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First attempt at Winjupos Derotation

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#1 kevinbreen

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 07:52 AM

With immense thanks to Phileefan Mick, I took the plunge and tried de-rotating some recent Jupiter and Saturn images. Here are the results - I'm not too sure if the SNR is better (It must be, right?).

 

2019-07-07-2308_1-KB-L_lapl6_ap52_2 winj_2.jpg

 

2019-07-03-2327_7-KB-L_lapl6_ap17.png

 

In any case I'm happy to be able to add this process to my arsenal should good seeing return.


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#2 Lacaille

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:05 AM

Well done for having a go Kevin! I can't be sure if it has made a difference without a side by side comparison. But it is an important tool to have at your disposal. How did you find the process? A bit forbidding at first but gets easier, right? The Jupiter image may have a slight edge effect that can result from not getting the LD setting quite right.

Did you do any further sharpening or other processing on the synthesized images? Usually worth a try. The Jupiter could probably stand a bit of increased saturation.

Mark

Edited by Lacaille, 17 July 2019 - 08:06 AM.

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#3 kevinbreen

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:28 AM

Hi Mark

I didn’t post the “before” pics here in this post because I didn’t want to invite a discussion. But to answer your question I found it fairly painless. One glitch I encountered with Saturn was I had to rename each measured image after the first one because it said they already existed. Weird.
Whoever wrote Winjupos deserves a standing ovation.

#4 Sunspot

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:30 AM

Whoever wrote Winjupos deserves a standing ovation.

I totally agree, and for me the best part is that not only is the author constantly updating the software, but he is very open to user suggestions.


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#5 RedLionNJ

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 02:18 PM

I totally agree, and for me the best part is that not only is the author constantly updating the software, but he is very open to user suggestions.

I second this - Grischa has always been very open to user input - he has incorporated a couple of my suggestions over the years (and rejected a couple, too - with good explanations as to why).

 

Same can be said for Chris, Robin, Emil and Torsten (esp Torsten, as we had some rocky times in the early ASI days).  Wonderful community.



#6 Tulloch

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:04 PM

Well done Kevin, they look great.

 

I've been using WinJupos for a while now to remove the altaz field rotation from my videos and it really seems to work well, even over my usual 8 minute captures for Jupiter and Saturn. It does take a while to de-rotate the videos, but I think it's a small price to pay after spending all that time setting up the scope, aligning it, finding best focus, etc.

 

It certainly is a powerful program, but can be a steep learning curve at first. I'm still having problems with the still image derotation/stacking step, but maybe that's more to do with my images and what I'm trying to do with them than the program itself.

 

Andrew


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#7 roelb

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:29 PM

Well done Kevin, they look great.

 

I've been using WinJupos for a while now to remove the altaz field rotation from my videos and it really seems to work well, even over my usual 8 minute captures for Jupiter and Saturn. It does take a while to de-rotate the videos, but I think it's a small price to pay after spending all that time setting up the scope, aligning it, finding best focus, etc.

 

It certainly is a powerful program, but can be a steep learning curve at first. I'm still having problems with the still image derotation/stacking step, but maybe that's more to do with my images and what I'm trying to do with them than the program itself.

 

Andrew

When I use WinJUPOS to de-rotate a color ser file for ALT/AZ derotation the output ser files (blue, green, red) are all mono.

I'm I doing something wrong?



#8 Tulloch

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:44 PM

When I use WinJUPOS to de-rotate a color ser file for ALT/AZ derotation the output ser files (blue, green, red) are all mono.

I'm I doing something wrong?

Umm, I'm not sure what's going on there. I take my raw video and generate a reduced ROI colour avi through PIPP, then use the "Derotation of video streams" tool in WinJupos to perform the field derotation (and planetary derotation as a bonus). WJ outputs a colour ser file with the derotated video which I throw into AS!3 to stack. The derotation screen is below, is this the tool you are using?

 

Andrew

Attached Thumbnails

  • WinJupos de-rotation.JPG


#9 Achernar

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:55 PM

Definite improvement in the quality of your images, I got WinJupos too but haven't started to get into learning how to use it yet. Very good work!

Taras



#10 roelb

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 06:59 PM

Yes that is de tool I use in WinJUPOS. The only difference I see is that you put in a AVI file instead of a SER. I'll convert the color SER to a AVI and try again.

#11 Kokatha man

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:04 PM

A good effort Kev...I'm certain you'll refine it & then you'll be able to employ it on Mars next year where elevation will be better also! waytogo.gif


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#12 kevinbreen

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 03:10 AM

A good effort Kev...I'm certain you'll refine it & then you'll be able to employ it on Mars next year where elevation will be better also! waytogo.gif


That’s the plan alright Darryl.
This was just a proof of concept, ie, can I do this without screwing up? Answer: yes. I love the way the auto detection works for Jupiter, that is pretty amazing really.

