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PrimaLuceLab Eagle Review

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#51 Delta608

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 07:29 AM

Can someone please tell me why I should buy an Eagle 3 over say, an industrial NUC with all the trimmings. I’m in a complete rut and can’t make a decision. The price difference is smaller than you’d think when you upgrade the NUC and add in accessories.

I have the Pl plus system so it would fit perfectly. But forgetting that, what’s the advantage? Many rave about it while others have had dropouts and rebooting problems.

I’m open minded on this one. Someone sell me one way or another.....please.

Happy Holidays!

Simon

 

  We cant...Some think its the best since sliced bread, others dont...The faults, my opinion only...You dont own the software...It is made to run your scope, period...So no upgrading as it works as it suppose to in its present state...Any software issues, its off to Italy for repair...and its VERY proprietary...It has occasional wifi dropouts, but what windows machine doesn't...As far as cable management, none compare..Did I mention very proprietary...Just re-read this thread..It does what its advertised to do and very good at it, AS IS, to run your scope and buy Prima cabling ect..!
 



#52 SimonIRE

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 07:43 AM

We cant...Some think its the best since sliced bread, others dont...The faults, my opinion only...You dont own the software...It is made to run your scope, period...So no upgrading as it works as it suppose to in its present state...Any software issues, its off to Italy for repair...and its VERY proprietary...It has occasional wifi dropouts, but what windows machine doesn't...As far as cable management, none compare..Did I mention very proprietary...Just re-read this thread..It does what its advertised to do and very good at it, AS IS, to run your scope and buy Prima cabling ect..!


Ok...but does it really do what it says on the tin RELIABLY...
That’s the primary question. Also, if drivers for kit are updated, are you stuck, unable to update the Eagle to account for this....

#53 SimonIRE

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 08:01 AM

The other thing is how robust is it?

If this sits in a permanent remote observatory how well will it fare from 0-35 degrees Celsius and with humidity. As mentioned, an industrial NUC can handle all of that no problem. Against the NUC is the cable management aspect

#54 AlexTardif

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 10:33 AM

Also, if drivers for kit are updated, are you stuck, unable to update the Eagle to account for this....

In the last post on the page 2 there was a question I posted recently regarding driver updates, etc...

 

Long story short, I have an Eagle2 which came loaded with Win 10 Enterprise LTSB 2015 build.  In theory LTSB is a great option for astro machine because it's not as bloated as the standard 10 Pro and you don't have to deal with pesky OS updates all the time.  In practice it proved to be a dud recently: that version of Win 10, which is supposed to be good for 10 years, is now too old to accept Microsoft's own .NET platform updates (typical Microsoft nonsense...).  As a result, I couldn't install a driver for my new dome (NexDome) which relies on a more recent .NET update.  So, I was completely stuck.

 

I've reached out to PrimaLuce several times and it was like pulling teeth - slow (over 2 weeks in one case), incomplete answers.  I got 3 messages after I asked how long, how much it would cost to update to new Win and I still couldn't get a straight answer... was told - it would take some time, and it would cost extra.  No specifics whatsoever.  And of course it would require shipping the PC to Italy at my own expense both ways.

 

I decided to just do my own upgrade and luckily was able to just upload the latest Win 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019 over the original OS without a problem.  Now - I happen to have access to MS volume licensing through my employer, which is how I was able to obtain LTSC edition - I couldn't find any way to buy it directly from MS.  It was still ridiculously expensive - $325, but I figured it would cost at least that much to do it through PrimaLuce in addition to hassling with their support (which again, has sucked recently) and shipping PC, etc.

 

Other than that, the PC seems to work exactly as advertised.  Even given the hassle, I would still recommend it as a clean solution for software and power management.


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#55 Delta608

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Posted 25 December 2019 - 10:42 AM

Ok...but does it really do what it says on the tin RELIABLY...
That’s the primary question. Also, if drivers for kit are updated, are you stuck, unable to update the Eagle to account for this....

Again it does work reliably.....pay heed to what Alex had gone thru and remember its very proprietary..If you want it all to fit, looking nice...Your gonna need their rings as well...There is a ton of Youtube's comparing a NUC  and Eagle..

 

*BTW they do not want you dating drivers....It works out of the box and that's the way THEY want it to stay...That's why you don't have the license to change things...


