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APM's new 20x80 ED Binoculars with Triplet Lenses out July 31st, 2019

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#1 aa6ww

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 03:48 PM

I was just told in another thread that these will be a newly released pair of binoculars coming out in less then two weeks. New APM 20x80 ED Binoculars with Triplet Lenses. The best news, is they are just over $300 new, less then half the price of their current 20x80ED binoculars.
From this attached listing and photo, it looks like a center focus design.

https://www.apm-tele...-tripod-adapter

I was just about to purchase the 20x80ED's but now I have to wait. I hope its true!!

Anyone have any thoughts or knowledge on these new binoculars or any comments or speculations on these?

...Ralph

#2 Riccardo_italy

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 04:36 PM

They are not the MS series...



#3 B 26354

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 04:41 PM

I'm guessing  that these are similar -- if not basically identical -- to the "triplet objective" Oberwerk 20x80mm Deluxe IIIs, which I own. The objective lenses in these are not real "triplets". They are doublets, and there is a correcting-lens placed further back in the optical tubes.

 

My Oberwerks are are quite good... and I would assume that these APMs are, as well. But I would strongly advise you to contact Marcus directly at APM, and ask him to compare the performance of these new ones with the $986 APM MS 20x80 ED APOs which you were considering, as well as the $728 APM MS 20x80 Binos.



#4 aa6ww

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 04:43 PM

Does that even mater, since MS just means they are light weight magnesium and these are list as 100 grams lighter then the 20x80ED MS series binoculars.

...Ralph

#5 SMark

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 04:49 PM

Does that even mater, since MS just means they are light weight magnesium and these are list as 100 grams lighter then the 20x80ED MS series binoculars.

...Ralph

But it doesn't necessarily mean that all else remains the same. Different models... different features... different prices... different performances. I wouldn't assume anything. Though it's often correct to assume that you will get what you pay for.


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#6 aa6ww

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 05:10 PM

Outdoor sports optics sells the 20x80ED APM binoculars for $780.00.

I'm fascinated how much better optics keeps getting and prices keep getting reduced in the process.

A third corrector lens sounds like a very smart idea since it sounds like any ED binoculars are excellent optically already.

Regardless, less then $350.00 for a fine pair of 20x 80mm ED binoculars sounds like a smokin' deal!!

..kinda fun to speculate!

Maybe this technology will be passed down to their larger 100mm and 120mm designs at those same reductions in price.

...Ralph


I'm guessing  that these are similar -- if not basically identical -- to the "triplet objective" Oberwerk 20x80mm Deluxe IIIs, which I own. The objective lenses in these are not real "triplets". They are doublets, and there is a correcting-lens placed further back in the optical tubes.
 
My Oberwerks are are quite good... and I would assume that these APMs are, as well. But I would strongly advise you to contact Marcus directly at APM, and ask him to compare the performance of these new ones with the $986 APM MS 20x80 ED APOs which you were considering, as well as the $728 APM MS 20x80 Binos.



#7 aa6ww

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 05:14 PM

The Oberwerks 20x80mm Deluxe IIIs look awesome! I much prefer the mounting post stretching the full length of the binos. Im a big fan of Oberwerks and supporting their products. Some of the Amazon reviews are very wishy washy however. Thank you for this information!! Time will tell..

...Ralph

 

I'm guessing  that these are similar -- if not basically identical -- to the "triplet objective" Oberwerk 20x80mm Deluxe IIIs, which I own. The objective lenses in these are not real "triplets". They are doublets, and there is a correcting-lens placed further back in the optical tubes.
 
My Oberwerks are are quite good... and I would assume that these APMs are, as well. But I would strongly advise you to contact Marcus directly at APM, and ask him to compare the performance of these new ones with the $986 APM MS 20x80 ED APOs which you were considering, as well as the $728 APM MS 20x80 Binos.


Edited by aa6ww, 18 July 2019 - 05:24 PM.


#8 Rich V.

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 05:19 PM

I'm guessing  that these are similar -- if not basically identical -- to the "triplet objective" Oberwerk 20x80mm Deluxe IIIs, which I own. The objective lenses in these are not real "triplets". They are doublets, and there is a correcting-lens placed further back in the optical tubes.

 

My Oberwerks are are quite good... and I would assume that these APMs are, as well. But I would strongly advise you to contact Marcus directly at APM, and ask him to compare the performance of these new ones with the $986 APM MS 20x80 ED APOs which you were considering, as well as the $728 APM MS 20x80 Binos.

These new APMs appear to be the same bino as the Orion GiantView ED 20x80 offeringf, not the Obie Dlx III:

 

https://www.telescop...60/p/130269.uts

 

Certainly not the same as an MS ED but if you're looking to compromise a bit and save some money they may be right up your alley.

 

Rich



#9 aa6ww

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 05:31 PM

Uh oh... Orion!!! That was the death blow Rich. The dagger in the heart. The Orion body is not the same as the Oberwerks, so they aren't the same ones.

I'm glad I asked. You guys are all very knowledgeable.


Thanks!!


...Ralph



 

These new APMs appear to be the same bino as the Orion GiantView ED 20x80 offeringf, not the Obie Dlx III:
 
https://www.telescop...60/p/130269.uts
 
Certainly not the same as an MS ED but if you're looking to compromise a bit and save some money they may be right up your alley.
 
Rich


Edited by aa6ww, 18 July 2019 - 05:44 PM.


#10 B 26354

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 05:41 PM

These new APMs appear to be the same bino as the Orion GiantView ED 20x80 offeringf, not the Obie Dlx III:

 

https://www.telescop...60/p/130269.uts

 

Certainly not the same as an MS ED but if you're looking to compromise a bit and save some money they may be right up your alley.

