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Telescope for my son

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#1 kevinmrstowe

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:34 AM

Hello, I am relatively new to the forums. My son has taken a real interest in astronomy and is wanting a telescope. He's 10 yrs old and and reads space magazines and watches astronomy shows on youtube. I was looking at some Dobsonian reflectors on the Orion website and wasn't sure what to get him. I noticed the 6in Dobsonian reflector was affordable and wasn't so huge that he can't manage it, so I was thinking about this one. However, I really want to get him something with an auto tracker device so he doesn't get discouraged when he wants to view objects by himself. I also don't want him to be disappointed with the views from too cheap of a scope. Any advice is appreciated.

 

Kevin 


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#2 Sam M

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:44 AM

A six inch Dobsonian sounds like the perfect choice.  Powerful, a good height for a standing 10 year old.  Simple, manageable. Honestly, computerized scopes can be more frustrating, because there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through before you can start observing.  Also, they tend to take you to objects that you have no hope of seeing through that scope under less than perfectly dark skies.  I would suggest getting a Telrad, or Rigel finder.  It makes pointing the scope much easier.  Also, a cheap low power eyepiece for finding things.  Like 32mm plossl and a 2x barlow.  A planisphere is useful, or a phone or tablet app.  I'd inquire here (CN forums) about beginner targets to observe.  You'll find lots of help.  Good luck and clear skies!


Edited by Sam M, 18 June 2019 - 11:52 AM.

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#3 SeaBee1

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:46 AM

Hi Kevin! A 6 inch reflector on a Dobson mount will be an awesome scope for your son! Don't underestimate his ability to learn how to nudge a non tracking scope. Get a 8X50 RACI for it and a Telrad®, show him how to align them and use them and get an astronomy app such as Sky Safari 6 Plus and he will be off to the races. And spend time with him... pretty soon he will be showing YOU stuff...

 

Good hunting!

 

CB


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#4 Augustus

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:47 AM

I would recommend getting the XT6, a few eyepieces such as a 32mm Plossl and some wide-field eyepieces at 6mm, 9mm, and 15mm focal lengths, and a Telrad.


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#5 Barlowbill

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:48 AM

I have an 8" Orion Dob.  I don't mind self tracking.  It isn't that hard.  It is more difficult to find things but I have always thought that learning to find objects and tracking them is a fair price to pay for playing the game.  To me, the more important factor is the finding device.  Red dot finders are terrible!  Fortunately, there are a lot of alternatives and they aren't that expensive.  There are many customizable things you can do with a Dob.  Good luck


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#6 havasman

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:50 AM

The Orion XT6 Dob is an excellent scope. Our club received one as a donation a few years ago and I was charged with checking it out and making sure it was up to speed before making it available for members' use. Much smaller than my Dobs, it surprised me with the quality of the views it put up. It will not disappoint. But it doesn't find or track, as you point out.

 

For that you may want to look at the Celestron scopes. They offer several better options than Orion's options. A lot of people like this 6" - https://www.astronom...-go-to-sct.html



#7 mfoose

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:00 PM

I recommend the 6" Dob as well for all the reasons stated above.

 

A tracker can be nice, but you also have to align it properly. If you are worried about him not being able to find objects by himself, I am not sure how well he can set-up the go-to tracking, just another thought on a tracking mount. 

 

I would also recommend a telrad finder scope, 32mm plossl, and a 8-24 zoom eyepiece. These are invaluable for a beginner. 

 

To help him learn the night sky a simple atlas like the S&T Pocket Sky Atlas or if he has a smartphone or tablet, Stellarium. A cheap pair of 8x42 or 10x50 binos is also great for learning the night sky. 


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#8 antariksha

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:10 PM

Kevin, best wishes. I am sure your son will soon get deeper into this hobby. While as many others have said, 6" Dob is good. I would even suggest, a small aperture say 4". But in any case, please for F6 or more, preferably F8 ratio ( of focal length to aperture). This will reduce burden on many other complications in viewing. And, please go for two eyepieces one for higher mag say 8mm or 10mm and other one 32mm.



