce different results. The view from finder may be different to the one in your eyepiece as well.

 

I think the most important is seeing - some stars that appears on the book, may or may not be seen depending on weather. In any case, it should be just a rough visual guide, not exact. remember each of these book has different magnitude stars limit variable in print.

 

I think apps are more versatile, since you can change the star amount depending on your seeing conditions. However guidebooks can come in handy too.



#12 rowdy388

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 09:52 AM

I often use three different finders on the same scope: a Telrad, a 9x50 RACI, and a piggyback

70 or 80mm refractor. They all have a different orientation than the main scope but the key thing

is they are all aligned. I still move the main scope in the wrong direction sometimes, but quickly 

correct myself with a wiry smile. smirk.gif 


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#13 NightRunner

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 08:08 PM

I use Sky Safari Plus in my cell phone. I can display it in red and have it display with flipped axis to match my dob's view.
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#14 csrlice12

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 09:42 PM

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=aSMZnWIJRCg



#15 CosmoNewt

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:09 AM

I am also a newbie, have the same scope as you, and my first book was Turn Left at Orion.  The 2 best things that I purchased were a Telrad and shortly after a SWA 38mm 2" eyepiece.  The Telrad gets me to the general area and the eyepiece provides me the widest angle low power view that I could afford.  I prefer to use the Telrad 8 out of 10 times over the RACI.   A Telrad or comparable finder is something I recommend as one of your next purchases and will fully compliment the 30mm finder.  The RACI, low power eyepiece and Telrad will all start coming together with practice. 



#16 whizbang

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:07 AM

Hmmmm.  You could just ignore the finder scope views.  I always have.

 

Your various scopes and finders will either show the correct view, or, more often flip it or reverse it or both.  And, depending on how clear, dark ,or light polluted your skies are, there will be more or less stars in the viewfinder.  I find it rather confusing, quite frankly.

 

If you are star hopping, make sure your finder is properly aligned.  I really enjoy an RACI on a DOB like you have.  I also recommend a red dot finder to get you close.  Then use the RACI.  Many of the brighter DSO's you can actually see in the finder.

 

So, ignore the finder scope views.  They are just not helpful.



#17 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:55 PM

True w/r/t cosmic orientation.  I'm working through Arny and Schneider's Explorations textbook right now, and so far I find it well-written, approachable, and helpful.  It's giving me a better sense of the celestial sphere and motions.  I do use a RACI (it came nicely equipped with my Apertura 8" Newt), and just ordered a Telrad at the good recommendation of several keen contributors here.  With some study and discipline, I'm hopeful the charts will make more sense.   

There's no upside down in the sky, really.

 

it's all jumbled up depending on your equipment as well. Do you use finderscope? red dot? telrad? With right angled, correct image options, etc, it'll produce different results. The view from finder may be different to the one in your eyepiece as well.

 

I think the most important is seeing - some stars that appears on the book, may or may not be seen depending on weather. In any case, it should be just a rough visual guide, not exact. remember each of these book has different magnitude stars limit variable in print.

 

I think apps are more versatile, since you can change the star amount depending on your seeing conditions. However guidebooks can come in handy too.



#18 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:57 PM

What's up, Doc!? Love it!  Thanks for the levity.



#19 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:58 PM

Thanks, WB.  Also a fan of the RACI, as I've come to know it.  Hotly anticipating my Telrad.

Hmmmm.  You could just ignore the finder scope views.  I always have.

 

Your various scopes and finders will either show the correct view, or, more often flip it or reverse it or both.  And, depending on how clear, dark ,or light polluted your skies are, there will be more or less stars in the viewfinder.  I find it rather confusing, quite frankly.

 

If you are star hopping, make sure your finder is properly aligned.  I really enjoy an RACI on a DOB like you have.  I also recommend a red dot finder to get you close.  Then use the RACI.  Many of the brighter DSO's you can actually see in the finder.

 

So, ignore the finder scope views.  They are just not helpful.



#20 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 10:02 PM

Just downloaded.  Will test-drive tonight.  Thanks, NightRunner!

I use Sky Safari Plus in my cell phone. I can display it in red and have it display with flipped axis to match my dob's view.



#21 Cosmic Vault

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:49 AM

I use Sky Safari Plus in my cell phone. I can display it in red and have it display with flipped axis to match my dob's view.

 

I use Sky Safari Plus in my cell phone. I can display it in red and have it display with flipped axis to match my dob's view.

NR, I started to get acquainted with Sky Safari Plus last night.  Cool app with lots of features.  I did find an option that let me rotate the axis, but, it never actually changed my view.  How did you do that? And what other settings (in the app) do you use with your dob? I didn't find my Apertura AD8 listed in telescopes.  Maybe there's an equivalent?


Edited by Cosmic Vault, 21 June 2019 - 05:51 AM.


#22 gfamily

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:01 AM

Can I suggest you download Cartes du Ciel and use it to make up your own finder charts? That way, you can align the charts to suit your specific finder, scope and eyepieces, and you can work out your own star-hopping routes.

Here's one I prepared for M57 (my finder at the time was an inverting one)

 

M57 finder.PNG




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