Edited by Delta608, 25 December 2019 - 10:47 AM.


#56 M Milligan

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 07:24 PM

Does anyone have an opinion on this question that never received an answer?

 

"Which version of the Eagle3 would you recommend?  Choices are:  Eagle 3, Eagle3 Q, Eagle S, and Eagle3 Pro.  Is the basic version adequate or do you really need the Pro version or middle range versions?  The only software I'd have running all night would be Sequence Generator Pro, PhD2, Cartes du Ciel/Stellarium, and EQMod.  I don't need a lot of storage, since my images total less than 10GB in one night and I'd offload them the next day to free up space.  Just wondering what the better processors would help with.  Thanks."



#57 Delta608

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 07:37 PM

Not knowing anything else...Eagle 3s ......or a Laptop and a hub or a Nuc..or a Pegasus V2.....



#58 ZL4PLM

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:22 PM

Again it does work reliably.....pay heed to what Alex had gone thru and remember its very proprietary..If you want it all to fit, looking nice...Your gonna need their rings as well...There is a ton of Youtube's comparing a NUC  and Eagle..

 

*BTW they do not want you dating drivers....It works out of the box and that's the way THEY want it to stay...That's why you don't have the license to change things...

 

http://forum.mainseq...2-and-3/11451/2

 

this is a supported approach from Primaluce after discussion with them over the break. 

 

your suggestion THEY don't want you to change the drivers is nonsense - it was sold as an IOT device requiring no OS updates.

Sadly thats ironic thanks to MS :) 



#59 ZL4PLM

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:24 PM

Does anyone have an opinion on this question that never received an answer?

 

"Which version of the Eagle3 would you recommend?  Choices are:  Eagle 3, Eagle3 Q, Eagle S, and Eagle3 Pro.  Is the basic version adequate or do you really need the Pro version or middle range versions?  The only software I'd have running all night would be Sequence Generator Pro, PhD2, Cartes du Ciel/Stellarium, and EQMod.  I don't need a lot of storage, since my images total less than 10GB in one night and I'd offload them the next day to free up space.  Just wondering what the better processors would help with.  Thanks."

I have an Eagle 2 which is an I5 and is fine

 

the I3 core Eagle 3 is faster - both are overkill for SGP 

 

big USB3 stick now and you don't need masses of disk space - the ram can be upgraded if you find its not enough (i like 8gb min for win10 )

 

I don't run heavy planetarium software remote - so mine works fine - the basic or mid range would do well 


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#60 M Milligan

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:44 AM

Thanks @ZL4PLM. FYI: All Eagle models are 10% off right now.

 

I'm trying to decide between the Celeron-based Eagle 3 and the latest-generation I3-based Eagle 3s. I would upgrade the RAM and the SSD no problem.

 

I'm going to pull the trigger today or tomorrow, so my last questions are:

 

1. You're comfortable the Eagle Celeron (after I upgrade the RAM & SSD) would be able to run the necessary software like TheSkyX, CCDSoft, PH2, SGP, etc.?

 

2. Do you have a retailer that carries them that you especially like? PrimalucelabUSA is actually Woodland Hills, which is AKA telescopes.net. They had a little knowledge about it, but I'm looking to buy from a site with a bit more. Or should I call Italy?

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Mike



#61 OmarR

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:51 AM

I purchased the Eagle 3 pro version last year at NEAF. It was one of the best purchases I made for setting up and controlling my equipment remotely.

 

I thought about buying the Celeron based model and upgrading but decided against it. Not sure if it was due to warranty being an issue if I cracked open the case.

 

Another US based distributor is Land Sea and Sky Telescopes based in Texas, They have a great staff and are very familiar with the products from Prima Luce.

 

I will say that if you can get to NEAF you will save 10% as they are discounted during the event.


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#62 Delta608

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:18 PM

http://forum.mainseq...2-and-3/11451/2

 

this is a supported approach from Primaluce after discussion with them over the break. 

 

your suggestion THEY don't want you to change the drivers is nonsense - it was sold as an IOT device requiring no OS updates.

Sadly thats ironic thanks to MS smile.gif

 Again, See # 54..I was was referring to drivers of  your equipment, not being compatible without a Win-10 updated build.....One of the reasons for my return...Anything but nonsense ... It worked great except a reboot once in a while, but could not load NINA because of an older build...Net 4 or something or other...not nonsense..


