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Takahashi TSA120N

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#101 SandyHouTex

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 10:49 PM

Not sure I follow you. Maybe I misconstrued your earlier statement. What came to mind was a comparison a friend and I made between his FS 152 and my EDF155. His showed a slight bit more CA and did Not best the 155.

So no, a scope with a bit more CA didnt provide the better image.

Maybe you were referring to something like the FS vs a 6-8" dob? Or sct? Or ? If so, then yes of course, the 152 excels; even with its tiny bit of CA.

Once again the comparison is a triplet versus a doublet.  A doublet, even using Fluorite will have a bit more CA then a well designed triplet.  IT’s apples to oranges.


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#102 StarDust1

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 06:01 AM

It's a result of the design, there isn't a single point at which all the blue is in focus, resulting in a slightly yellow or warm tone. It is more pronounced in the FS 128, and even more in the FS 152 because going from the 102 to the 128 to the 152 the focal length scaled up less than the aperture at each step. Still superb scopes by any measure, I loved my 128 and would be quite satisfied with another, the color tone is still very subtle and one's brain color corrects it after just a few seconds and it becomes a non issue unless you have it side by side with another scope.

But the TSA design is absolutely top shelf and I'd take it over the FS 102 in a heartbeat.


Paul, thank you for the clarification, that makes sense. I do love the FS102, it takes crazy high magnification. And overall build quality is excellent.

#103 bobhen

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 07:14 AM

It’s important to point out the Traveler is a triplet and the FS-102 is a doublet.  Properly done, a triplet should always do better than a doublet.  That the FS-102 can keep up, is a testament to it’s excellent design.

It's the fact that the FS-102 is "F8" that allows it to "keep up". Make the FS 102 a fast F5.9 like the Traveler and the design falls apart. Or make the Traveler F8 and it will best the FS 102 just like the F8 TSA 102.

 

The FS-102 is not as much a testament of optical design as is the extremely fast "F5.9" AP Traveler. You can make the Traveler "perform even better" at F8 but you "can't" make the FS 102 perform better at a faster F 5.9 like the Traveler. 

 

Bob


Edited by bobhen, 11 February 2021 - 07:14 AM.

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#104 SandyHouTex

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 10:32 AM

It's the fact that the FS-102 is "F8" that allows it to "keep up". Make the FS 102 a fast F5.9 like the Traveler and the design falls apart. Or make the Traveler F8 and it will best the FS 102 just like the F8 TSA 102.

 

The FS-102 is not as much a testament of optical design as is the extremely fast "F5.9" AP Traveler. You can make the Traveler "perform even better" at F8 but you "can't" make the FS 102 perform better at a faster F 5.9 like the Traveler. 

 

Bob

“And if the dog hadn’t stopped to pee, he would have caught the rabbit.”

 

Here’s the final conclusion from Ed’s review:

 

”So, call it a close draw.  Both the FS102 and the Traveler are superb telescopes.

The Traveler has a slight edge in color correction, although some may prefer the
larger image scale of the Takahashi.  As I went back and forth between them, I
found that my favorite was the one I had just looked through.  Of the four ob-
servers present, two preferred the Traveler, and two favored the FS102.”

 

So call it a draw.


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#105 edif300

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 10:53 AM

It's the fact that the FS-102 is "F8" that allows it to "keep up". Make the FS 102 a fast F5.9 like the Traveler and the design falls apart. Or make the Traveler F8 and it will best the FS 102 just like the F8 TSA 102.

 

The FS-102 is not as much a testament of optical design as is the extremely fast "F5.9" AP Traveler. You can make the Traveler "perform even better" at F8 but you "can't" make the FS 102 perform better at a faster F 5.9 like the Traveler. 

 

Bob

Hi Bob,

 

I never did understand this argumentation through only one direction, making the FS at F5. Please can you elavorate it? Is for you the Traveller a reference design with to elavorate the cut line for desing falls?

