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Recommendation for a widefield eyepiece

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#1 astroman100082

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 07:06 AM

Hey everyone! I have the Celestron CPC 11, and I want to add a nice planetary eyepiece and another for DSO of about 30 mm. Both will be 2" if needed smile.gif

Can I find 2 decent ones with a budget of about 500-600$ for both?

 

I have to add that I live in the desert so the skies here are amazing, and when using the Celestron zoom eyepiece with 8mm for planets I can still see very good most of the times smile.gif

 

Thanks!


Edited by astroman100082, 27 June 2019 - 07:21 AM.


#2 rustynpp

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 08:02 AM

$500-600 for two EPs should go very far, especially if you're willing to buy used. The king of the low-end widefield EPs is, of course, the 31mm Nagler T5, which can be had used for the mid-$400s. You could also get a new ES 30mm 82* for $350, or cheaper used. That's probably the better fit, given your budget and the very narrow gap in quality between the two. Note that if you have astigmatism and would like to correct it with a Dioptrx, it will natively work with the Nagler. Not sure if it would fit on the ES, but I'm sure someone else knows.

 

The planetary EP is a bit more complicated. There are a few questions that will guide your choice:

  1. Do you wear eyeglasses when you observe, or do you otherwise strongly prefer a lot of eye relief?
  2. Are you looking for a replacement for a focal length covered by the Celestron zoom, or something outside its range?
  3. If the former, is there a particular focal length you find yourself using a lot with planets?
  4. Do you prefer a widefield EP, or is a narrow field ok?

Edited by rustynpp, 27 June 2019 - 08:11 AM.


#3 havasman

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 08:19 AM

Since your conditions are so good, maybe the larger exit pupil and slightly larger field of an ES68 40mm could have value. It is very good in my faster scopes and should perform well in yours. The 4.0mm exit pupil versus 3.0mm with the ES82 30mm would be brighter.



#4 Eddgie

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 09:18 AM

While you might be tempted to buy the 31mm Nagler, I would say that it depends on how much you are bothered by off axis aberrations.  If you are one of the people that is in the "I only care about the center of the field" camp, then even a cheap 2" eyepiece will work.  If though, you are in the "I like my field to be as sharp as possible all the way out to the field stop camp (I am in that population) then the 31mm Nagler may not be the best choice. (And why do people buy Naglers?  I would suppose that it is because they want both wide and sharp.  Otherwise, an Erfle will give you wide). 

 

The standard SCT has gobs of field curvature and coma as bad as an f/5 reflector.   Now this can escape notice in many eyepieces, but one of the eyepieces that will push the off axis aberration of the C11 is the 31mm Nagler.

 

For this reason, if you think you would like your field sharp all the way to the edge, the eyepiece I would recommend (and the one that has given the best low power field for me in standard SCTs) is the 41mm Panoptic.  Not only will stars appear much sharper at the edge, but you get a wider true field to boot.

 

Also, if you use LPR or nebula filters, the lower power gives a bigger exit pupil, that helps offset some of the dimming imposed by the filters.   And 68 degrees is pretty wide but again, the true field is bigger so that does offset some of the apparent field compromise.

 

For the "Planetary" eyepiece, I recommend a Baader Zoom.  You can spend a lot more money on fancy Orthos or other designs, but seeing is far more of a limit to planetary performance than eyepieces, and since seeing can change minute by minute, my own opinion is that the best planetary eyepiece is the one that gives you the exact power needed to get the most out of the seeing that is present, and very quickly change power when seeing improves.  As I always close this recommendation, I say that the best planetary eyepiece in the world is no good if it is not in the eyepiece holder when you get those precious few moments that occur frequently during the average session.  I have gone from 250x to 500x and back in 20 seconds.   The vast majority of the fine detail you will see will be given to you during these short periods.  I use zooms for all solar system observing now.   Nothing else has allowed me to see as much. 


