Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Bucket of Barnesite

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 ccaissie

ccaissie

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1768
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Whitefield, Maine

Posted 19 June 2019 - 08:28 PM

Our club has a tub of Barnesite (like 50 lbs.) that I know I'm never going to use up in this lifetime, as I have been using some from an opened tub, and also use Universal #363 Cerium.  We might divvy it up into usable portions and put it in the classifieds.  

 

I happen to like Barnesite, ever since it came with my 6" Edmund kit in 1966..I've read that it is as slow as rouge and all other kinds of opinions.  In my hands at least, I find it as fast as Cerium, and it cleans up very quickly.  I know that it's not produced because the refining techniques don't comply with the rules....No, it's not radioactive.

 

It's a vanadium oxide, the raw form is a beautiful red crystal, and I believe the polishing compound is a mixture with other rare earth oxides.

 

https://www.mindat.org/min-533.html

 

If anyone is interested in using this, let me know and I will furnish details re: particle size, purity and other data I can find.


  • gnabgib and Augustus like this

#2 dogbiscuit

dogbiscuit

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 565
  • Joined: 18 Oct 2018

Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:49 PM

Interesting.



#3 Steve Dodds

Steve Dodds

    Owner - Nova Optical

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 279
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2007
  • Loc: Utah

Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:16 AM

I used barnsite back in the day, it's nothing like rouge except  in color, it's a fast polisher, not sure what king of microfinish it leaves.  If you are interested in getting rid of it let me know.



#4 Cameron_C

Cameron_C

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 241
  • Joined: 05 Feb 2014
  • Loc: Richmond Hill Ontario Canada

Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:39 AM

Our club has a tub of Barnesite (like 50 lbs.) that I know I'm never going to use up in this lifetime, as I have been using some from an opened tub, and also use Universal #363 Cerium.  We might divvy it up into usable portions and put it in the classifieds.  

 

I happen to like Barnesite, ever since it came with my 6" Edmund kit in 1966..I've read that it is as slow as rouge and all other kinds of opinions.  In my hands at least, I find it as fast as Cerium, and it cleans up very quickly.  I know that it's not produced because the refining techniques don't comply with the rules....No, it's not radioactive.

 

It's a vanadium oxide, the raw form is a beautiful red crystal, and I believe the polishing compound is a mixture with other rare earth oxides.

 

https://www.mindat.org/min-533.html

 

If anyone is interested in using this, let me know and I will furnish details re: particle size, purity and other data I can find.

Just sent you a PM to see if I could set some.

Now I am wondering.....

I presume the correct approach is to use Cerium Oxide to get close to where you want and then to use the Barnsite to sneak up on the parabola?

 

Question: If I switch from Cerium Oxide to Barnsite, do I need to make a new lap?

Can a lap with embedded CerOx just switch over to using Barnsite?

 

I have never had any or used any Barnsite.

So I am curious about the approach here.



#5 Chuck Hards

Chuck Hards

    You don't know Swift from Astrola

  • *****
  • Administrators
  • Posts: 25577
  • Joined: 03 May 2010

Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:40 AM

I used barnsite back in the day, it's nothing like rouge except  in color, it's a fast polisher, not sure what king of microfinish it leaves.  If you are interested in getting rid of it let me know.

I used Barnesite once, decades ago.  It was easy to get in trouble too quickly, I went back to rouge.  Best left to the pros!



#6 ccaissie

ccaissie

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1768
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Whitefield, Maine

Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:12 AM

I've listed the Barnesite in Classified as well as some submicron alumina powders.  I recently sold a 38# bucket of Cerox, one of the original 90%+ cerium oxide compounds, to a well known mirror maker.

 

Barnesite is fast, they used it for the Hale 200".   I have used it 95%  the way through on mirrors, and used washed rouge the last couple of minutes, more for the alleged microripple reduction than the correction.

 

I wouldn't make a new lap, the regular periodic scrubbing of a lap between sessions is enough.