 

IMO, there is no need to bring the FS in a F5 as its an doublet. For example... also would take reverse direction: Making the Traveller in a doublet with no Fluorite at F8. Seems to me (just IMO) the Traveler (triplet ED) was the answer to FCT (triplet Fluorite). So this could be to me the *fair* A vs B. Right at F5 (in triplet) with no CaF2 has enough color.


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#106 25585

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 11:19 AM

Long FL fluorite will score over ED of the same FL F# ED. My DL beats both my 100 ED & TV-102, which are F9 & F8.8 respectively. Oh for a TSA-102 to compare with the DL.

 

Comparing my ED120 with TSA-120, the former is very good. TSA-120 is best on bright blues and whites, but both fracs are more even on warmer colours. Multiple stars of different colours are better thru the Tak.


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#107 bobhen

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 01:50 PM

“And if the dog hadn’t stopped to pee, he would have caught the rabbit.”

 

Here’s the final conclusion from Ed’s review:

 

”So, call it a close draw.  Both the FS102 and the Traveler are superb telescopes.

The Traveler has a slight edge in color correction, although some may prefer the
larger image scale of the Takahashi.  As I went back and forth between them, I
found that my favorite was the one I had just looked through.  Of the four ob-
servers present, two preferred the Traveler, and two favored the FS102.”

 

So call it a draw.

I understand that in their "current configurations" the two are somewhat equal visually. But the "more innovative" design belongs to the Traveler because even as currently configured the Traveler can do things visually and photographically that the Tak FS102 cannot.

 

The Tak FS 102 cannot be made as fast as the Traveler but the Traveler could be made as slow as the FS 102 and perform even better. 

 

Bob


Edited by bobhen, 11 February 2021 - 01:52 PM.

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#108 bobhen

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 01:54 PM

Hi Bob,

 

I never did understand this argumentation through only one direction, making the FS at F5. Please can you elavorate it? Is for you the Traveller a reference design with to elavorate the cut line for desing falls?

 

IMO, there is no need to bring the FS in a F5 as its an doublet. For example... also would take reverse direction: Making the Traveller in a doublet with no Fluorite at F8. Seems to me (just IMO) the Traveler (triplet ED) was the answer to FCT (triplet Fluorite). So this could be to me the *fair* A vs B. Right at F5 (in triplet) with no CaF2 has enough color.

See my post 107

 

Bob



#109 n2068dd

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 03:15 PM

For me, TSA design looks old fashioned like FCT. A little slow F ratio set it better than FCT, maybe.

Comparing MK or reflectors, both still have false colors in my eye though almost negligible.

Despite, 4 inch FCT-100 looked clearly better than 6 inch Intes Makstov Newton on the Mars side by side.

It was true with my friends there, and also with Intes owner. Things seems not so easy.

 

Comparing DSO like NGC7000 or Vail, Every one say refractor have better contrast than more larger reflectors.

Last year, I select 10" Intes Makstov instead of FCT-150 at our star party in dark site with SQM21.87.

Every one said NGC7000 looked better on the FCT150 than 10" MAK. and I also felt it. The contrast was the matter.

 

TSA120 F7.5 is the successor of the FCT125 F5.6.  As Tak say TSA would be better. FCT-125 was ultra rare scope, not so many reviews out there, though I hear FCT125 F5.6 has better resolution than FC-125 F8.

I did not had a chance to compare FCT to EDF-155 or TMB-150, though these are triplets the performance is not so different I think.

 

Though, my recent desire is to add light weight 5 inch ED doublet for grab and go. I often use FCT-76 with a little needs for the apertures. ASTRO-TECH AT125EDL may be the spot on I think. TSA-120 is expensive for me.

 

Regards


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#110 SandyHouTex

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 05:55 PM

I have a TSA-102 and have never seen any color on anything ever.  I assume my new TSA-120N will be the same.