#9 Augustus

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:13 PM

I recommend the 6" Dob as well for all the reasons stated above.

 

A tracker can be nice, but you also have to align it properly. If you are worried about him not being able to find objects by himself, I am not sure how well he can set-up the go-to tracking, just another thought on a tracking mount. 

 

I would also recommend a telrad finder scope, 32mm plossl, and a 8-24 zoom eyepiece. These are invaluable for a beginner. 

 

To help him learn the night sky a simple atlas like the S&T Pocket Sky Atlas or if he has a smartphone or tablet, Stellarium. A cheap pair of 8x42 or 10x50 binos is also great for learning the night sky. 

For a kid I'd recommend 7x50s and not 10x50s. I have trouble holding 10x50s steady.

 

I personally hate zooms, but if it's easier for a kid to use then why not.


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#10 mfoose

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:21 PM

For a kid I'd recommend 7x50s and not 10x50s. I have trouble holding 10x50s steady.

 

I personally hate zooms, but if it's easier for a kid to use then why not.

Good point on the binos. 7x35s, 8x42, or 7x50s the lighter the better. 

 

I recommend zooms for beginners. Dial in the best view for the object and see what different magnifications look like instantly. Zooms have pros and cons. I think the pros of an 8-24 zoom outweigh the cons for a beginner. For more experienced observers, I think the cons outweigh the pros. Just my thoughts on zooms. 


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#11 barbarosa

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:44 PM

The things that disappoint with a first scope-

  1. Deep space objects, galaxies and nebulae are shades of gray and not in color.
  2. Many targets appear very small.
  3. Difficult to find a target, particularly if you are observing from a city or large suburb.
  4. Planets are not sharp when you use the high power (shorter focal length) eyepiece that you bought.

Everyone had advice often good advice, but sometimes not and often advice based on adult experience and without considering where you and your son will use the scope.

 

I think you should assume that your son will either get tired of the scope sooner or later or want to move up to a better one (applies to dad also). Therefore it makes sense not to start too high on the quality features scale. The Celestron Powerseeker isn't going to be mistaken for top quality, but it will not be awful. The line includes both EQ and Alt-az mounts and some go to mounts. This f/5 refractor isn't go to but it will have nice field of view. The other thing about scopes and mounts in this range is that you can often find them on CL for half of the retail price- almost a throw away scope.

 

Another option is the Celestron scope from Astronomers without Borders. Not by any stretch a perfect scope but a good one according to many people

 

To get an idea of the relative size of objects in various scopes go here and try the visual field of view calculator. You can pick a scope from the list or customize one, same for the eyepiece.

 

Later you can worry questions like what kind of finder, red dot, Telrad or finder scope.  

 

When I was young, a bit older than your son, I wanted a scope. I did the research and selected an EQ mounted Newtonian. My folks did the essential bit and I was the proud owner of a  Montgomery Ward special. The eyepieces were crappy as was the mount and I didn't care. It was out to the yard to get the Orion Nebula, Jupiter and the moon. I guess that enthusiasm lasted a year more or less until I fully accepted that the complete kit in an urban backyard was not ever going to be a good astronomy or terrestrial setup. It was decades until my next scope, also crappy but I knew it was just a place to start.

 

Now for what it might be worth, today observing from a suburb I would only buy a go to mount unless the scope would also be used as a spotter. 



#12 macdonjh

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:48 PM

Kevinmrstowe,

 

Lots of good advice here so far.  I'll add one more consideration: we don't know where you live, but if you live under light polluted skies it will be hard for you and your son to learn star hopping to find objects.  That was my experience.  My son and I used an Orion XT6i for a couple of years and really liked it.  Orion doesn't offer that scope anymore, but they do offer the XT8i.  The IntelliScope system helps guide you to objects in the sky so you don't have to star hop.  You can read about it on Orion's website.  You'll see systems like the IntelliScope called "digital setting circles", "DSC" and "push to" on these forums.  There are other DSCs available from other manufacturers.

