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APM MS 16 x 70 ED Apo Binoculars vs Oberwerk 15x70mm Ultra's

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#1 aa6ww



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Posted 17 July 2019 - 10:48 AM

I wonder if anyone has any experience with these APM 16x70ED binoculars, and if so, how would they compare to the Oberwerk 15x70mm Ultra's, which are the same as the AP bino's or the Orion Resolux bino's.

I've had a pair of the Oberwerk 15x70 Ultra's and they were absolutely excellent binoculars. At the time I tried to use them as hand holdable binoculars which are much too heavy for that, so I sold them. I remember how excellent the views were however.
It would be hard for me to imagine another pair of 15x70's or similar size that was superior to these, but maybe the APM 16x70 ED's would have to be better otherwise, why would they cost so much more.

I'm sure many out here have experienced the Ultra series from Oberwerks, or the clones from AP and Orion.

Does anyone have any first hand knowledge on how these two would compare?

Thanks for any into on this.

..Ralph in Sac

#2 Rich V.

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:25 AM

If you thought the Resolux binos were excellent you'll really like the MS EDs. 


It's been a while since I compared a Resolux with my Fuji FMTs but the views were similar in center sharpness and contrast but the FMTs were noticeably sharper to the edge; a flatter field.  Both binos have pretty short eye relief; the Resolux with maybe a couple of mms more than the FMTs at about 11mm effective.


The APM MS EDs are a "next generation" step up from the Resolux; new generation optical design with long eye relief (18.5mm effective), a field flattener incorporated as well as the ED doublet design for much better CA control.   If you choose to spend the extra dollars, I doubt you'll regret getting the APMs over the Resolux.


I have both APM ED and Fuji 16x70s and the Fujis sit on the shelf (just like a Resolux would) as the APMs are clearly more comfortable and enjoyable to use for me.



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#3 aa6ww



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Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:17 PM

I'm about to order a set of 20x80 APM ED Binoculars. I've been using my 11x70 light weights with a friend who has 15x70's and the lighter straight through's are a welcome change, since in the past Ive been use to 25x100's and larger.

I considered the 25x100's but the 20x80's seem light by comparison and plenty of aperture for what I need them for, for casual back yard observing and terrestrial observing.

I read there was a 25x80ED's but I cant find them anywhere. That would be nice also.

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#4 DeanD


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Posted 17 July 2019 - 11:45 PM

Hi Ralph,


Good luck with the new binos: they sound great. Just a comment on hand-holding though: I think you will find it is not just the weight of the bino that is the problem for hand-holding, but the magnification. Even if you could lift and hold them as steady as possible, the view will still jump noticeably with your heart-beat at basically any magnification above 7x.


If you are getting 20x binos you will need to mount them at least on a photo tripod if you want any sort of steady view. Ideally a parallelogram mount would be best.


All the best,



#5 tmichaelbanks


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Posted 18 July 2019 - 09:54 AM

Hi Ralph,


Which APM 20x80 ED binos did you order?


The APM Germani website has a new 20x80 triplet "ED" at a very attractive price (about 300 Euros):

"APM 20x80 ED Binoculars with Triplet Lenses and Tripod Adapter"



This item does not appear to be available until July 31, and is not on the OSO website in the U.S.


That's considerably less expensive than the APM 20x80 ED model currently offered, or even the 20x80 non-ED.  There's no eye relief or waterproof specs mentioned though.

#6 Skittersqueek


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Posted 18 July 2019 - 11:38 AM

I have the Ultra 15x70's and absolutely love them, I have not looked through APM's but like you said I couldn't fathom them being that much better for the $$$. Parallelograms are an absolute and best way to enjoy these types of binos.




Aaron D.

#7 aa6ww



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Posted 18 July 2019 - 03:43 PM

I cant imagine others being noticeability better then the Ultra's also but maybe they are?

Im now curious about these new 20x80 triplets for less then half the price of the 20x80ED's so I should start a new thread on them and see what people know. Its a smart group out here on every subject.


#8 ButterFly


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Posted 24 July 2019 - 08:44 AM

The benefit of ED glass to me is twofold.  The first is the lack of color shifting.  The second is the extended hyperfocal distance - the depth of field over which focus remains "acceptable" - becuase better focus can be acheived due to lack of shifting.


Nighttime only shouldn't make much of a difference for either on most targets.  15x in low light is not going to yield noticable color except on very bright objects.


I have tried Orion and Celestron 70mms and own the APM 16x70 EDs.  There is color on the non-EDs - 15x is rather demanding on big, short focal length objectives in bright light.  The APMs are just wonderful during the daytime.  I eagle watch with them over the Hudson.  The Palisades are 3/4 mi straight across the river and extend out to 14 mi near the Tappan Zee bridge.  I usually focus about 5 mi away and never touch the focus again (until some nice ducks pass by a few hundred feet away).  If you plan to make any daytime use, I would strongly recommend the APMs.


Oberwerk does it's own thing though, so I wouldn't really compare Orion/Celestron to them.  I have Oberwerk 25x100s strictly for nighttime use.  They are amazing at what they do, but there is color on the edges of the moon and Jupiter.  They are just too big for daytime use for me.


I like to boost with other binoculars as well (another benefit of mounting).  The APM can handle boosting with 8x42s (it gets dim, but NO color shifting), but the Oberwerk gets just 2.1x.

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