 

I see that someone else has a bucket of this, selling at the rate of $5 for 100 grams.  It is designated #85.

https://www.usedvict...Polish_27215929

 

This bucket from Stan Brower's Laboratory Optical, is labelled #774.  I don't know what that means yet. He worked every kind of substrate.



#7 starcanoe

starcanoe

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2013
  • Loc: Gulf Coast, Panhandle of Florida

Posted 20 June 2019 - 10:15 AM

I'd pay MORE for it if it WAS actually radioactive :)

 

Random aside....look up "radioactive boy scout" on the internet for some interesting reading....


  • careysub likes this

#8 Mark Harry

Mark Harry

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8280
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2005
  • Loc: Northeast USA

Posted 20 June 2019 - 03:55 PM

Barnesite polishes relatively quickly.
We use #85 mixed with #73 pitch to make A.O.Brown polishing pitch for small optics. Holds up well.



#9 ccaissie

ccaissie

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1768
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Whitefield, Maine

Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:21 PM

Got a note from one of our ATM'ers who says that it IS radioactive and when the Post Office detects it, they will confiscate it.  
 
Well, that's a show-stopper.  Until I get some testing done, I won't be shipping it out, and I have so notified those who want to purchase it.

 

What I don't know, and will find out is HOW radioactive is it?  Doesn't everything emit some form of alpha or beta?  And how can I say anything is or isn't radioactive unless tested?

 

What constitutes a safe limit for a pound of this stuff in a bag in the basement?   How about a smidgeon under your fingernails?  How about that Big Mac you just ate?  Did you test it?  We know Bananas are radioactive, the decaying Potassium-40 isotope is constantly emitting particles.  And there is a rule of thumb measurement called a B.E.D.  Banana Equivalent Dose.  20,000,000 bananas is a lethal dose...you're dead in 2 weeks.

 

I will resolve this.... I'm providing a sample for evaluation by the labs at the State of Maine, but mind you, it will only be relevant to this batch of Barnesite.  The box of wheaties and the new pair of boxers you bought are unknowns.


  • Mark Harry and Cameron_C like this

#10 ccaissie

ccaissie

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1768
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Whitefield, Maine

Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:24 PM

I'd pay MORE for it if it WAS actually radioactive smile.gif

 

Random aside....look up "radioactive boy scout" on the internet for some interesting reading....

Yeah, that is a wild story....sorry but the Barnesite won't give you that kind of kick.



#11 starcanoe

starcanoe

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
  • Joined: 07 Nov 2013
  • Loc: Gulf Coast, Panhandle of Florida

Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:29 PM

And here I was just waiting to talk about the B E D levels and look all supper nerdy.

 

 

Two interesting thing about "radioactivty".

 

Its not that hard to make a detector that will detect a decent fraction of radiation that hits it.

 

And considering that 1 mole of a substance is roughly 6 times 10 to the 23rd atoms....

 

Well....between those two things....you can measure radioactivity to an amazing low level...



#12 JohnH

JohnH

    Gemini

  • ****-
  • Posts: 3101
  • Joined: 04 Oct 2005
  • Loc: Squamish BC Moved!!!!!

Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:55 PM

Yeah, that is a wild story....sorry but the Barnesite won't give you that kind of kick.

 

Proper stuff has very little of radioactive material in it.

 

Some people extrapolated from Barnesite samples from the Cactus Rat Mine with has associated uranium minerals



#13 mark cowan

mark cowan

    Vendor (Veritas Optics)

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 9480
  • Joined: 03 Jun 2005
  • Loc: salem, OR

Posted 21 June 2019 - 02:42 AM

I did a long calculation (which refreshing the page stupidly made vanish into the ether), however the gist is this:

 

Your 50 lbs of Barnesite emits beta + and - radiation around 1.1MeV from it's 50V component about 8 times per second. 

 

This is comparable radiation intensity per decay to what Cobalt-60 does (well not surprisingly given the periodic table etc. etc.).  But the same equivalent molar weight of 60Co emits vastly more radiation, since its half-life is about 5 years and that of 50V is...wait for it - no I mean really wait for it - 1.5x1017 years.    

 

Yes it may be slightly radioactive.  No I don't think it's hazardous.