 

Rich

I agree... they appear to be identical. Odd that neither the Orion ad nor the video mention them being a "triplet" design. Probably worth a phone call.



#11 aa6ww

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 07:25 PM

They aren't even close to looking the same. How can you both claim to critique binocular optics if you cant even notice these completely different body styles. Orion doesn't even claim theirs are triplets. That's a huge selling point for marketing.
This sounds like "if it cost more, it has to be better" mentality going on here.

Nice try but they aren't even close.

...Ralph


I agree... they appear to be identical. Odd that neither the Orion ad nor the video mention them being a "triplet" design. Probably worth a phone call.



#12 Rich V.

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 07:59 PM

They aren't even close to looking the same. How can you both claim to critique binocular optics if you cant even notice these completely different body styles. Orion doesn't even claim theirs are triplets. That's a huge selling point for marketing.
This sounds like "if it cost more, it has to be better" mentality going on here.

Nice try but they aren't even close.

...Ralph

 

confused1.gif   Are we looking at the same photos?  I'm referring the new, inexpensive APM ED and the Orion GiantView ED; looked at them carefully and don't see any difference in outward appearance at all.  Focuser, hinge assy, eyepieces, knurled diopter tab and strap attachments all the same. Bodies are the same except for the badging.  Can't say if there are differences inside that body and the specs don't help.  Prices are comparable.  

 

Clearly the Obie Dlx III is a different animal, though.



#13 Rich V.

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:15 PM

Here's what I'm looking at...

 

https://www.apm-tele...-tripod-adapter

-APM only provides one photo...

 

https://www.telescop...0/p/130269.uts 

Attached Thumbnails

  • NP-APM-ED80.jpg
  • Orion.jpg


#14 B 26354

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 12:33 AM

@ aa6ww... Rich V's post #13 is exactly the comparison to which I was referring in my post #10. It's obvious that the APM and the Orion are structurally the same binocular.

 

In my answer to your post #1... in my post #3, I was referring to the optical layout, when I said that "I'm guessing  that these are similar -- if not basically identical -- to the "triplet objective" Oberwerk 20x80mm Deluxe IIIs, which I own." Structurally, the APMs are obviously different than the Oberwerk Deluxe IIIs.

 

Again, since the Orion ad makes no mention of them having "triplet" optics, I would strongly advise having conversations with both Orion and APM about this before making a purchase.


Edited by B 26354, 19 July 2019 - 12:38 AM.


#15 FlanaganV

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 06:55 AM

I asked APM about the differences between the two models. This is the Markus response:

"The MS is high end, the other one low end mechanics.

 

The MS is like Fujinon and better, overall much better optics and mechanics"

 

Not much information..., It would be great if somebody has tried both. This 'new triplet' model is below 300€ in Europe, too good to be true for a 20x80ED...



#16 tmichaelbanks

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 07:22 AM

That was me who mentioned the new APM 20x80s to Ralph.  I'd been thinking about 80/100mm binos lately and was poking around the APM website yesterday and saw the inexpensive 20x80s.  sorry if it was a false alarm but I was definitely drawn in by the APM brand.

 

After a close look at the two photos above, it sure does look like the Orion and APM units are very similar in outward construction.  Even the "brand tag" on the left barrel by the prism is present but blank on the APMs and the prism covers are blank on the Orions.

 

There is another thread in this forum that has a short review of one of the Orion ED models and from what I remember the optics were decent but the construction left a lot to be desired.  On the other hand, the Orion specs state that they are waterproof and have 18mm of ER, but the APM specs don't mention those.

 

I think a call or email directly to Markus is a very great idea.  When I was looking previously at the 28x110s APM offers he confirmed that they were identical to the BA8 series models marketed elsewhere.

 

Oberwerk's 20x80 model is close in price ($350) and it comes with a hard case and Kevin's top-shelf QC and support.  The Obies are a little heavier than the Orions (7 lbs. vs. 5.7) but I would guess that is due to more rugged construction.



#17 B 26354

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 09:55 AM

Oberwerk's 20x80 model is close in price ($350) and it comes with a hard case and Kevin's top-shelf QC and support.  The Obies are a little heavier than the Orions (7 lbs. vs. 5.7) but I would guess that is due to more rugged construction.

I'll definitely concur with this. I've had my Oby Deluxe IIIs for almost two years, and I love them. As pointed out, they are very solidly constructed, and as such, they are heavy. I have mine on one of the Oberwerk wooden tripods, with the 21" Carbon-Fiber Elevator and the Oberwerk 5000 Head... and it is an amazingly solid combination.

 

Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe III.jpg

 

Regarding Kevin's level of support... the first pair of Deluxe IIIs that I received were horribly out of collimation... more than likely from rough handling during shipment from the east coast to California. Kevin arranged for their return, and after the arrival of a new shipment from his supplier, he personally star-tested each one, and sent me the best of the batch. They are excellent... and I always have them set up next to whatever scope system I'm using.

 

Are they as edge-to-edge sharp as the ~$2170 APM 82 mm 45° ED-APO Binocular with 1.25" Eyepiece Holder?:

 

https://www.apm-tele...ece-holder.html

 

...or the ~$3800 Docter Aspectem 80/500 ED 20-50x Vario?:

 

https://www.apm-tele...-binocular.html

 

Highly unlikely.  grin.gif

 

But they are sharp and free of flare out to about 60% of the FOV... which in this price range, is excellent.


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