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Saturn: Wexford, Ireland, very good seeing, July 13 2019

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#1 kevinbreen

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 05:38 AM

This nearly didn't happen.

I stupidly removed the red dot finder to change the battery and when I refitted it the calibration was a mile off. I couldn't even place the full moon on the sensor. Cue 70 minutes of panic trying this and that, focal reducer, DSLR, you name it. Finally got things under control by pinpointing a bulb down the end of the garden. Jupiter was a disappointment but by now it was late and Saturn was rising. Here's the best Saturn I've had the pleasure of capturing to date. Still a lot of data to process but the sun is shining and I'd heading out to the garden for breakfast. I'll post more later most likely.

 

I'm particularly chuffed with this image being that Saturn is only at 15 degrees elevation.... is that a hexagon ?

 

2019-07-13-2356_3-KB-L_lapl6_ap38_3.png


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#2 Kokatha man

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 05:52 AM

...about to shut down & saw your new posting Kevin!

 

That is a real beauty - & before one of the armchair critics gets in with anything lol.gif "sure it could do with a bit of colour correction" (easy-peasy) & more frames to lower the noise etc - but I think you have really excelled yourself here...a beauty & triumph over elevation so low..! waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif

 

If you have more than this one from the data perhaps it is time to WinJUPOS them together for a smoother outcome - but regardless this one is excellent! smile.gif

 

Without plenty of things I could do, here's a very quick "spit & polish" where you can more easily see the 2 moons you also captured. smile.gif

 

KevSat.png


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#3 Lacaille

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 06:31 AM

Wow Kevin, that's great for ANY elevation!
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#4 kevinbreen

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 06:51 AM

Thanks Mark, and thanks Darryl for spotting the moons! They're Dione and Tethys it turns out. I'm astonished that everything was dialed in to get this image. It's a personal best for Saturn, and even more remarkable because the intention had been to capture Jupiter only. Saturn is always an afterthought for me as it's so low over the horizon. After the panic of not being able to find anything I could relax and enjoy - 

 

https://youtu.be/ta3S-Onql6U



#5 BQ Octantis

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 07:19 AM

Excellent work, Kevin!…15˚ is clearly superior to 10˚.

 

Truth be told, when I went to shoot Jupiter at opposition, I picked it up through the eyepiece at 7˚ off the horizon. When I saw the three-colored morphing beast before me, I immediately went inside to wait for more elevation. As I walked inside, I wondered how the heck you were able to make images out such elevations!

 

BQ


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#6 kevinbreen

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 07:50 AM

Excellent work, Kevin!…15˚ is clearly superior to 10˚.

 

Truth be told, when I went to shoot Jupiter at opposition, I picked it up through the eyepiece at 7˚ off the horizon. When I saw the three-colored morphing beast before me, I immediately went inside to wait for more elevation. As I walked inside, I wondered how the heck you were able to make images out such elevations!

 

BQ

Thanks BQ, it's just a question of right-place-right-time for me. 10 degrees? Aren't things so much higher where you are?



#7 kevinbreen

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 07:58 AM

As I mentioned earlier, this is the reason I ventured outside last night (OK, I'm a danger to myself and others if Love Island happens to be on the telly, I just can't abide that inane BS, and it was on in two rooms so I was glad to get the hell away from that!).

 

The "disappointing Jupiter" and little Io about to cross over. Actually the quality graph is superb, so I must have just not had the focus spot-on, which is a shame. Here's 10,000 of 21,000 frames at f/19 (f/19 was for Saturn also).

 

Incidentally, I went from 6 minutes initially on Saturn to seven minutes and finally to eight minutes for the image at the top of this thread.

 

2019-07-13-2206_2-KB-L_lapl6_ap52_2.jpg


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#8 BQ Octantis

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 08:00 AM

Thanks BQ, it's just a question of right-place-right-time for me. 10 degrees? Aren't things so much higher where you are?

They're certainly higher on the Tropic of Capricorn…indeed, I just looked at Jupiter at zenith (unfortunately, the jet stream is back over 60 m/s, and it's a a blurry mess). I just remembered some of your posts on the challenges of shooting at 10˚…


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#9 RedLionNJ

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 09:55 AM

…indeed, I just looked at Jupiter at zenith 

How can I express extreme envy without it turning into jealousy? :(


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#10 RedLionNJ

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 10:01 AM

Well done, Kev!