 

I've used Barnesite at one time until I ran out.  I'd be happy to use more.  If it glowed in the dark that'd be cool but it won't.

 

Trace impurities can of course alter this, as noted. 


Edited by mark cowan, 21 June 2019 - 02:43 AM.


#14 Mark Harry

Mark Harry

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8280
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2005
  • Loc: Northeast USA

Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:25 AM

I've heard both, that it -IS-, and -ISN'T-. The stuff that -IS-, heard that as long as you don't eat the stuff, and wash off the residue on your hands before you eat a Whopper, you should be good to go. I have an old large glass Skippy peanut butter jar full of the stuff somewhere around here.
******
I wonder what the P.O. would do with it after confiscation???



#15 ccaissie

ccaissie

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1768
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Whitefield, Maine

Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:54 AM

Okay, Dave, thanks for the heads up.  I visited the material testing lab at the State of Maine this a.m. and watched as the calibrated detector worked over background counts, Lead 210, other reference samples, and the pile of Lindsay Barnesite #774.

 

Nada, nothing, no clicks over the background count,  lower than a granite countertop, lower than Coleman lantern mantles, Zilch.

 

So, if you're interested in some of this tested stuff, let me know.  Other Barnesite may have different levels, so beware, know your dealer.


  • Venetia2004 likes this

#16 ccaissie

ccaissie

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1768
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Whitefield, Maine

Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:59 AM

I've heard both, that it -IS-, and -ISN'T-. The stuff that -IS-, heard that as long as you don't eat the stuff, and wash off the residue on your hands before you eat a Whopper, you should be good to go. I have an old large glass Skippy peanut butter jar full of the stuff somewhere around here.
******
I wonder what the P.O. would do with it after confiscation???

Oh I'm sure there's a whole manual on how to deal with it.  White suits and all.



#17 Peter Nance

Peter Nance

    Precision Applied Products

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 21
  • Joined: 24 Aug 2018

Posted 21 June 2019 - 06:28 PM

I'll add to what Mark Cowan said and ccaissie tested:

 

34 years ago I tested a full 50 lb bucket of Barnesite while working handling radioactive material inside a white monkey suit shocked.gif

 

It is a beta emitter. Basically you can stop any slight radiation with a piece of paper.

 

So in the bucket or box the PO isn't going to detect anything.

 

And unfortunately sad to say no your not going to glow grin.gif from using this although some people would think it would be cool.

 

Just don't go eating while your putting the powder into the mix !



#18 ccaissie

ccaissie

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1768
  • Joined: 13 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Whitefield, Maine

Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:21 AM

Barnesite polishes relatively quickly.
We use #85 mixed with #73 pitch to make A.O.Brown polishing pitch for small optics. Holds up well.

Do you mean that you mixed the Barnesite in with the pitch to make a self-polishing pitch?  I use pitch that I make with talc and rosin per Brower's recipe, but I've never considered filling the pitch with a polishing agent....

 

So Brower's recipe uses talc to stiffen but not harden the pitch, as he worked his pieces by machine.  Did The AOBrown formula use enough Barnesite to significantly stiffen the pitch?

 

So far I have distributed a great deal of this product, surprisingly to Canada...even the $27 international shipping cost seems to not deter the sales.  Eager to hear how it works in the different hands.

 

https://www.cloudyni...ens-polish-774/


Edited by ccaissie, 29 June 2019 - 10:24 AM.


#19 Mark Harry

Mark Harry

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8280
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2005
  • Loc: Northeast USA

Posted 30 June 2019 - 06:10 AM

"mixed the Barnesite in with the pitch to make a self-polishing pitch?"

Yes, 2 reasons why we do that.
One basically to stiffen the pitch up; and second, to have a residual very gentle polishing action with thinned compound or water.
With very small lenses, say 6mm diameter or less, even gentle hand polishing results in very large pressures to area being applied. Bare 73, or 82 for that matter, would flow around like putty.
Instead of making half a dozen polishers out of 73 to work a single lens or two, one polisher of A.O. Brown will last a dozen lenses or more with care. Big difference.




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics