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Have you visually observed the Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins craters?

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#26 David Knisely

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 07:22 PM

At a low sun angle (and during good seeing), a five or six inch should show all three (Armstrong, Collins, Aldrin).  The smallest is probably Collins at 2.4 km (1.5 miles) in diameter and is a little over 19 km from the landing site, with Aldrin at about 3.4 km (2.1 miles) in diameter (47 km to the northwest of the landing site), and Armstrong at 4.6 km (2.9 miles) in width, 49 km northeast of the landing site.  "Cat's Paw" is the closest crater to the Apollo 11 landing site that is visible in amateur scopes, and is a bit on the irregular side (3.7 km x 2.4 km), but an 8 inch should just catch it as well.  As long as the seeing is good and the sun isn't too high on it, I usually don't have a lot of trouble with Cat's Paw in my 9.25 inch SCT, although it isn't exactly a prominent feature.  Cat's Paw's east rim crest is about 5.5 km (3.4 miles) from Apollo 11's landing site location, and the tops of the Cat's Paw crater's ramparts are visible in the horizon shots taken from inside Eagle shortly after landing (see image below (courtesy NASA)):

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  • Apollo11PanCatsPawHorizon1.jpg

Edited by David Knisely, 23 July 2019 - 07:43 PM.

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#27 aa6ww

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 12:59 AM

I wonder, does anyone know where Little West Crater is relative to the Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins craters, and also relative to where the lander landed. Ive been trying to find photos of all of this in one photo but haven't been able to.

I havent checked my lunar atlas also.

 

...Ralph



#28 james7ca

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 01:43 AM

You aren't going to find any earth-based images of Little West. However, it's easily visible in LRO images. Here it is with the actual LEM and the larger West crater (on the far right). I think you can even see the tracks that the astronauts left when they went to the rim of Little West.

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  • Apollo 11 Landing Site (Close Up).jpg

Edited by james7ca, 24 July 2019 - 01:48 AM.

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#29 james7ca

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 01:47 AM

And here is a view that includes the rim of the Cat's Paw. You can probably use this to locate the other craters using posts that have already been made to CN. Like here:

 

  https://www.cloudyni...s/#entry9452082

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  • Apollo 11 Landing Site (Medium Shot).jpg

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#30 Tom Glenn

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 01:50 AM

I wonder, does anyone know where Little West Crater is relative to the Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins craters, and also relative to where the lander landed. Ive been trying to find photos of all of this in one photo but haven't been able to.

I havent checked my lunar atlas also.

 

...Ralph

In this very thread, just a few posts ago, I provided a link to the LRO Quickmap.  It is well worth the effort to get aquatinted with this tool, because you can literally answer almost any question concerning distance, names, coordinates, or topography on the Moon.

 

https://www.cloudyni...ters/?p=9502904



#31 David Knisely

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Posted 24 July 2019 - 03:50 PM

I wonder, does anyone know where Little West Crater is relative to the Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins craters, and also relative to where the lander landed. Ive been trying to find photos of all of this in one photo but haven't been able to.

I havent checked my lunar atlas also.

 

...Ralph

 

The center of Little West crater is only about 70 meters east of where the Lunar Module's descent stage currently sits, so its distance to the three named craters is about the same as that of their listed distances from the Apollo 11 landing site I gave earlier.  At only 34 meters (112 feet) in diameter, Little West is far too small to be imaged from Earth.  Clear skies to you.



#32 pdxmoon

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Posted 26 July 2019 - 10:26 PM

To answer this question, you can make use of one of the best tools available on the web at the following website, which gives you an interactive map constructed with LRO data.

 

https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/

 

Using the menu icons on the left, you can turn on nomenclature, as well as make measurements between any two points, as well as get elevation profiles, coordinates, etc.  Shown below in this screen grab (slightly brightened for posting but otherwise straight from the website) is the distance between the Apollo 11 site and the center of Collins (approximately 20km).  I will leave you to the other measurements.  You can spend hours working with this map.  

 

attachicon.gif Apollo11.jpg

Related question: is the satellite view real time, or a computer re-enactment?



#33 james7ca

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 12:25 AM

Related question: is the satellite view real time, or a computer re-enactment?

It's not realtime. However, I suppose they could update the images as new data comes in but even then the images will be days, weeks, or months old. They still don't appear to have 100% coverage at the highest scale (some areas don't zoom to a very good quality). That said, even the worst resolution is better than anything that could be done from earth.


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#34 Tom Glenn

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 12:55 AM

Related question: is the satellite view real time, or a computer re-enactment?

As James said above, it's not real time.  But the images that you can access are sort of a combination between photographs and computer simulations.  The precise location of the satellite is known at all times, and so the photographs each have precise coordinates of latitude and longitude on the Moon.  In combination with precise elevation readings that have also been taken, this means that a very accurate digital terrain model can be produced.  This allows you to rotate the model in any direction and still have accurate renderings of topography.  Also, the LRO cameras make use of stereo pairs of images.  On successive orbital passes, the camera will first tilt to one side and take an image, and on the next orbit it will tilt to the other side and take an image of the same location from a slightly different angle .  Having this set of images allows even finer resolution to be obtained in the 3D model, similar to how you have better vision using two eyes as a pair than with one. 

 

Interestingly, you can actually have the Quickmap program tell you where the satellite is located right now.  There is an icon in the upper right corner.  Then you can pan around and see a simulation of what that region of the Moon looks like.  As of a few moments ago, the orbiter was in the vicinity of the South Pole near the crater Antoniadi on the far side.  See images below. 

 

LRO.jpg

 

lro2.jpg


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#35 Tom Glenn

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 02:00 AM

There are also a variety of maps you can use with the Quickmap.  One interesting option is to look at the narrow angle camera (NAC) with solar illumination coming from the West or the East.  This gif shows the Apollo 11 site with the landing module near the center, and Little West crater to the right.  Note the change in direction to the shadows of the landing module. 

 

Apollo11.gif


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#36 Asbytec

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 02:23 AM

That's simply amazing stuff, Tom. Thank you for sharing. I use Quickmap, but only some of it's features to (or trying to) measure crater diameters. 



#37 agmoonsolns

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Posted 27 July 2019 - 03:39 AM

This has been the best thread ever, thank you to everyone who has contributed! 



#38 azure1961p

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 03:29 PM

It's not just the seeing I've found, though it's really important but the lighting angle.  

 

Ralph, I enjoyed your accounts here and was glad to hear the C8 proved it's worth.  Much as I'd like to look here under the favorable lighting crescent or late night waning gibbous, I never have done. The first is too low near rooftops (usually) the other, beyond my bedtime.  So, when I do look, the lighting is quite high and not favorable but I have seen all three.  The catspaw, out of the question.  Needs crescent lighting or waning gibbous.   Nice trio at 200x though at Pickering 7 or better.

 

The catspaw here which Knisley provides a nice image of from the LM was the one distant lunar feature Buzz Aldrin remarked on when he was there.

 

Nice thread.

 

Pete


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