 

My first thought on reading and seeing your top Saturn here was "do you have any more data you could combine to pump up the SNR? Maybe experiment a bit with Winjupos?" Measuring Saturn is so easy in WJP thanks to that lovely ring system. If you have any other data on Saturn at all from that night, please consider giving it a go.

 

Nights with seeing like that are very rare these days - we have to make the most of them.

 

Another thing you can do in Winjupos (if you get it to create a master image) is to tell it to create a polar projection (of the N pole).  That will CLEARLY show the hexagonal shape of the polar region these days and in conditions like you had.

 

And, oh - when I was first ramping-up in this lark, I used to label every successive better set of conditions "very good seeing".  Only once you've ONE TIME experienced truly good seeing somewhere, can you start to more objectively rank seeing.  I suspect you'll encounter substantially better at some time and then adjust expectations accordingly. But the problem is that, once you've had truly excellent seeing, you become almost obsessed with getting it again.

 

Don't let it drive you to drink, but don't let it keep you forever 'dry', either. Life is a balance!

 

Grant


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#11 kevinbreen

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 11:21 AM

Well done, Kev!

My first thought on reading and seeing your top Saturn here was "do you have any more data you could combine to pump up the SNR? Maybe experiment a bit with Winjupos?" Measuring Saturn is so easy in WJP thanks to that lovely ring system. If you have any other data on Saturn at all from that night, please consider giving it a go.

Nights with seeing like that are very rare these days - we have to make the most of them.

Another thing you can do in Winjupos (if you get it to create a master image) is to tell it to create a polar projection (of the N pole). That will CLEARLY show the hexagonal shape of the polar region these days and in conditions like you had.

And, oh - when I was first ramping-up in this lark, I used to label every successive better set of conditions "very good seeing". Only once you've ONE TIME experienced truly good seeing somewhere, can you start to more objectively rank seeing. I suspect you'll encounter substantially better at some time and then adjust expectations accordingly. But the problem is that, once you've had truly excellent seeing, you become almost obsessed with getting it again.

Don't let it drive you to drink, but don't let it keep you forever 'dry', either. Life is a balance!

Grant


Thanks Grant.

I’m truly ecstatic about this outcome, I had no expectation of anything like this given the elevation.
Re Winjupos, yes I have multiple captures not only from late last night but also from early this a.m. I fully intend utilising WJ’s functions but for now I’ll bide my time harvesting good captures when possible.
I’ll be in France end of the month for the annual wife’s-big-family-get-together thing, sadly without scope. As it will probably rain a lot (it always seems to rain on us en France), I may very well bring the laptop and try some Winju-posing there. I can also bring my DSLR and have a crack at planetary stuff using BYEOS.

Cheers for the drinking tip, as you can see in the video link I’m enjoying a wee tipple after the debacle with my red dot finder (I really need to get something more substantial to replace that gizmo). Mark (Lacaille) and I had a conversation about this actually a while back, from memory I think he bought some kind of rifle-sight thing, I must check that thing out again...

What do you use as a finderscope?
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#12 freddie

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 11:51 AM

 

 

 Actually the quality graph is superb, so I must have just not had the focus spot-on, which is a shame. Here's 10,000 of 21,000 frames at f/19 (f/19 was for Saturn also).

 

 

Not sure what you mean by this as the quality graph only compares frames in that particular capture and is not a measure of absolute quality. The quality graph alone can’t therefore be used to determine if the capture will produce a high or low quality final image.



#13 RedLionNJ

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 12:31 PM

Hi Kev,

 

I actually have TWO finders and rarely use either. One is a Meade 9x60 RACI, which I've had for at least ten years. The great thing about this one is that the apparent position of the planet/star in the field (relative to the cross hairs) doesn't change depending on the angle you hold your head/eye at. i.e. you don't have to be looking right down the optical path to get a good handle on where the object really is in relation to the cross-hairs.  Plus the 60mm objective is handy for pulling-in Uranus and Neptune.

 

My other finder is also a 60mm, but doesn't have cross-hairs and takes a regular 1.25-inch eyepiece. This can be swapped-out for a guidecam when I feel the urge to autoguide when using the main scope for deep-sky imaging.