#13 TareqPhoto

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 12:35 PM

I want to use Winjupos too, i tried it few times and failed, only one time did it work but the i hated to use it again, i only shoot with SER format, also does Winjupos needs to use PIPP for preparation something first?

 

I just capture and directly to Autostakkert ans then Registax and final Photoshop, didn't imagine i must use Winjupos or PIPP as well.



#14 kevinbreen

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 12:48 PM

I want to use Winjupos too, i tried it few times and failed, only one time did it work but the i hated to use it again, i only shoot with SER format, also does Winjupos needs to use PIPP for preparation something first?

I just capture and directly to Autostakkert ans then Registax and final Photoshop, didn't imagine i must use Winjupos or PIPP as well.


I captured in avi.
Autostakkert, fitswork, Registax then winjupos.
No pipp

#15 TareqPhoto

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 01:42 PM

I captured in avi.
Autostakkert, fitswork, Registax then winjupos.
No pipp

But i capture in SER and i like to use this format?



#16 kevinbreen

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 01:48 PM

But i capture in SER and i like to use this format?


Sorry

I have no experience with SER, sir!
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#17 TareqPhoto

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 01:51 PM

Sorry

I have no experience with SER, sir!

Ok, sometimes i will give AVI a try too, in the past i was using AVI more, but then i moved to SER and also when i started to use Firecapure i stayed with SER format, so Winjupos isn't working with SER?



#18 kevinbreen

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 01:57 PM

Ok, sometimes i will give AVI a try too, in the past i was using AVI more, but then i moved to SER and also when i started to use Firecapure i stayed with SER format, so Winjupos isn't working with SER?


I have no idea.
Why don’t you use avi? They’re cheaper...

#19 TareqPhoto

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 02:00 PM

I have no idea.
Why don’t you use avi? They’re cheaper...

AVI isn't cheaper, you should say easier or smaller or even faster whatever, SER is free anyway, but i feel like SER is similar to RAW in photos while AVI is like TIFF or PNG or even JPEG, but i will use both not a problem.



#20 Peregrinatum

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 06:45 PM

What I still haven't quite figured out with Winjupos is how to figure out the reference times:

 

u1PDzZ5.jpg

 

rfjkn6z.jpg



#21 TareqPhoto

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 06:49 PM

What I still haven't quite figured out with Winjupos is how to figure out the reference times:

 

u1PDzZ5.jpg

 

rfjkn6z.jpg

This is also another issue when i watched a tutorial video of this software, bottom line is, i feel like learning to use Winjupos will take me ages and i may not imaging during that time only because i have a nightmare to make Winjupos works for me or forcing myself to use AVI or to find out how to make Winjupos working without any issues and knowing all the settings needed.



#22 Kokatha man

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 07:24 PM

What I still haven't quite figured out with Winjupos is how to figure out the reference times:

 

I know you have my tutorial at the very least because you asked for it recently P..!

 

I can only hope that you're not someone who is "reading challenged."

 

Quote: (from my tute) <"First find out the mid-point time of each single channel’s processed file - or that of a colour camera's avi (FireCapture's text files make this easy!) - make sure this value is Universal Time, & also check that the day/date you enter is also UT: the date can change over an imaging session if you are up half the night.....">

 

Just to be completely clear to anyone else - this is for derotating image stacks, not avi's: this is made abundantly clear right at the very start! (I have no idea why anyone favours the derotation of avi's in any circumstances btw...the results are not better...& just as in attempting (for example) 3 minute captures for each of the channels with the method I outline for mono cameras, longer video derotations run into the same problem - variability in seeing!)

 

If you are using a colour camera & set FireCapture up "normally" the file name of each avi captured will be the mid-point of that capture...it is also detailed in the FC .txt file that is created with every avi etc.....the same for mono captures for each & every channel's capture!

 

This is the timestamp you place in the image you first circled above, along with latitude & longitude of where you took the captures, as well as date. (all UT)

 

The 2nd image you've posted with the red circle around it is what WinJUPOS generates as the "composite" derotated stacks' timestamp, generated from each of the stacks/avi's/captures you have measured & entered into that line that reads "502" emboldened with red in the 2nd image you posted above! (put another way, WJ's timestamp it gives to the derotated image it creates...)

 

Very straight-forward tbh - as I've said it could do with a bit of stream-lining etc but there's never enough time & if you read it thoroughly it has everything in it. wink.gif


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#23 Peregrinatum

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 08:14 PM

I know you have my tutorial at the very least because you asked for it recently P..!

 

I can only hope that you're not someone who is "reading challenged."

