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New Takahashi FC-100 DZ F/8 !

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#176 Edrow10

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 11:45 AM

Looking forward to your assessment Dr. D.


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#177 25585

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 04:52 PM

Daniel, so sorry you lost your father. :(

 

Looking forward to your review of the DZ. 


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#178 m9x18

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 05:30 PM

Daniel, I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my father quite a few years ago and I know it must be a difficult time for you. I wish you and your family all the best and pray you will remain strong and continue to live life to its fullest. Although I look forward to every word you write, the DZ review can wait until you're ready.            


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#179 StarDust1

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 07:18 PM

Good to hear from you, Daniel!
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#180 Bill Barlow

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:27 PM

Sorry you lost your father, Daniel.  My dad passed away 10 years ago and I still think of him frequently.  Looking forward to your review of the 100 DZ.

 

Bill


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#181 Steve Allison

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:48 PM

I am so sorry about your loss, Daniel. Many of us have been there and have learned the passage of time will make things easier. I hope you can take comfort in knowing your many internet friends on this site are thinking about you and wishing you well.

 

Sincerely,

 

Steve


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#182 Tyson M

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 12:38 AM

Okay, trying to get back on track here after a challenging past several weeks losing my father. I finally built up enough strength to take Tak's all new FC100DZ over to Derek Wong's this last Saturday late evening for some basic preliminary observations. We set the scope up and just let it sit with the focuser tube open for about two hours prior to observation. We used a Tak 2" diagonal and I also brought over Televue's new Apollo 11 eyepiece to use with with the DZ. Seeing peaked to about 7 out of 10 in my estimation so it was good enough to form some opinions. Derek used a 5mm T6 Nagler as well. I should say that this is one of the most unexpected observations for reasons you are about to see. I'll post some notes today for those of you interested. 

Sorry about the loss of your father.

 

Looking forward to your comparisons.  I had a TSA102S which I regret letting go as it was sublime and optically perfect. But it was a big, bulky 100mm scope.  Almost similar to an NP127, just not quite in weight.

 

I had it out on an EQ6 mostly which is why I let it go...I probably should have bought a new mount.

 

I think it barely suffices on an M2 and it may need a heavier CGEM tripod if so, where a DF or DC could go on an M2 with a CG4 1.75" tripod.

 

Anyways the DZ looks like it rides well on the M2 and gitzo, which is simlar to my CG4 1.75" tripod.  


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#183 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 08:42 AM

Thank you all for the kind thoughts. I've been putting this off for a while and felt compelled to share something about the DZ that I was not expecting. I finally collected enough strength to get on with this. First, I'd like to cover some brief Takahashi history by sharing my experiences about these fascinating little doublets with regard to their color tonality and by that I'm not referring to violet/false color. I'm referring to the warmth and coolness of the image. Back in the day, I had the fortunate opportunity to test a great number of Tak samples including the original battleship gray FC100's. They are extremely rare and get purchased very fast on the used market and rightly so. We all have degrees of color perception and some opinions may vary slightly but here are a few of mine. IMO, the original FC's always leaned slightly towards neutral while the newer FS's and newer FC's leaned more towards the warm side of neutral. I then have TSA's coming in extremely pure white neutral (ice cold). Star colors will be their most accurate, particularly at high magnification compared to others.
 
It's hard to be certain if the mating element and/or perhaps the optical coatings truly influenced the outcome regarding the FS's and FC's. It is very well known that many of us, myself included have commented that fluorite crystal tends to lean slightly towards the warm side of neutral. So, what is it with all this? I am quite perplexed with the DZ though in ways I was not expecting with regard to two things and I think Derek Wong was feeling the same. One, we were expecting to see at least some degree of false color outside of focus (perfectly normal) and two, at least some degree of slight warmth. The DZ had none of this. Absolutely pure white on Sirius at any magnification in or out of focus. Derek was also so pleased with the optical figure he just decided to keep the scope. I said... okay, another one for the collection. This is the most amazing doublet as far as color correction I've ever tested to date (ice cold) and indistinguishable visually from any TSA I can remember and it's portable to boot. It also proves how important the mating element is. Even some triplets I've tested are not this well color corrected. So there you have a brief synopsis.