 

Here's a review of the Traveler from a different "scope review" website in the uk:

 

http://www.scopeview...ravelerV2.0.htm

 

There's mention of severe field curvature, red on the limb of mars, yellow on the limb of the moon, coma in the outer field, and a certain "scope reviewer" who considers the Traveler a "semi-apo" because of it not being corrected in the red.


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#111 bobhen

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Posted 11 February 2021 - 06:11 PM

I have a TSA-102 and have never seen any color on anything ever.  I assume my new TSA-120N will be the same.

 

Here's a review of the Traveler from a different "scope review" website in the uk:

 

http://www.scopeview...ravelerV2.0.htm

 

There's mention of severe field curvature, red on the limb of mars, yellow on the limb of the moon, coma in the outer field, and a certain "scope reviewer" who considers the Traveler a "semi-apo" because of it not being corrected in the red.

That same reviewer, who has also reviewed the FS102 and many other 4" refractors and telescopes in general, ends his Traveler review with...

 

"The AP Traveler is my favourite telescope of my favourite type (the four-inch APO) and it really is tiny – small enough to use as a birding or spotting scope if you want. So, it’s arguably the most useful general purpose telescope ever. Too bad they don’t make ‘em anymore and probably never will again."

 

The reviewer also purchased the Traveler.

 

PS: Congrats on the TSA 120. You will love that scope. 

 

Bob


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#112 edif300

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 12:31 AM

and a certain "scope reviewer" who considers the Traveler a "semi-apo"

This. In concordance with the two Traveller that I have had viewed through too.

 

BTW it has great appeal and construction OTA. Good scope.


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#113 SandyHouTex

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 11:34 AM

That same reviewer, who has also reviewed the FS102 and many other 4" refractors and telescopes in general, ends his Traveler review with...

 

"The AP Traveler is my favourite telescope of my favourite type (the four-inch APO) and it really is tiny – small enough to use as a birding or spotting scope if you want. So, it’s arguably the most useful general purpose telescope ever. Too bad they don’t make ‘em anymore and probably never will again."

 

The reviewer also purchased the Traveler.

 

PS: Congrats on the TSA 120. You will love that scope. 

 

Bob

Thanks.



#114 GoodAsh

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 12:00 PM

Woohoo!  Just unboxed my TSA 120N. Wow, built like a tank. Exudes quality. Waiting on the finderscope and Primaluce rings to do a star test. I’m very impressed so far!

 

Al

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#115 25585

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 12:07 PM

I have a TSA-102 and have never seen any color on anything ever.  I assume my new TSA-120N will be the same.

 

Here's a review of the Traveler from a different "scope review" website in the uk:

 

http://www.scopeview...ravelerV2.0.htm

 

There's mention of severe field curvature, red on the limb of mars, yellow on the limb of the moon, coma in the outer field, and a certain "scope reviewer" who considers the Traveler a "semi-apo" because of it not being corrected in the red.

When I saw a Traveller for sale, that review killed my desire to buy it.


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#116 GoodAsh

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 12:11 PM

Side by side with the FS-102. 

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#117 Heywood

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 12:41 PM

Woohoo! Just unboxed my TSA 120N. Wow, built like a tank. Exudes quality. Waiting on the finderscope and Primaluce rings to do a star test. I’m very impressed so far!

Al


Very Japanese.
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#118 SandyHouTex

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 06:27 PM

Woohoo!  Just unboxed my TSA 120N. Wow, built like a tank. Exudes quality. Waiting on the finderscope and Primaluce rings to do a star test. I’m very impressed so far!

 

Al

Looks a lot bigger in person I must say.  Mines still in the box, but it’s a long box.


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#119 Oyaji

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Posted 12 February 2021 - 11:49 PM

Long box, indeed.

 

I'm another new member of the "N" club.  I got my TSA120N the other day from Land, Sea & Sky and have installed the Prima Luce ring system which I ordered back in January when I ordered the scope.  

 

Beautiful scope, and pictures don't do it justice. Still, like a couple of proud fathers, GoodAsh and I have been exchanging pictures of our new babies back-n-forth for the last couple of days.  