 

Truth be told, if I'd done a good job of modeling my mount and haven't changed much on it, weight or balance-wise. the finders are completely irrelevant.  But remember this is a permanent set-up in a RoR observatory, an MX+ extremely well-aligned on an iron and concrete pier.  The southern aspect of the sky in particular is extremely well-modeled right now. I can put Jupiter or Saturn on the ASI290 chip at f/14 with just a slew command (not even closed-loop).

 

Enjoy France - I spent a long weekend near Limoges last fall. Awesomely relaxing.

 

Grant


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#14 aeroman4907

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 03:22 PM

Great job Kevin!  This will only make your addiction worse...


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#15 aeroman4907

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 03:24 PM

...about to shut down & saw your new posting Kevin!

 

That is a real beauty - & before one of the armchair critics gets in with anything lol.gif "sure it could do with a bit of colour correction" (easy-peasy) & more frames to lower the noise etc - but I think you have really excelled yourself here...a beauty & triumph over elevation so low..! waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif

 

If you have more than this one from the data perhaps it is time to WinJUPOS them together for a smoother outcome - but regardless this one is excellent! smile.gif

 

Without plenty of things I could do, here's a very quick "spit & polish" where you can more easily see the 2 moons you also captured. smile.gif

 

attachicon.gif KevSat.png

 

Spit and polish Darryl?  How did you pull the moon images that far off the noise floor?  There certainly has to be a lot of masking in that one!


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#16 kevinbreen

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 03:30 PM

Great job Kevin! This will only make your addiction worse...


Thanks Steve, sure I’m a hopeless case already.

#17 kevinbreen

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 03:34 PM

Spit and polish Darryl? How did you pull the moon images that far off the noise floor? There certainly has to be a lot of masking in that one!


Whatever Darryl did, I’m taking it.

I really need to get my finger out and learn how to do processing properly. I had NO IDEA there were moons there; well of course I knew they were there, but in my image? Nah.

GIMP is attractive because it’s freeware, and I’ve dabbled with it for drone work. I just wouldn’t know where to start. Actually come to think of it now, Darryl has a tutorial on processing which should be useful ...

Thanks for reminding me 🔭😁

#18 Kokatha man

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 03:58 PM

Spit and polish Darryl?  How did you pull the moon images that far off the noise floor?  There certainly has to be a lot of masking in that one!

..quick response before we head off on a 400km drive at 6:30am! :)

 

Yes, "spit & polish" - you can actually see the moons in Kev's image in the first post...making it dead easy-peasy. No "maskingconfused1.gif  whatsoever!

 

By creating a duplicate layer - or not - select each of the moons & raise their levels. A quick auto-clour in P/shop or whatever, fade it back a bit & very slight levels adjustment of the black-point, making sure not to remove the Crepe Ring & about 0.5pxl Gaussian Blur for noise amelioration...that's all. ;)



#19 Tom Glenn

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 05:39 PM

That's a nice image, Kevin, with good definition in the Cassini division.  Definitely a victory over 15 degrees elevation.  Nice job.  


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#20 Achernar

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 08:17 PM

Very good image, it is a little noisy, but it's very sharp and free of the artifacts I get when I push too hard with the wavelets. Persistence pays off.

 

Taras



#21 R Botero

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 01:45 AM

That is just incredible for your latitude Kevin :bow: :waytogo:
Roberto
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#22 BQ Octantis

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 05:28 AM

How can I express extreme envy without it turning into jealousy? frown.gif

LOL! I think the difference is simply the level of anger and revulsion.

 

If it's any consolation, seeing is rarely optimal at zenith for me. It's usually best at 40-60˚.

 

BQ


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#23 kevinbreen

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 08:14 AM

LOL! I think the difference is simply the level of anger and revulsion.

 

If it's any consolation, seeing is rarely optimal at zenith for me. It's usually best at 40-60˚.

 

BQ

I'd pull a muscle in my neck if I had to look up at that angle!



#24 Lacaille

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:15 AM

You need to start doing yoga to prepare yourself for the mid 2020s!

#25 BQ Octantis

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 02:45 AM

I'd pull a muscle in my neck if I had to look up at that angle!

You need to start doing yoga to prepare yourself for the mid 2020s!

 

I hate to agree with you, but that's actually why I bought one of those right-angle finderscopes…not a pulled muscle (or sore knee) since!




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