 

Another option is to make an azimuth circle for the base of your new scope and use a phone app inclinometer and something like Sky Safari.  I've never tried it, but lots of observers here do and it works for them.


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#13 dr.who

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:49 PM

Split the difference. a tracking system means a computer and at the lower price point the quality of the scope is scarified to offset the price of the computer. In addition the scope is going to be much smaller than a traditional 6” Dob so easier for a 10 year old to manage.

That scope being the Push To (meaning it has a computer to tell him where to point the scope and he provides the motors via his arm and hand to move it there) Orion StarBlast 6i. He can star hop with it if he wants and when he doesn’t he can use the computer to locate objects. Alignment is very easy, requiring only two bright stars selected from a list of named stars. It is a better choice than a traditional Dob in urban/suburban skies because the light pollution makes it more difficult (not impossible just more difficult) to star hop. In addition to it I would recommend a Telrad to replace the red dot finder that the scope comes with and a copy of the Sky and Telescope Pocket Sky Atlas for navigation of the night skies by season. Those accessories are about $54 with the scope, two starter eyepieces, computer, and collimating tool costing $479 or three easy payments (per the Orion website) of $160 from Orion. Here is a link to the scope:

https://www.telescop...ASABEgIDMfD_BwE

I do a significant amount of public outreach including to middle and elementary schools. Over many years this is what I have found. Binoculars are great for their sweeping views of the night sky but even smaller ones are not easy for a child to hold or for that matter keep steady so a tripod is needed. DSO are going to be really small and more fuzzy and dim save for the very largest of them than in a larger scope. A traditional Dob, even a 6” one, is not easy for a child to move around, not because of its weight but because of its size. It will likely be as tall as he is or close to it. A completely manual Dob is going to get old quickly in most (not all but upward of 85-95%) cases since star hopping for a beginner is time consuming and more difficult in city light pollution. Yes a angle gauge and a home built azimuth setting circle can make a manual setting circle system but how realistic is it to expect the usual 10 year old to put the time in to work with it? Alternatively a smart phone can be kludged together to make a pseudo DSC but again are you going to lend him your phone or buy him one? Will it perform as well as a purpose built DSC? Not really. Members here do it and good on them for doing so but this is a 10 year old. Frankly as I said above, unless you are spending over $1,000 on one a computerized tracking system aka GOTO system is not going to be all that great because the computer costs so much thus they save by making the telescope less expensive and because of that a lower quality. There are outliers where any one of these options works really well but they are rare.

It is my experience that in city skies and for children your son’s age, this is the best most affordable option out there is going to be the Orion StarBlast 6i. It will let him focus on likely what he is interested in: finding a DSO and looking at it. Not jumping around the sky hunting for it. If he wants to try his hand at star hopping he can as well. Just do what Luke Skywatcher did, turn the targeting computer off.

EDIT: By moving it around I mean picking it up and moving it not pushing it to objects.
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#14 trapdoor2

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:49 PM

Hello, I am relatively new to the forums. My son has taken a real interest in astronomy and is wanting a telescope. He's 10 yrs old and and reads space magazines and watches astronomy shows on youtube. I was looking at some Dobsonian reflectors on the Orion website and wasn't sure what to get him. I noticed the 6in Dobsonian reflector was affordable and wasn't so huge that he can't manage it, so I was thinking about this one. However, I really want to get him something with an auto tracker device so he doesn't get discouraged when he wants to view objects by himself. I also don't want him to be disappointed with the views from too cheap of a scope. Any advice is appreciated.

 

Kevin 

Of course, only you know your kid. However, don't underestimate his ingenuity or ability to learn. If he can run some of today's video games, he can certainly learn the night sky. 

 

To add a computer takes a step or two up from the XT6...which would be the XT8i. That has a "push to" computer...so he can learn to star-hop or he can let the computer tell him how to get there. Frankly, I'd love to have one myself.