Edited by Delta608, 14 January 2020 - 04:24 PM.

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#63 chriscorkill

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:56 PM

Just got my Eagle3 and wished I'd done it ages ago !!!

 

Chris - can you tell me where you get your 90 degree USB cables I can find 90 degree USB-A to USB3.0-B, and micro C, but not Micro-B or Mini-B.

 

Thank you

Hello Sgt Ernest!

I am sorry for the late response, I just got done moving across the world! I purchase my 90 degree cables from https://www.usbfirewire.com. Just make sure you get the right cable because the right and left 90 degree angle are completely different from each other. They are good quality cables at an affordable price :)

Christopher



#64 chriscorkill

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:02 PM

I have a loaded nuc, powerpole strip and usb hub.  I am VERY interested in this all in one "clean" setup  BUT.  (cons?)

I see it has a small SSD.   And major difference in price for a later one and 4 8 or 16 gb

Here is a major con.  If I get a 4gb - what if I want 8gb later?  I have to send this thing back to Italy to get an upgrade?

 

Same for SSD?  what if ram or SSD goes bad?  I can't just swap another?  I have to send it to Italy for service? 

A major pro for me is that with the nuc I can open it out and swap M2 drives or SSD's (I do and have).  

Upgradability and service ability like my Intel Nuc is a MAJOR PRO for me.   This might be something they might consider in a future model.  If I lived in Italy then fine, but in the U.S. it's not at all attractive to me to ship the thing to Europe. 

Hi Ron!

I've seen the insides of the Eagle and the RAM and SSD are not proprietary however you would void your warranty with PrimaLuceLab. There is now a service provider for Eagle located in the USA now; his name is Tom Bramwell! PrimaLuceLab decided on this move as the customer base is expanding rapidly in the USA.

 

Christopher


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#65 Noah4x4

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 03:10 AM

If you want Remote Desktop control surely an i5 Intel NUC will do the same job at less than half the price? I run my NUC ‘headless’ and have short USB cables from Camera and Focuser control to its USB3 ports. Cable management is hence easy. I affix NUC to a VESA plate affixed to scope using Velcro straps. Only trailing cable is power. The use Windows Remote Desktop to control from indoors.
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#66 ZL4PLM

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 04:05 PM

If you want Remote Desktop control surely an i5 Intel NUC will do the same job at less than half the price? I run my NUC ‘headless’ and have short USB cables from Camera and Focuser control to its USB3 ports. Cable management is hence easy. I affix NUC to a VESA plate affixed to scope using Velcro straps. Only trailing cable is power. The use Windows Remote Desktop to control from indoors.

I didnt buy it just for the compute power - my eagle integrates my whole power management, dew control, scope and guidescope mounting and allows me to have the whole unit as one lump 

 

takes me mins now to set up and i am ready to go 

 

also I can some back night after night and the setup is as I left it 

 

Its saved me hours on hours of effort 

 

its a lot more than just a NUC :) 


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#67 chriscorkill

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Posted 30 January 2020 - 03:47 PM

If you want Remote Desktop control surely an i5 Intel NUC will do the same job at less than half the price? I run my NUC ‘headless’ and have short USB cables from Camera and Focuser control to its USB3 ports. Cable management is hence easy. I affix NUC to a VESA plate affixed to scope using Velcro straps. Only trailing cable is power. The use Windows Remote Desktop to control from indoors.

Noah I am glad you found a solution that works for you. How do you have your NUC powering your accessories and dew bands? 

The Eagle computer powers everything through it's custom ports and controls the dew straps internally by setting the voltage using software. 

If it is possible, I recommend securing that NUC with bolts as it will reduce any flexure or tracking problems in the event of it moving even a little.


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#68 JukkaP

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 02:33 AM

I have used eagle3 for one season. I think its great when it works. When it does not work I hate it. I had 100% cpu problem at the beginning of the season. For some reason eagle wanted to upgrade windows, but could not. I figured I need to find a way to upgrade it. It was a mistake, the whole computer went grazy. I found a way to restore it to back to the 100% cpu problem stage. And then found witch part of the windows I needed to kill, to get the cpu working again. Well at the end of the season I wanted to try restore the windows to original. I have image of the original windows. I run macrum reflect on it, but it enden up in error. Well now I have clean ssd, but no windows.... LOL... 