Edited by Daniel Mounsey, 25 February 2020 - 09:10 AM.

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#184 Bill Barlow

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 11:03 AM

Hi Daniel,

 

Did Takahashi use a different mating lens element with the DZ compared to the other FC100 doublets (DC, DF, DL)?

 

Bill



#185 Edrow10

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 11:19 AM

Yes, they did.


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#186 ullomat

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 04:55 PM

Hi Daniel,

thanks for sharing your observations!

I have a DZ and think it is a little more on the "warm" side as my former DL was. 

What eyepieces did you use and what exit pupils?

cs,

Uli



#187 StarDust1

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 06:56 PM

Thank you Daniel for sharing and taking the time in these difficult times!
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#188 m9x18

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 07:17 PM

Ditto.


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#189 Lookitup

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 08:49 PM

Have a DF which seems "cooler" than either ED100, ED120 or Vixen 115S. 



#190 mikeDnight

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 07:26 AM

Daniel mentioned above that "degrees of colour perception can vary between individuals". I always viewed the Vixen FL102 as cool, my FS128 as ice white, but the first light with my FC100DC was decidedly warm. There was no false colour, just a mild warmth to the image. The DC was alongside a 120ED which appeared slightly cooler, but the DC gave a far better defined view of Jupiter's cloud belts than the larger 120ED. The difference in warmth was subtle but I wasn't the only one who noticed it. The FC100DC took my breath away with the unexpected level of detail it showed on Jupiter, and five years down the line I still don't regret selling my 120ED to fund the smaller Tak. 

 

Now Daniel has shed a little more light on the DZ, I am intrigued as to the difference between the different FC100D's. I thought I'd never consider selling my superlaitive FC100DC, but with Takahashi you should never say never!


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#191 Sergey Stern

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:44 AM

Daniel mentioned above that "degrees of colour perception can vary between individuals". I always viewed the Vixen FL102 as cool, my FS128 as ice white, but the first light with my FC100DC was decidedly warm. There was no false colour, just a mild warmth to the image. The DC was alongside a 120ED which appeared slightly cooler, but the DC gave a far better defined view of Jupiter's cloud belts than the larger 120ED. The difference in warmth was subtle but I wasn't the only one who noticed it. The FC100DC took my breath away with the unexpected level of detail it showed on Jupiter, and five years down the line I still don't regret selling my 120ED to fund the smaller Tak.

Now Daniel has shed a little more light on the DZ, I am intrigued as to the difference between the different FC100D's. I thought I'd never consider selling my superlaitive FC100DC, but with Takahashi you should never say never!


Mike, how does the 100DC render the blue? Does the warm tint of 100DC affect it if you observe doubles?

Sergey

Edited by semej, 26 February 2020 - 08:44 AM.


#192 mikeDnight

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:50 AM

Mike, how does the 100DC render the blue? Does the warm tint of 100DC affect it if you observe doubles?

Sergey

The star colours of the FC100DC are vibrant and the stars needle point sharp. Star fields are an absolute joy to behold, with no visible spurious colour fringing. Double stars are immensely enjoyable, and even when the doubles are of different magnitudes and colours, the FC shows nothing but a perfect image, even at high power during good seeing.


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#193 Sergey Stern

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 09:16 AM

The star colours of the FC100DC are vibrant and the stars needle point sharp. Star fields are an absolute joy to behold, with no visible spurious colour fringing. Double stars are immensely enjoyable, and even when the doubles are of different magnitudes and colours, the FC shows nothing but a perfect image, even at high power during good seeing.


Great. I was heading to buy the 100DC (for intended use with AZ-GTi) because of significantly smaller weight in comparison to 100DZ and after reading Daniels review I was concerned about color fidelity. Thank you!

Sergey

#194 Ihtegla Sar

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 10:09 AM

One thing to consider before trading in a DC/DF for a DZ is that a DC/DF will easily fit in a carryon bag for air travel if you remove the dew shield and focuser, which only takes a few seconds and doesn't require tools.

