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ES 20mm 68 deg Vs. WO 20mm 66 Binoviewer Pair - Worth the extra?

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#1 Spacefreak1974

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 10:20 AM

I bought (2) of the William Optics 66deg eyepieces recently for my TS Standard Binoviewer for around $96/pair thinking i'd use my 14mm Morpheus eyepieces for binoviewing more often but they were not comfortable at all. The William Optics ones are good, but would I see a lot of difference if I bought the Explore Scientific 20mm ES 68's. I have a credit for the one 14mm Morpheus I returned so I thought these 20mm 68's from ES would be a worthy option. I could give one of the 20mm WO eyepieces to my son and donate the other to our astro club for the equipment loan program.

 

Thoughts? Would I see a big impact difference switching from the WO 66 20mm's to the 20mm  ES 68's?

 

https://www.highpoin...ece-epwp6820-01

 

Jon


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#2 havasman

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 10:56 AM

It's really hard to say what's worth it for somebody else.

 

I didn't care for the WO 66 20mm. In fact it's one of only a few pieces of gear that I won't sell because I think the odds are poor that somebody else will be a satisfied buyer. I have 40, 24 and 16mm ES68's and think they are all quite nice.

 

Contrary opinions can certainly be valid.



#3 Sam M

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:22 PM

I'm also curious how the WO would compare to the ES 68, and also the ES 62 series.  

 

As far as the WO 66 20mm, I neither love nor hate them.  I use them with a WO binoviewer and a Siebert 1.5x, 2x, 3.5. OCA, mostly in my dobs.  I find I have some annoying internal reflections, but I'm not sure how much of that is a function of the eyepieces.  

 

Recently, I was going to upgrade to a pair of LOA 21mm neutrals, but wound up sending the LOAs back after a side by side comparison.  The LOAs controlled reflections and scatter better, but the edge of the field was worse.  May have been due to vignetting or some function of my OCA, I'm not sure.  Otherwise they were basically the same.

 

It's really hard to say what's worth it for somebody else.

 

I didn't care for the WO 66 20mm. In fact it's one of only a few pieces of gear that I won't sell because I think the odds are poor that somebody else will be a satisfied buyer. I have 40, 24 and 16mm ES68's and think they are all quite nice.

 

Contrary opinions can certainly be valid.

I'm curious what specifically you don't like about the WO 66 20mm.  Also, are you using the other eyepieces you listed for binoviewing?  If so, what setup?



#4 REC

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:28 PM

I have both and the ES are sharper and have more contrast. The only thing is that they are a little heavier. The WO pair came with the BV and I use them in my smaller scopes, the 80ED and the C102. But, when I use the BV in my  8" and 10" scopes, I use the ES.

 

If you can still return the WO, then do that and buy the ES.



#5 Sam M

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:49 PM

I have both and the ES are sharper and have more contrast. The only thing is that they are a little heavier. The WO pair came with the BV and I use them in my smaller scopes, the 80ED and the C102. But, when I use the BV in my  8" and 10" scopes, I use the ES.

 

If you can still return the WO, then do that and buy the ES.

Do you notice any vignetting with the ES eyepieces in the WO binoviewer?



#6 Spacefreak1974

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:58 PM

I have both and the ES are sharper and have more contrast. The only thing is that they are a little heavier. The WO pair came with the BV and I use them in my smaller scopes, the 80ED and the C102. But, when I use the BV in my  8" and 10" scopes, I use the ES.

 

If you can still return the WO, then do that and buy the ES.

Do the ES 68's work ok in the William Optics binoviewers with the tapered barrels?

 

The William Optics 20mm's i'd need to return by 6/5 in order to still be within the return policy which should be doable

Jon



#7 havasman

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 01:37 PM

I did not use them in a binoviewer. It's been at least 3 years but the best I remember their outer field was poorer than what I was then using at and around that focal length. That was likely an ES100 20mm but could've been a WO XWA 20mm.



#8 Sam M

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 02:59 PM

I did not use them in a binoviewer. It's been at least 3 years but the best I remember their outer field was poorer than what I was then using at and around that focal length. That was likely an ES100 20mm but could've been a WO XWA 20mm.

I think the barlow factor in my OCA helps the outer field.



#9 crn3371

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 04:37 PM

I’d be interested in the comparison too. I’m using a pair of Svbony 20mm in a Celestron binoviewer on an Evo 8, so a very similar setup to yours. 



#10 nicoyenny

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 04:41 PM

Besides the 17.5mm Morpheii (us), I have a pair of WO 20mm, which i barely use and more recently i got a pair of ES 15mm 52 deg. which give me the "easiest" binoviewing ergonomics ...YMMV ...

and they are really sharp!



#11 sonny.barile

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:02 PM

Apples and oranges.   The ES 68 degrees is a much more sophisticated design than the WO. The WO is only a 3 group 4 element design. It’s wider than a Plössl. I believe it may be a modified Erfle. There is always going to be a draw back to low element quantities with wide fields. I have a pair and they get used with an f10 SCT and are quite satisfactory. Faster scopes will reveal the flaws at the edges easily. That being said I am old fashioned and prefer les glass. My favorite lenses are RKE’s which are essentially 3 element Kelners. 

 

 


Edited by sonny.barile, 20 June 2019 - 09:04 PM.