 

I'am going to try install full windows, if it works great. If it does not, I will try again running the macrum image file of my windows to the ssd.

 

I have kind of hate love relationship to my eagle. I'am trying to get it to work on my new system, hopefully I get it going. I dont like the fact that you cant log in to the windows on your own account. I dont also like that there are no updates on windows. If I set up remote telescope I would like it to work years. But software will stop working in some point if you cant update windows and drivers. In fact I tested to upgrade my eagle3 wifi driver and got significant boos in transfer speed. I asked that primaluce would make update file for the drivers, but got no answer. 

 

ps.

Primalucelab customer service is beyond bad. I got answers in delay and nothing useful. I knew more about the eagle system then the one that ''helped'' me. Basically if your eagle have a problem you need to send it to Italy, always. No remote help or advice how to get it work by your self.

 

I will let you know how the full windows is working for the eagle3 once i get it in.



#69 JukkaP

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 04:04 PM

I must stand corrected!!! Today(sunday) I got really fast reply from primalucelab.

I thought that If I do fresh windows install, I do other stuff that I wanted the same time. So I bought 4gb more ddr memory(ddr4, 2400mhz so-dimm 1.2V) and 500gb ssd(samsung evo 860). I opened eagle and replaced old 256gb ssd to new 500gb.

Added one more ddr memory, there is 2 slots for memory.

Installed clean windows. Everything inside windows was working. The eagle manager was not working at the start.

I contacted primalucelab and got the ansver that I must rename the computer with my eagle license key. I thought that the previous computer was just named eagle. I gave it a go, renamed the computer as eagle and restart. After that eagle manager worked and I got full control over the power ports and usb.

I got now fully working windows, with no limitations. Fully updated, all my drivers are updated. I got great internet speed. I can access to bios and change setting's for the whole computer. Cpu usage is now typically around 1-15%. Before it was allways over 60%. The computer is so fast that I can use it as internet browser and play youtube videos. That was before impossible.

I got now 8gb of ram and 500gb of ssd inside the eagle and its great :)
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#70 ZL4PLM

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 03:39 AM

I still love both my Eagles to bits!

 

Id buy them again in a heartbeat - both have been updated to Win10 Pro and both work really well in AP/Host mode

 

I use an ext SSD on them when I need to transfer files and its fast and easy 

 

I am really impressed by mine and very happy with them both 

 

good job on the upgrade programme :) 



#71 JukkaP

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:47 PM

We talked ZL4PLM about this last fall. You said there is no reason to upgrade/update windows :). But tou have also upgraded to windows 10 pro?

I have been using the full windows in eagle now 2 days. Upgraded all, and optimized. I must say the full windows 10 pro is working much better the nerfed version of windows. Power usage is higher then before, but thats ok for me as it is in observatory use. I can fiddle with all setting, I love it. And I love my eagle now so much I will use it on my upcoming equipmemt. I was ready to sell it but installing more ram and upgrading windows was game changer for me.

I strongly suggest to upgrade windows, atleast for observatory use.

Also opening the eagle and adding more ram was easy job, that helps alot too.

#72 ZL4PLM

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 08:57 PM

I updated as I wanted to use the latest version of SGP which needed a .NET update  which is the only reason to do so ... so kind of forced to by SGP!

 

if you don't need that .NET update there is no reason to do so - for me it was not needed at the time but SGP updates have made it necessary - DOH! 

 

I have 8GB in both eagles I dont use it for more than SGP and it does that fine but as you say very easy to do as its just a NUC



#73 Dave Manning

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 08:33 AM

That's interesting cause' I'm sending mine back!!!!

It is so unreliable with wifi, connecting with Desktop Remote, etc.

Mine even had a Corrupted file that initially prevented ANY WIFI CONNECTION WHAT SO EVER!!!!!

 

NOT HAPPY!!!!!



#74 Ron Wismer

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 07:25 PM

Anyone know if this device would do two things?

 

1. Work in lieu of Celestron's SkyPortal WIFI?

 

2. Provide a WIFI Connection to older Canon EOS cameras that have no WIFI capability, but do have USB connectivity, for remote control/live viewing?



#75 kel123

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 07:45 PM

1 Yes
2 As far as your camera has USB connectivity, you can live view and control remotely because your camera will be connected to the device by USB and the device gives you access to wifi. So, yes too.


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