Edited by Eddgie, 27 June 2019 - 11:07 AM.

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#5 Tank

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 10:51 AM

If your using primarily a C11 i would say you can use a 30 ES 82 for WF

If your using in faster scopes i would get a 31T5 Nagler for WF

 

10-12mm is probably about right for higher mags

this would hover around the 300x

 

I would go with a 

Delos 8,10,12 

or

Pentax XW 10

 

used market is the way to go


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#6 REC

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 11:01 AM

If you don't want to spend that much, the ES 32mm SWA is a good choice. I use mine with nebula filters for bright exit pupils.



#7 jakecru

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 11:24 AM

For a good 30 mm, I would suggest one of these three:

 

Explore Scientific 30mm 82 degree eyepiece (a bit heavy, but no problem for a CPC 1100)

APM 30mm UFF eyepiece -long eye relief if you wear glasses 

31 Nagler -Pure Awesome

 

For planetary, there are a few routes you could go with excellent results:

 

9 Morpheus

10 XW or 10 Delos

12 Delos

12.5 Morpheus

13 Ethos

12 ES 92 Degree

14 Delos

 

A 10 mm will provide a nice 1 mm exit pupil for planets, but 280x is a lot of power and the seeing must be good. The 12.5 Morpheus would provide 224 power which should be more use able on a lot of nights. The 14 mm Delos at 200x would be the one used a lot. I think i'd get one in the 12-14 mm range, and a 10 mm for the very good nights. The 12.5 Morpheus is a very solid budget option if you want to shoot for a 31 Nagler. 


Edited by jakecru, 27 June 2019 - 11:26 AM.


#8 Procyon

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:38 PM

I have a C11, if I was restarting right now I'd go with something like this:

12mm ES 92 for Planets/Globulars or any 9-10mm Delos/Pentax/Morpheus

17mm ES 92 or 20mm APM/TS 100 for Open Clusters/Galaxies

30-32mm for many Nebulae ES 30, Nagler 31

Or 17 100, 25 100, 40-41 68

Edited by Procyon, 27 June 2019 - 03:46 PM.

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#9 astroman100082

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:46 PM

 

$500-600 for two EPs should go very far, especially if you're willing to buy used. The king of the low-end widefield EPs is, of course, the 31mm Nagler T5, which can be had used for the mid-$400s. You could also get a new ES 30mm 82* for $350, or cheaper used. That's probably the better fit, given your budget and the very narrow gap in quality between the two. Note that if you have astigmatism and would like to correct it with a Dioptrx, it will natively work with the Nagler. Not sure if it would fit on the ES, but I'm sure someone else knows.

 

The planetary EP is a bit more complicated. There are a few questions that will guide your choice:

  1. Do you wear eyeglasses when you observe, or do you otherwise strongly prefer a lot of eye relief?
  2. Are you looking for a replacement for a focal length covered by the Celestron zoom, or something outside its range?
  3. If the former, is there a particular focal length you find yourself using a lot with planets?
  4. Do you prefer a widefield EP, or is a narrow field ok?

 

So thank you very much for the help guys!

 

first of all I will answer your questions :)

1. not wearing eye glasses and dont mind if it's a lot or a little eye relief.

2.I prefer a replacement (I will still use the zoom eyepiece if needed) but something that will have maximum 8 mm focal length because I really have good seeing a lot of times.

3. Most of the times I use 8-10 mm with the zoom.

4.I dont mind a narrow field one, if it has some benefits over the widefield one. Or it's just a matter of price? :)

 

So basically should I try to look for a Nagler or is the cheaper solutions will be pretty similar? For planetary use I dont think the off axis aberrations will be a problem. But for DSO I prefer to have the sharpest field :)



#10 rkelley8493

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 04:17 PM

So thank you very much for the help guys!

 

first of all I will answer your questions smile.gif

1. not wearing eye glasses and dont mind if it's a lot or a little eye relief.

2.I prefer a replacement (I will still use the zoom eyepiece if needed) but something that will have maximum 8 mm focal length because I really have good seeing a lot of times.

3. Most of the times I use 8-10 mm with the zoom.

4.I dont mind a narrow field one, if it has some benefits over the widefield one. Or it's just a matter of price? smile.gif

 

So basically should I try to look for a Nagler or is the cheaper solutions will be pretty similar? For planetary use I dont think the off axis aberrations will be a problem. But for DSO I prefer to have the sharpest field smile.gif

If you use 8-10 mm most of the time, the 10mm Pentax XW would be a great choice. It's one of my favorites in my LX90-10". The views are very sharp, crisp, clean, and have great contrast. If you want to go higher, an 8mm Delos or 7mm XW would also be great. Planetary nebulae look very nice in those eyepieces. The moon & Saturn also take well to that high of magnification. 

For a wide field eyepiece, I'd recommend the 22mm Type 4 Nagler. It's one of the best there is in my humble opinion. I use it more than my 21 Ethos, it's that good. 

Other choices [there are a lot of great ones out there]... The Explore Sci 92° series is amazing. They have HUGE eye lenses, and they're like windows to outer space. They definitely have that "WOW" factor. Only negative is there's only two eyepieces in the series., 12 & 17. 

Explore Sci 30/82° is a very good wide field EP for SCT's. The 31 Nagler is a little better [imho], but the ES is a good economical substitute. I had some issues with the Explore Sci 40/68° and ended up returning it. It suffers very badly from blackouts, and the eye placement is very difficult as well. That's just my experience though. 


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#11 Richard Whalen

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 09:33 AM

I would get the 31 Nagler first choice, 41mm panoptic second and save for your high power eyepiece. Eyepieces can last a lifetime or two, will save you from another upgrade down the road. Since you have a zoom that goes to 8mm, I would look at a 6 or 7mm planetary eyepiece as it will be useful on your best nights if your optics are good. One of my favorite eyepieces that can be found used for less than a hundred dollars is the old Meade 7mm RG ortho. If you want to dupilcate your zoom (I would not) 8mm Brandon is a fine planetary eyepiece. At 6mm something like the Tak abbe, Pentax smc ortho etc if small eyepieces dont bother you and have your head hitting the OTA. 

 

For planetary I find comfort is really important as you may want to spend hours at the eyepiece to ferret out the last details. I can use narrow fov .965 and 1-1/4" eyepieces all night long in comfort with my scopes, other scopes or observers maybe not so much. For a high power eyepiece in a tracking telescope I would not go beyond a 60 degree afov, and typically stick to 52 or less. Your results will vary......



#12 Procyon

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 05:03 PM

I'd definitely want something in the 17-22 area first, all the way no questions about it actually. Unless, you live in the countryside and LOVE Nebulae Mostly. Than, for sure the 31 and 41 would be top choices. Great for comets as well.

 

But for Globulars, Galaxies, scanning, Planets on bad days, Open clusters, PNe locating definitely get a 17-22mm, if I had to choose right now the 20mm 100 is becoming my favorite and most used. Can't beat that 2mm exit pupil for many objects. The field is just immense also. I have a 25mm ES 100 for Wide Open Clusters, and the 20 100 gives it a ride for it's money on the total field size, both apparent and true.

 

If money was no issue I'd have this set:

 

7mm Pentax XW, 8mm TV Delos, 9mm ES 120, 9mm TS-Optics 100, 10mm Pentax XW/Delos, 12mm ES 92, 14mm ES 100, 17mm ES 92, 17mm Nikon HW, 20mm APM/TS-Optics 100, 25mm ES 100, 31mm TV Nagler, 41mm TV Panoptic, or 30/40mm Pentax XW. grin.gif

 

The 22mm TV Nagler is great also, but would definitely take a 20 100 instead. Yes. I'm an AFOV total nut, but you want it with an SCT. Can't have a maxxed out TFOV? might as well have a pimped out AFOV, lol.


Edited by Procyon, 28 June 2019 - 05:07 PM.


#13 Mike W

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:17 PM

PANOPTIC!



#14 astroman100082

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 07:01 AM

If you use 8-10 mm most of the time, the 10mm Pentax XW would be a great choice. It's one of my favorites in my LX90-10". The views are very sharp, crisp, clean, and have great contrast. If you want to go higher, an 8mm Delos or 7mm XW would also be great. Planetary nebulae look very nice in those eyepieces. The moon & Saturn also take well to that high of magnification. 

For a wide field eyepiece, I'd recommend the 22mm Type 4 Nagler. It's one of the best there is in my humble opinion. I use it more than my 21 Ethos, it's that good. 

Other choices [there are a lot of great ones out there]... The Explore Sci 92° series is amazing. They have HUGE eye lenses, and they're like windows to outer space. They definitely have that "WOW" factor. Only negative is there's only two eyepieces in the series., 12 & 17. 

Explore Sci 30/82° is a very good wide field EP for SCT's. The 31 Nagler is a little better [imho], but the ES is a good economical substitute. I had some issues with the Explore Sci 40/68° and ended up returning it. It suffers very badly from blackouts, and the eye placement is very difficult as well. That's just my experience though. 

I forgot to mention I have the 14 mm ES 100 which is amazing!

 

I still can't decide which focal length to get for DSO's 17-22? 30? 40? tongue2.gif  difficult

decision


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#15 Procyon

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:03 AM

I forgot to mention I have the 14 mm ES 100 which is amazing!

I still can't decide which focal length to get for DSO's 17-22? 30? 40? tongue2.gif difficult
decision

Both...17-22 on our scopes is for Galaxies, Open Clusters, etc., 30 and 40mm are mostly for Nebulae....

17-22 gets easily 75% of viewing time in my 11". More like 80%.

Edited by Procyon, 29 June 2019 - 10:05 AM.

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#16 Ihtegla Sar

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:49 AM

The 17mm ES 92 is an awesome eyepiece. I have the 14mm (and 9mm) ES 100 eyepieces but the 17mm 92 (and the 12mm) are a whole other level of amazing. It took me a few times observing with the 92 series to realize why people like them so much. The first couple timed I used my 12mm 92 it seemed about the same as my 14mm 100 but last night I finally had the opportunity to try out my 17mm 92. Comparing it to my 18mm 82 degree, which I find to be a fine eyepiece was an eye opener. The 18mm went back in the case and the only eyepieces I used the rest of the night were the 92s, except for when I needed higher magnification or wider field, in which case I used the ES 9mm 100 or the 30mm 82 degree eyepieces.

The 92 series are really easy to look through because the glass is so big and they have so much eye relief.
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#17 Procyon

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 11:34 AM

Love that huge ES 92 lens, 17mm ES 92 or 20mm 100 would be the first eyepiece I'd get for an 11" SCT. 20 is more versatile though. Because of the 2mm exit pupil, vs 1.7. Or 140x vs 165x.

Edited by Procyon, 29 June 2019 - 11:39 AM.

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#18 rkelley8493

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:31 PM

I forgot to mention I have the 14 mm ES 100 which is amazing!

 

I still can't decide which focal length to get for DSO's 17-22? 30? 40? tongue2.gif  difficult

decision

For a 10/11 inch SCT, I find 17mm to be good medium-high power [150x +/-].  22mm is good medium power [115x +/-]. Those are really good on individual galaxies and some that are close together like M65 & M66. You could probably fit M81 & M82 in the same field with a 22, but you might need to slew a little in either direction. I can see the most detail of M81 & M82 with my 12mm 92°. The dark, fire-like center of M82 is easily seen in that eyepiece, as well as the spiral arms of M81.  


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#19 rkelley8493

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 03:22 PM

The 17mm ES 92 is an awesome eyepiece. I have the 14mm (and 9mm) ES 100 eyepieces but the 17mm 92 (and the 12mm) are a whole other level of amazing. It took me a few times observing with the 92 series to realize why people like them so much. The first couple timed I used my 12mm 92 it seemed about the same as my 14mm 100 but last night I finally had the opportunity to try out my 17mm 92. Comparing it to my 18mm 82 degree, which I find to be a fine eyepiece was an eye opener. The 18mm went back in the case and the only eyepieces I used the rest of the night were the 92s, except for when I needed higher magnification or wider field, in which case I used the ES 9mm 100 or the 30mm 82 degree eyepieces.

The 92 series are really easy to look through because the glass is so big and they have so much eye relief.

The 14mm 100° is almost as good as the 12mm 92°. There are times when I prefer one over the other. They're very similar in terms of magnification, field of view, brightness & contrast, but they have a lot of differences too [eye relief, eye lens, etc.]. I think the 92's really have that WOW factor. They're really fun to use.


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#20 james webb

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 05:20 AM

On good seeing nights ( which are infrequent) I can use my 8mm LVW for pinpoint lunar observing along with the TAL LE 10mm though have found that the 12mm Delos is the ideal eyepiece for Jupiter and Saturn. After looking at Jupiter with my 21 Ethos which gave me the moons and the dark space background my next purchase will be the 13 Ethos or 12mm ES 12mm 92 degree. My WO 40mm is used to roam the night sky which I enjoy, the 31mm Nagler and 21mm Ethos for observing objects.


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#21 Ronofthedead07

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 01:54 PM

For low power I think you’d be hard pressed to do batter than a 41mm Panoptic...it’s pretty much designed for a large SCT and will show you the widest possible field. t’ll set you back around $400 used, though. The 35 is a good alternative for around $250 used. Good for faint fuzzies and framing larger objects.

If you really want 82 degrees at low power, the ES 30/82 is a low(er) cost alternative to the 31 Nagler.

Your mid power options really depend on the focal length, AFOV and eye relief you want. Focal lengths around 20mm will probably prove most useful.

In my C8 I used the 35 Panoptic, 22 Nagler, 17 ES/92 and they were all quite good.

If I had to choose two with a budget of $500 I would probably get a used 35mm Panoptic and a used 20mm Nagler T2.

Edited by Ronofthedead07, 30 June 2019 - 01:59 PM.

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#22 astroman100082

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 10:50 AM

So currently I'm leaning towards the 10 or 12 Delos for planetary, and for the medium power I will try to find a used Nagler or get a 20mm ES.

By the way, is there a post that explains the different kind of Nagler types? 


Edited by astroman100082, 01 July 2019 - 12:42 PM.


#23 izar187

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 01:37 PM

From right nearby in this EP forum:

https://www.cloudyni...w/#entry9463337



#24 rkelley8493

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:20 PM

So currently I'm leaning towards the 10 or 12 Delos for planetary, and for the medium power I will try to find a used Nagler or get a 20mm ES.

By the way, is there a post that explains the different kind of Nagler types? 

Quoted from TeleVue's website

 

Why Are There 3 Types of Naglers?
To achieve the full magnification range over 82° apparent field of view requires two types: Nagler Type-5 with focal lengths of 31, 16mm and Nagler Type-6 with focal lengths of 13, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3.5, 2.5mm.

The Type-5 permits the largest true field possible (31mm has 42mm field stop).

Type-6 models have shorter focal lengths, are parfocal, with similiar size and weight, and all with a comfortable 12mm eye relief.

The Type-4 models feature about 18mm of eye relief and with the "instajust" eyeguard are best for eyeglass wearers or Dioptrx users in their 22, 17, 12mm focal length range



#25 dgordontx

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 11:06 AM

APM XWA HDC. I have the 9mm and it is amazing.




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