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#12 Reid W

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:21 PM

Jon- I have the ES 20mm  pair in my Denk II.  They are/were far superior to the gimme 25mm Celestron plossels I had prior.  Eye relief very easy to hold, even merging was much easier.

 

I use these 90% of the time.  Just the other evening, I was observing Jupiter in my 103mm with the 20s. 

 

I also have a pair of Baader zooms, and they are great, but with the power switch, the 20s see most activity.



#13 Miranda2525

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:58 AM

Do the ES 68's work ok in the William Optics binoviewers with the tapered barrels?

 

The William Optics 20mm's i'd need to return by 6/5 in order to still be within the return policy which should be doable

Jon

There are reports of the tapered barrels of the ES not sitting in the BV'ers just right.

 

 https://www.cloudyni...468s/?p=7151404

 

https://www.cloudyni...apered-barrels/


Edited by Miranda2525, 24 June 2019 - 03:28 AM.


#14 Miranda2525

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:02 AM

I’d be interested in the comparison too. I’m using a pair of Svbony 20mm in a Celestron binoviewer on an Evo 8, so a very similar setup to yours. 

I also use a pair of 20mm Svbony 66 deg eyepieces in my WO BV'er. They are awesome! 

 

I just came in from a planetary observing session. There was so much detail on Jupiter that I would had to have been there for many hours if I sketched it!


Edited by Miranda2525, 24 June 2019 - 03:03 AM.

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#15 Miranda2525

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:15 AM

I bought (2) of the William Optics 66deg eyepieces recently for my TS Standard Binoviewer for around $96/pair thinking i'd use my 14mm Morpheus eyepieces for binoviewing more often but they were not comfortable at all. The William Optics ones are good, but would I see a lot of difference if I bought the Explore Scientific 20mm ES 68's. I have a credit for the one 14mm Morpheus I returned so I thought these 20mm 68's from ES would be a worthy option. I could give one of the 20mm WO eyepieces to my son and donate the other to our astro club for the equipment loan program.

 

Thoughts? Would I see a big impact difference switching from the WO 66 20mm's to the 20mm  ES 68's?

 

https://www.highpoin...ece-epwp6820-01

 

Jon

I don't think you will notice a whole lot of a difference when using a binoviewer. If using alone, definitely. The only difference you will see is your wallet getting a whole lot lighter, lol. 

 

I paid $47 USD shipped for a pair of 20mm 66 deg Orion Expanse clones on Ebay. A pair of 20mm Explore 68's will cost you over $320 USD and the difference in views are not going to be $273 USD, lol.


Edited by Miranda2525, 24 June 2019 - 03:23 AM.


#16 Eddgie

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 07:34 AM

I had trouble with the tapered undercuts in some less expensive binoviewers, and even in the Mark V.

 

Worked great in the Denks and will work great in the Bino Vue.   These both have large plastic collars that support the eyepieces well, with no tilt at lockup.

 

I have not used the WO eyepieces, but the ES are very similar to the Panoptics in off axis quality, which is to say among the better wide field eyepieces out there.  Again, I have no direct experience with the WO eyepeices, but most inexpensive wide field eyepieces over the years have been poor off axis performers in faster scopes.  



#17 Miranda2525

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:44 PM

I had trouble with the tapered undercuts in some less expensive binoviewers, and even in the Mark V.

 

Worked great in the Denks and will work great in the Bino Vue.   These both have large plastic collars that support the eyepieces well, with no tilt at lockup.

 

I have not used the WO eyepieces, but the ES are very similar to the Panoptics in off axis quality, which is to say among the better wide field eyepieces out there.  Again, I have no direct experience with the WO eyepeices, but most inexpensive wide field eyepieces over the years have been poor off axis performers in faster scopes.  

Yes, but I for one, find inexpensive eyepieces fine in binoviewers. without the BV'ers, they are really, really bad, lol.



#18 Eddgie

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:57 PM

Yes, but I for one, find inexpensive eyepieces fine in binoviewers. without the BV'ers, they are really, really bad, lol.

We all have our own level of comfort and compromise with things optical.   Happy that inexpensive eyepieces work well for you.   



#19 Miranda2525

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 11:55 PM

We all have our own level of comfort and compromise with things optical.   Happy that inexpensive eyepieces work well for you.   

F/11.8 ,(when using BV'ers),to F/5, (without BV'ers).

 

Big difference.


Edited by Miranda2525, 24 June 2019 - 11:55 PM.


#20 Spacefreak1974

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:52 AM

I just ordered (2) ES68 20mm. I tried my son's 6.5mm ES52 and my 11mm ES82 and both fit fine in the TS holders. I will be sending one of the the William Optics 20mm's back and giving one to my son for his scope

 

I know there's the taper issue on ES, but multiple folks have indicated there's a simple fix to get them to work. I thought about the 19mm Panoptics, but the ES is a much better value.

 

Jon



#21 REC

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 10:53 AM

I just ordered (2) ES68 20mm. I tried my son's 6.5mm ES52 and my 11mm ES82 and both fit fine in the TS holders. I will be sending one of the the William Optics 20mm's back and giving one to my son for his scope

 

I know there's the taper issue on ES, but multiple folks have indicated there's a simple fix to get them to work. I thought about the 19mm Panoptics, but the ES is a much better value.

 

Jon

I have ES and they fit fine in the WO, snug fit.


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