#15 scadvice

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:51 PM

One helpful tool to get to know your way around the sky is Stellarium a free app. for the computer. He could spend hours just seeing all there is to see with that tool. Also using it to know his way around in the sky and finding planets, galaxies, star clusters and so forth. How the sky progresses during the night and year. Also what is up to see at any given time. There is also a app. within to show the field of view your particular scope will show when you look through the eyepiece.

 

https://stellarium.org/



#16 Augustus

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:54 PM

The things that disappoint with a first scope-

  1. Deep space objects, galaxies and nebulae are shades of gray and not in color.
  2. Many targets appear very small.
  3. Difficult to find a target, particularly if you are observing from a city or large suburb.
  4. Planets are not sharp when you use the high power (shorter focal length) eyepiece that you bought.

Everyone had advice often good advice, but sometimes not and often advice based on adult experience and without considering where you and your son will use the scope.

 

I think you should assume that your son will either get tired of the scope sooner or later or want to move up to a better one (applies to dad also). Therefore it makes sense not to start too high on the quality features scale. The Celestron Powerseeker isn't going to be mistaken for top quality, but it will not be awful. The line includes both EQ and Alt-az mounts and some go to mounts. This f/5 refractor isn't go to but it will have nice field of view. The other thing about scopes and mounts in this range is that you can often find them on CL for half of the retail price- almost a throw away scope.

 

Another option is the Celestron scope from Astronomers without Borders. Not by any stretch a perfect scope but a good one according to many people

 

To get an idea of the relative size of objects in various scopes go here and try the visual field of view calculator. You can pick a scope from the list or customize one, same for the eyepiece.

 

Later you can worry questions like what kind of finder, red dot, Telrad or finder scope.  

 

When I was young, a bit older than your son, I wanted a scope. I did the research and selected an EQ mounted Newtonian. My folks did the essential bit and I was the proud owner of a  Montgomery Ward special. The eyepieces were crappy as was the mount and I didn't care. It was out to the yard to get the Orion Nebula, Jupiter and the moon. I guess that enthusiasm lasted a year more or less until I fully accepted that the complete kit in an urban backyard was not ever going to be a good astronomy or terrestrial setup. It was decades until my next scope, also crappy but I knew it was just a place to start.

 

Now for what it might be worth, today observing from a suburb I would only buy a go to mount unless the scope would also be used as a spotter. 

DO NOT buy a Powerseeker. They are horrible.

 

If a 6" Dob really doesn't work, I would recommend the Celestron Astro-Fi 130. You can control it with a smart device and it's honestly a surprisingly good scope.


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#17 JoeInMN

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 01:04 PM

A six-inch Dob is a great choice as a first scope, and not just for a ten-year-old; you're likely to find yourself wanting to use it after he's gone to bed... I would second the recommendations to make computerized finding/tracking/etc a low priority. The movements of a Newtonian's odd rotated view become second nature pretty quickly. Useful accessories are a finderscope, a sky atlas (paper, or software such as Stellarium, SkySafari etc.), informed expectations as to what the Ring Nebula or M13 is going to look like, interactions with any local astronomy clubs, a bit of practice collimating the scope (not too difficult with an f/8 Newt), and time spent under the darkest sky that you can get to. Both of my six-inch Dobs have been in storage and I haven't used them in a while, but the f/8 still would be my "if you could have only one on a desert island" scope.


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#18 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 01:18 PM

I use an older model 6" f/8 Orion SkyQuest XT6 Dob as a "quick look" scope.  It's an all-around good choice, IMO. 

 

https://www.telescop...pe/p/102004.uts

 

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#19 Sky Muse

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 01:23 PM

Don't choose the Orion 6" f/8 "Dobsonian".  Get the Sky-Watcher instead, as it has the better focusser of the two...

 

https://www.astronom...0.html?___SID=U


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#20 Redbetter

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 02:17 PM

DO NOT buy a Powerseeker. They are horrible.