 

Quote: (from my tute) <"First find out the mid-point time of each single channel’s processed file - or that of a colour camera's avi (FireCapture's text files make this easy!) - make sure this value is Universal Time, & also check that the day/date you enter is also UT: the date can change over an imaging session if you are up half the night.....">

 

Just to be completely clear to anyone else - this is for derotating image stacks, not avi's: this is made abundantly clear right at the very start! (I have no idea why anyone favours the derotation of avi's in any circumstances btw...the results are not better...& just as in attempting (for example) 3 minute captures for each of the channels with the method I outline for mono cameras, longer video derotations run into the same problem - variability in seeing!)

 

If you are using a colour camera & set FireCapture up "normally" the file name of each avi captured will be the mid-point of that capture...it is also detailed in the FC .txt file that is created with every avi etc.....the same for mono captures for each & every channel's capture!

 

This is the timestamp you place in the image you first circled above, along with latitude & longitude of where you took the captures, as well as date. (all UT)

 

The 2nd image you've posted with the red circle around it is what WinJUPOS generates as the "composite" derotated stacks' timestamp, generated from each of the stacks/avi's/captures you have measured & entered into that line that reads "502" emboldened with red in the 2nd image you posted above! (put another way, WJ's timestamp it gives to the derotated image it creates...)

 

Very straight-forward tbh - as I've said it could do with a bit of stream-lining etc but there's never enough time & if you read it thoroughly it has everything in it. wink.gif

Hope abated, I'm challenged!  lol.gif

 

Yes I do have your tute, thanks again, just wanted clear up a few things...


Edited by Peregrinatum, 19 July 2019 - 08:15 PM.

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#24 Tulloch

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 09:45 PM

I know you have my tutorial at the very least because you asked for it recently P..!

 

I can only hope that you're not someone who is "reading challenged."

 

Quote: (from my tute) <"First find out the mid-point time of each single channel’s processed file - or that of a colour camera's avi (FireCapture's text files make this easy!) - make sure this value is Universal Time, & also check that the day/date you enter is also UT: the date can change over an imaging session if you are up half the night.....">

 

Just to be completely clear to anyone else - this is for derotating image stacks, not avi's: this is made abundantly clear right at the very start! (I have no idea why anyone favours the derotation of avi's in any circumstances btw...the results are not better...& just as in attempting (for example) 3 minute captures for each of the channels with the method I outline for mono cameras, longer video derotations run into the same problem - variability in seeing!)

 

I'm one of of those who derotate my avi's blush.gif and it seems to work well for me. If you know a better method for me then I'm all ears. 

 

Since I'm on an alt/az mount, field rotation is an issue for me during captures. Additionally I can only capture at 20 fps max, so in order to get a reasonable number of frames for stacking it takes me a bit over 8 minutes to get 10,000 frames. I use WJ's derotate video feature (with the alt/az mode ticked) to remove the field rotation from my videos. As the planets approach the zenith, field rotation can be huge. As a bonus, it also removes the planetary rotation, but that's not my main reason for doing it this way.

 

While I could take shorter videos and stack less frames in AS!3 before combining the images in WJ via your method, I think the advantages of derotating the avi in WJ and stacking more frames in AS!3 outweigh the disadvantages of variable seeing. 

 

Now, I fully understand that I could fix this by buying a better, faster, dedicated planetary camera and buying a new scope on an equatorial mount, but I'm enjoying pushing my DSLR to its limits and love the ease of setting up and aligning the alt/az mount. 

 

Interested in your thoughts..

 

Thanks, Andrew.



#25 Kokatha man

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 10:12 PM

Andrew, in your circumstances that's entirely reasonable. ;)

 

Much of my commentary is predicated upon the use of a dedicated planetary camera...& principally with an EQ mount.

 

There are a couple of folks whom I haven't seen here for a while who capture excellent planetary images with a simple "push-to" dobsonian mount...I should have left out the "in any circumstances" tbh but for larger EQ mounted scopes & dedicated cameras I think my somewhat "throwaway" comments are relevant - but I'm happy to admit there are said provisos to it! flowerred.gif

 

As far as seeing variations & focus are concerned these are very real & that isn't something of concern to only those with larger apertures etc trying to eke out the greatest resolution: recently someone using an analogous method to your own gear posted a small set of images which although tiny were all clearly out of focus...I have no idea whether they were the result of a "set & forget" type of approach, or to be fair a limitation of the particular methodology employed or even some other reason: however, for us there are 4 major aspects to planetary imaging & they are of roughly equal importance: seeing, temperature equilibrium, collimation & focus. (although without the first & to a certain extent the 2nd the other 2 are somewhat redundant, but with those, the last 2 are critical also!

 

I recently posted one of Pat's notepad records of just how much focus alters over a single session - we are somewhat obsessive to the point of comical at times but it is all part of our process - apologies if it sounded a bit ott &/or dismissive, as said your points do have validity for your approach. :)

 

ps: even though the EQ8 is a relatively heavy EQ mount, since I made the pier for it it would have to rank as extremely easy to set up...I'd suggest no more difficult that an Alt/Az tbh...but I'm not trying to sell you anything you don't need..! :lol:


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