 

I was pleasantly surprised that the scope had the MEF-3 fine focus installed.  Not that the MEF-3 is gonna do me much good, because I have installed the ZWO EAF electronic focus motor on the focuser and will use the scope mainly for astrophotography.  But I can always back off the set screws connecting the EAF to the focuser shaft if I want to use full manual focus.  And yes, I know the TSA120 is just a tad slow for astrophotography, but my faster 1000 mm f/l Mak-Newt weighs more than twice as much and is killing my back.  

 

Incidentally, I have ordered one of these to connect up a TPO right angle finderscope or a Baader Sky Surfer, both of which I already own, for visual: https://astrohutech....or-takahashi/  


Edited by Oyaji, 12 February 2021 - 11:58 PM.

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#120 bobhen

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 06:43 AM

Looks a lot bigger in person I must say.  Mines still in the box, but it’s a long box.

HERE is a link to an early review of the TSA 120. Scroll down and there is an image of an FS 128, TSA 120 and a TSA 102 for a comparison. You can see in the image that the TSA 120 is not that much bigger than the TSA 102.

 

Bob


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#121 RAKing

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 10:16 AM

HERE is a link to an early review of the TSA 120. Scroll down and there is an image of an FS 128, TSA 120 and a TSA 102 for a comparison. You can see in the image that the TSA 120 is not that much bigger than the TSA 102.

 

Bob

The main difference will be the fixed dew shield of the "N" model.

 

I enjoyed using my 120N model.  It was lighter and a bit less expensive than the regular version.  But I discovered that the shorter "regular" model with the sliding dew shield was much easier for me to maneuver around the house and out the door.  So I arranged a trade with a friend who wanted the fixed dew shield version.  Both of us are happy with our choices.

 

The TSA-120 is a superb telescope, no matter which version you have!

 

Cheers,

 

Ron


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#122 SandyHouTex

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 10:41 AM

HERE is a link to an early review of the TSA 120. Scroll down and there is an image of an FS 128, TSA 120 and a TSA 102 for a comparison. You can see in the image that the TSA 120 is not that much bigger than the TSA 102.

 

Bob

Except that the N has a fixed dewshield, which is what I wanted.

 

Thanks for the link of the review.  Tak Europe has deleted those spot plots.


Edited by SandyHouTex, 13 February 2021 - 10:42 AM.


#123 HoloTheWolf

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 04:17 PM

Just want to share the joy. My TSA-120N arrived three days ago. My first Tak ever!  Bought it used from a CN member.

It is 7 months old and in excellent condition. Currently I am using William Optics Zenithstar 61 Mark II.

I expect TSA-120N to be pretty sizable, but oh my, I didn't realize 120mm is soooo much bigger than Z61 grin.gif

I'm doing imaging primarily. Planning to get a reducer (TOA-35RD for TOA-150) for it.

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#124 SandyHouTex

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 05:38 PM

Just want to share the joy. My TSA-120N arrived three days ago. My first Tak ever!  Bought it used from a CN member.

It is 7 months old and in excellent condition. Currently I am using William Optics Zenithstar 61 Mark II.

I expect TSA-120N to be pretty sizable, but oh my, I didn't realize 120mm is soooo much bigger than Z61 grin.gif

I'm doing imaging primarily. Planning to get a reducer (TOA-35RD for TOA-150) for it.

Beautiful!


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#125 Oyaji

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Posted 13 February 2021 - 07:29 PM

Just want to share the joy. My TSA-120N arrived three days ago. My first Tak ever!  Bought it used from a CN member.

It is 7 months old and in excellent condition. Currently I am using William Optics Zenithstar 61 Mark II.

I expect TSA-120N to be pretty sizable, but oh my, I didn't realize 120mm is soooo much bigger than Z61 grin.gif

I'm doing imaging primarily. Planning to get a reducer (TOA-35RD for TOA-150) for it.

What is that bracket attached to the bottom of the focuser?  Is that for attachment of a focuser motor?  




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