I'm not sure if the dew shield can be completely removed from the DZ or if there is any way to easily shorten it enough to fit in carryon since it has a longer focal ratio, and I don't have one to test. Anyone know?

#195 StarDust1

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 10:29 AM

What is the OTA length of the FC-100DZ with focuser removed?

#196 coopman

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 11:07 AM

Length is stated here:

https://www.landseas...-refractor.html


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#197 25585

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 12:18 PM

http://www.takahashi...9_fc-100dz.html

 

As a DL F9 owner, I am interested in a comparison between that & a DZ.

 

Daniel, thank you for your review. The DZ is tempting & only having a DL & TSA120 makes me feel less inclined to want one. TSA-102s on the pre-owned market are fairly rare at present, perhaps there will be more when DZs have been made longer. 


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#198 mikeDnight

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 02:22 PM

Great. I was heading to buy the 100DC (for intended use with AZ-GTi) because of significantly smaller weight in comparison to 100DZ and after reading Daniels review I was concerned about color fidelity. Thank you!

Sergey

I haven't had chance to use a DZ yet, but it might still be worth considering the DZ if you're looking for the icey purity of image that is so very desirable. I doubt you'd fail to be impressed by the DC/DF or the DL, but just may be the DZ will do something the others won't?  It will be close in terms of actual visual performance, but still I'm very curious.


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#199 Ihtegla Sar

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 02:24 PM

That states:

 

With the dew shield retracted and accessories removed, the total length is only 595 mm, easily carried on most commercial flights.

 

However, by my math, 595mm is 23.43 inches, which is actually too long to be carried on most commercial flights I have ever traveled on.  The limit is 22 inches (22 x 14 x 9 in to be precise) on the airlines I have flown on recently, including domestic US flights and international flights.

 

So, 23.43 inches is about two inches too long, since the case you are carrying it needs to be no more than 22 inches long.  The OTA needs to be less than 22 inches to fit in a 22 inch long case for safe travel.  You might be able to get away with a larger case.  I have seen people with oversized carry on luggage boarding my flights, but I have also seen people with oversized carry on bags be forced to check their oversized carry on bags, especially on a crowded flight.  

 

I would not want to risk being forced to check an oversized carry on, and that is a risk I would not take with my Tak.  So, for travel I would stick with the DF/DC.  The DF is only about 21 inches with the dew shield and accessories removed (shorter with the focuser removed) so it fits in a case.  A DC has a longer focuser but with the focuser removed the tube would be the same length as a DF.


Edited by Ihtegla Sar, 26 February 2020 - 02:25 PM.

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#200 m9x18

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 02:38 PM

http://www.takahashi...9_fc-100dz.html

 

As a DL F9 owner, I am interested in a comparison between that & a DZ.

 

Daniel, thank you for your review. The DZ is tempting & only having a DL & TSA120 makes me feel less inclined to want one. TSA-102s on the pre-owned market are fairly rare at present, perhaps there will be more when DZs have been made longer. 

I own the DL since I have an affinity for lunar, planetary and double star viewing. And in the interest of full disclosure, I bought my DL way before the DZ was ever announced. I have never conducted a side-by-side comparison. Also, I'm strictly a visual astronomer.

 

Now on with the show. Last time I was at Texas Nautical Repair in Houston, Chris Hysinger, the owner of LS&S told me that except for a little wider field of view inherent to the DZ, I would probably not notice or benefit much at the eyepiece between it and the DL. We did not discuss the warm, cool or neutral bias of either lens. Frankly, I didn't even think to ask. Anyway, he also said that the DZ was made to appeal to those more into astrophotography while the DL was created for those more into visual astronomy. Either scope however, is very capable of both endeavors. As for me, as mentioned, I'm visual so that worked out.

 

In the end (if there's such a thing as 'the end' when it comes to Takahashi), it's pretty much up to the buyer to decide whether the advantages (and they both have them) offered by either scope fits their viewing (and/or photographic), mounting and transportation needs. No matter which one is selected, the owner is sure to be very happy as long as those needs are met. I believe most, if not all, of my needs are met and I'm very happy with my DL. Still, the DZ is very enticing.  ; )


Edited by m9x18, 26 February 2020 - 02:41 PM.

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