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Some news, and an apology

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#1 Augustus

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:02 AM

So, over the past few months I quietly disassembled and parted out my 20" reflector, which included selling the primary mirror. This was mainly due to the scope's large size being unfit for transporting to dark skies or use in my backyard. Today the buyer of the mirror got test results back from an optical tester, and the results were... shocking.

 

The mirror is hyperbolic and astigmatic, by about 2.5 waves. This was a complete surprise to me, since I'd used it in a scope for about six months and apart from some relatively slight fuzziness at high magnifications and some weird ghosting effects I'd thought it was fine. Even when it didn't perform so well, I blamed it on thermals or occasionally bad seeing. I'd come quite close to buying a new mirror cell and cooling fans for it, thinking that might solve the issue. I'm not going to blame the maker of the mirror since he'd said himself he didn't remember how it had tested, and it was very generous of him to give it to me.

 

A while back, someone commented on my lack of structural knowledge about hardwoods, and questioned how I could be selling custom scopes when I lacked understanding of this relatively basic information. Granted, it was delivered in a rather insulting manner, but the point was valid and I foolishly dismissed it. Well, he was right. I don't really know all that much, and today proves that when it comes to star testing I've got a lot to learn. I really shouldn't have been trying to sell custom-built scopes without some more engineering and optical testing knowledge. But I'm a teenager and I wanted money and had too much pride (and definitely some narcissism) so I just went ahead and ignored all of my detractors. 
 

I would like to apologize for my arrogance and ignorance on this forum and on CN in general (as well as Reddit) and I hope to alleviate it in the future.

 

Clear skies everyone!


Edited by Augustus, 18 June 2019 - 09:49 PM.

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#2 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:19 AM

Zane:

 

:goodjob:

 

I congratulate you on your maturity in handling this.  As they say, live and learn.  You are very young, I envy you, you have a lot of living and learning ahead.. 

 

Jon


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#3 dmcnally

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:36 AM

Zane,

Your admission shows a lot of courage and integrity. waytogo.gif

 

Clear Skies,

Dave


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#4 PrestonE

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:49 AM

Zane,

 

It is a good lesson to learn, and that you did it as an early age and acknowledge this is a good sign...

 

I had backed away from commenting on your post in the past for this very reason.

 

So glad that you have learned this valuable lesson.

 

Very Best Regards,

 

Preston


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#5 TOMDEY

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:53 AM

Gosh... don't beat yourself up too much, Augustus! After all, the general pattern here, and on other social media... is to beat up everyone else!

 

Seriously, though... We all have learned a lot and got far more to learn, right from childhood, through one foot in the grave. The beautiful part is that no one will ever know it all, but has the continuing opportunity to learn. The world is full of blowhards; I can most certainly and personally attest to that!

 

I believe the good life and attitude is to stride/strut thru life with enthusiasm, confidence and humility. And always be open to being proven wrong... even look forward to occasional doses of that learning opportunity! And try everything --- the worst that can happen is that some things don't pan out --- and that is no big deal!    Tom


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#6 howardcano

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:05 AM

No matter how old we get, it's a good thing to look back a month, a year, or decades, and occasionally tell ourselves "That was really poor-- next time I'll do better."

 

That's the kind of person worth knowing.  People who never have that thought are the ones we keep at a distance.


Edited by howardcano, 18 June 2019 - 11:05 AM.

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#7 Gipht

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:05 AM

In this world full of people who are full of themselves, it is nice to see some humility.  Humility is still a virtue. 


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#8 SeaBee1

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:08 AM

Zane: humility is a most valuable lesson to learn at any age, but to learn it so young is priceless. I would say you are likely miles ahead of most folks. The second lesson to learn is to not forget the first one... BTDT...

 

Cheers!

 

CB


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#9 JoeInMN

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:13 AM

I wish a lot of people four times your age would learn that this sort of statement just makes a person more trustworthy to everyone around them.


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#10 PirateMike

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:33 AM

It takes a big man to admit his shortcomings, especially in such a public manner. You have taken a big step forward in being a honorable person and that is very important, not for us, but for yourself.

 

I have always said... "The least knowledgeable people are always the ones who think they know everything. And because they assume that they know everything they have no reason to listen to what anybody else has to say."

 

The first step in learning anything is to admit that you don't know! From there your world is open to all possibilities.

 

Miguel   8-)

 

.


Edited by PirateMike, 18 June 2019 - 11:34 AM.

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#11 Jeff B

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:33 AM

When we become humble, we become teachable.  There are many paths to get there.

 

Making amends is a natural byproduct of humility.

 

Well done Zane.

 

Jeff


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#12 mountman

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:34 AM

Zane.

 

I don't know what the future will hold for you (there's a fair amount of it ahead yet) but I do know that your integrity bodes well for what ever it brings.

You can fix lack of knowledge. 


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#13 PirateMike

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:36 AM

So now, learn what you need to learn and go out and sell a lot of wonderful telescopes.

 

Miguel   8-)

 

.


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#14 mfoose

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:48 AM

Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone apologizes and learns. You are well ahead of the curve on this. We all have flaws and weaknesses that we like to hide or deny and most of us are much too prideful to admit them to ourselves, let alone in the open. 

 

Keep your head up. 


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#15 StarmanDan

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:57 AM

The greatest learning experience is through failure, not through success.  My boss told me that if I'm not screwing something up every now and then, then I'm not trying or learning.  The going joke around my work is that you won't be accepted by the co-workers until you bring the website down.  


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#16 Mike I. Jones

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:10 PM

Also, I'm not understanding why a mirror with only 2.5 waves of astigmatism would need to go back to grinding.  10 or 15 waves, yes, probably a good idea, but 2.5 waves, just run it out in an hour or two on the spindle, then refigure.


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#17 Chuck Hards

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:45 PM

Zane, those two lines in my sig are there for a reason.  The number of truly excellent optics in the world is far smaller than the number of owners who think they have truly excellent optics.   

Don't beat yourself up.  It appears that you've learned, and moved-on.  Well-done young man.


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#18 daviddecristoforo

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 01:01 PM

You’re on the right track.

 

If you want to be a maker, there are two things you need. The first is knowledge which is the part you can acquire by reading and studying. The other is skill which must be developed. Skill cannot be acquired by any means other than by doing. Some can develop skills very quickly, especially if they have a natural affinity for a particular process (something we often refer to as “talent”) Others must work long and hard to develop skills.

 

The most important thing is perseverance.

 

Learning is foiled by ego. If one cannot accept the fact that there is something that needs to be learned, then how can it ever be possible to learn?

 

You have made a huge advancement here, one that many will never make no matter how long they live.


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#19 mark cowan

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 02:39 PM

Even when it didn't perform so well, I blamed it on thermals or occasionally bad seeing.

The plight of customers since forever. Mirror is fixable as always, as Mike said, with some hours on a machine.


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#20 TOMDEY

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 02:56 PM

Zane, those two lines in my sig are there for a reason.  The number of truly excellent optics in the world is far smaller than the number of owners who think they have truly excellent optics.   

Don't beat yourself up.  It appears that you've learned, and moved-on.  Well-done young man.

Optical testing has ruined more telescopes than any other cause.      

        "Test an optic for someone, and you've disappointed him for a day.  Teach him to test his own optics, and you've disappointed him for a lifetime."  - C.H.

 

Woo Hoo --- YES!

 

I did Optical Test at the big companies... and not uncommon for an internal customer to get Test Results and come storming in, demanding that we Re-Test it... to make it better. Honest, that's not an exaggeration.

 

And, by extension... just gota believe that stuff goes on all over... Even when the fabrication and testing are done by the same person!   Tom


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#21 Oregon-raybender

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 03:37 PM

Now you know where to help educate yourself, we were all young once, believe we thought we knew everything. But some learn the hard way that this is not true. You are lucky to catch it at an early age. I have known a few engineers / scientists who never do. In the end they caused headaches, delays in projects, people who quit, and upset customers. bangbang.gif The question is now you know your weakness, do you turn it into a strength?  Don't worry about failure, it is a great teacher. Best of luck to you. So what college are you going to attend, if this is your goal? smile.gif

 

Starry Nightswaytogo.gif 

 

P.S.  Choose a good mentor, BTW there are a few on CN bow.gif   graduate.sml.gif gramps.gif imawake.gif


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#22 PrestonE

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 04:17 PM

Augustus, I will share with you something that my father taught me that served me very well over the years.

 

Learn to ask sincere questions.  

 

People love to help those that learn to ask sincere questions.

 

At one point in my career, I had over 20 PhD's working for me for Free full time, as I ask the correct questions.

 

And from the companies that those PhD's worked, because of these questions I purchased hundreds of thousands

to millions of pounds of chemical products from them.

 

Without getting them to work for Free I could not have done what I achieved...

 

I retired at age 35 because of learning to ask questions sincerely that I did not know the answers. 

 

Very Best Regards,

 

Preston


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#23 tim53

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 06:59 PM

Zane,

Your admission shows a lot of courage and integrity. waytogo.gif

 

Clear Skies,

Dave

Yes.  You can't be a narcissist and do this.  So you're not a narcissist.


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#24 Volvonium

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 07:22 PM

 

I would like to apologize for my arrogance and ignorance on this forum and on CN in general and I hope to alleviate it in the future.

 

Clear skies everyone!

 

And reddit?  I kid, I kid.  I saw your post there too.

 

Making mistakes and admitting/learning from them is par for the course towards becoming a true specialist of your interests.


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#25 coinboy1

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 07:24 PM

Zane,

You have impressed me as someone so young and passionate about astronomy and telescope making. I was much like you as a teen interested in telescope making but you have far more ambition than me in entrepreneurship which I admire. It was good of you to post your shortcomings and I am sure you will learn from these life lessons. Keep your chin up and press on!
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