I will second this.  The mount is essentially useless.  I am more tolerant than many with regard to stability of mounts, but I find the Powerseeker EQ mount very frustrating and the attachment method is non-standard, requiring some modification (rings) to put the OTA on another suitable mount.  The mount doesn't have enough clutch/clamping force to use the motion controls to move the tube around much of the time and is incredibly sensitive to balance as a result.  The lighter weight alt-az mounts aren't much better.  This is a major issue with long tube refractors.  (And adding to your comment,  the short tube mentioned in the post you responded to is the with the plastic focuser...which is not recommended.) 

 

The problem with nearly all inexpensive refractors is that one generally has to plan to upgrade the diagonal (usually the come with RACI's anymore), the mount, and likely an eyepiece or two.  RACI diagonals aren't too bad for low power, but are not a great match for higher power views.  And for wider field low power views they will cut off a substantial portion of light in the outer field because of the narrow aperture of the RACI, not as much of a factor just starting out, but down the road it matters.  For someone who already has better mounts and accessories available this is not much of a concern, but for someone just starting it creates a series of obstacles.  This is a major reason small Dobs are frequently recommended.

 

RDF's should work well for small scopes.  They can be somewhat unreliable unfortunately, but they are extremely inexpensive...and if you have problems with one, contacting the manufacturer gets a free replacement in the mail rapidly (had this experience with both Meade and Celestron, slightly different RDF builds.)



#21 mashirts

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 03:10 PM

Bet ya anything you get him a dob and he will say he wants to image. Why not ask him what he might want in a telescope. He might prefer an imaging route.

#22 JoeInMN

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 04:16 PM

Imaging isn't where even an adult beginner should start out, let alone a ten-year-old kid. That's a few levels up in knowledge, experience, and equipment expenses. Learning how to find things, see things, use and care for a telescope, is how you get him started. Afocal phone-camera shots of the Moon would be a fun intro to the most basic imaging, and easy even with a Dob.


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#23 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 04:35 PM

If the OP decides to get either the Orion or Sky-Watcher 6" Dob, I recommend replacing the red dot finder (Orion) and 6x30 finder scope (Sky-Watcher) with an 8x50 or 9x50 RACI (right angle correct image) finder scope and a Rigel QuikFinder or Telrad.

 

Dave Mitsky


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#24 ShaulaB

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 04:41 PM

I am speaking as a mom and a granny and a 50 year telescope user. The 6 inch Dob is a great choice.

If I read your post correctly Dad, you want computerized goto capability. Young people are smart, and tracking down objects via star hopping may be a great fun thing to do. Don't be scared, people have used star hopping for hundreds of years. Electronics can be persnickity, and can be frustrating to use if you are not prepared to trouble-shoot to solve problems. Don't underestimate your child's ability to figure things out.

Have a blast!

#25 Charles Funk

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 05:51 PM

Don't choose the Orion 6" f/8 "Dobsonian".  Get the Sky-Watcher instead, as it has the better focusser of the two...

 

https://www.astronom...0.html?___SID=U

Sky Muse beat me to it :)

 

The 2" focuser and the extra eyepiece make it a no brainer.  I'd add that this would be a great scope for a 10 yr. old. Or an adult who still recognizes the 10 yr. old within. 

 

I should mention that my kids had no trouble with my 12" dob when it came to hand tracking or locating targets. Kids are pretty quick to grasp the concepts and put them to use. Goto and motor tracking are generally overrated (my opinion from experience, my first scope was a goto) as learning the sky isn't that difficult, it just takes time and a willingness to learn. From what you said in your post it sounds to me like this 10 yr. old is willing to learn. There comes a great sense of fulfillment learning how to find objects. Stellarium, a free download is a good place to start the learning process.  

 

The goto factor adds a hefty price tag to an entry level scope and hopeful first time scope buyers intent on getting the gadgetry, are forced to sacrifice the most important thing in a telescope, aperture, to get into astronomy. The affordable goto scopes are usually on wobbly mounts, short on aperture, and long on frustration, generally speaking. Which is why 90% of the time you will see a dob recommended as a first scope here. They are simplicity, they are affordable aperture, they are easy to setup, and at 6" easy to move around and store. It's hard to beat the dob at this price point. If $300 was my budget on a first scope, and knowing what I know now, the 6" dob would be the one.


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