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Starizona “Night Owl” for EdgeHD SCT’s : Prototype initial test

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#1 Churmey

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:08 PM

Starizona is soon to release their F4 “Night Owl HD” reducer (up to 16mm diagonal sensors) design for the EdgeHD series of SCT’s.  I understand the release date to be approximately 6-8 weeks away. They were kind enough to send me a prototype to use and test with my EdgeHD 8”; I will share my experience with it here as weather permits. The backfocus of the reducer is 34mm and with a filter in the image train (behind the reducer), the backfocus is moved out 1mm to 35mm.  I will be using the Starizona filter slider, therefore my backfocus is 35mm.  My image train is : Starizona filter slider (17.5) + ASI183MM/MC-C (17.5) = 35mm. 

 

Prototype received : (Release version will have a nice finish)

 

Starizona "Night Owl" F4 prototype for EdgeHD series of SCT's

 

I took receipt of the F4 Night Owl HD on 8/3/19. Contrary to the weather forecast, the skies were clear this evening.  I had not prepared my larger mount (CEM60EC loaded with RASA) and so I quickly configured my smaller CEM25P with the EDGEHD 8 / ASI183MC-Cool / Night Owl HD / L-eNhance filter and attached a guidescope.  Admittedly, this is overload for the CEM25 and my guidescope wasn’t parallel calibrated. Nonetheless, I did not want to waste a precious clear sky evening.  To get things started, I completed a quick center star focus routine, in sharpcap, and was then ready to begin SGP.  Once complete, roughly 1Hr 40 minutes worth of data was acquired before the clouds arrived; good enough for a test run. I do want to point out that I did have a consistent amount of slight drift (due to guidescope not being parallel and large differential of scale). Moving forward, I will work to fine tune my guide system and use the larger mount.

 

080319 Test 1 Result (mild edit from red zone) :

 

STARIZONA EDGEHD NIGHT OWL : Test 1 080319

 

AB Link:

 

get.jpg?insecure

 

If you would like to review the original edit / 32 bit original stack file / single exposure, those files can be found here :

 

https://1drv.ms/u/s!...2oWR-w?e=Yvxff0

 

Considering I had slight consistent drift, I am more than pleased with this Test 1 result and am very excited about this F4 HD release. I  suspect more improvements can be made once I switch mounts and utilize a larger guide scope. It appears Starizona has designed another wonderful product here, further expanding photographic opportunities with the SCT/HD scopes.  What do you think?  More to follow......


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#2 DSOs4Me

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 02:00 AM

Are they planning to make for all the Edge SCT's. What did it bring your focal length to?



#3 Traveler

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 02:19 AM

I don't get it. Starizona stated this on their website:

 " The Night Owl works with standard Schmidt-Cassegrain telescopes (not EdgeHD or ACF models)."

 

Why do you say the Night Owl is designed for Celestron Edge HD?

 

Of course, yes i can see that it works wth your SCT. Nice result btw!



#4 John Miele

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 06:16 AM

If this is a prototype specifically for the Edge8, then the 34.5mm backfocus makes it severely limiting. I would have to remove my Moonlite focuser and go back to an ultra thin OAG to make it work. Too bad because your image looks very good...frown.gif


Edited by John Miele, 10 August 2019 - 06:19 AM.

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#5 Churmey

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 08:02 AM

Are they planning to make for all the Edge SCT's. What did it bring your focal length to?

It's my understanding that it will be universal to the EdgeHD series scopes (like their standard non-hd night owl and corrector II).  It brought my FL to ~ 870'ish.


Edited by Churmey, 10 August 2019 - 09:27 AM.


#6 Churmey

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 08:05 AM

I don't get it. Starizona stated this on their website:

 " The Night Owl works with standard Schmidt-Cassegrain telescopes (not EdgeHD or ACF models)."

 

Why do you say the Night Owl is designed for Celestron Edge HD?

 

Of course, yes i can see that it works wth your SCT. Nice result btw!

Hi Traveler.  Starizona has already released the non-Edge / standard SCT Night Owl earlier in the year.   You can see, from my above commentary, that this is a prototype / initial testing of their Night Owl HD, made specifically for the HD SCTs.  It has not been officially released yet, but due to be in approx 6-8 weeks.


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#7 Ladyhawke

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 09:51 AM

I am so buying this for my Edge 11". I am even willing to let go of my OAG and back to a guiding scope.


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#8 Astrojedi

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 10:00 AM

That looks pretty good. Is there a 2” filter thread in the front?



#9 Churmey

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 12:22 PM

That looks pretty good. Is there a 2” filter thread in the front?

Yes there is and a machined spacer is provided if you choose to not use the filter slider.



#10 John Miele

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 12:57 PM

Amazing starizona can make a universal reducer for the edge series and Celestron could not!
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#11 Churmey

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 01:04 PM

Amazing starizona can make a universal reducer for the edge series and Celestron could not!

It is impressive. Keep in mind however, that this reducer is designed for sensors up to a 16mm diagonal. Larger sensors can be used, but you will need to crop in to a 16mm diagonal.  I suppose that is the main difference between the Starizona Night Owl HD, and Celestron's HD designs. Celestron's, I believe, will do full frame correction (But are limited to F7). If you are using larger sensors (APS-C and Full Frame), I might suggest the Celestron. For the 183/1600/294, or smaller sensors, the Night Owl HD is a great fit. It's an exact match for the 183.


Edited by Churmey, 10 August 2019 - 01:08 PM.

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#12 Astrojedi

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 01:07 PM

The Celestron reducer has different specifications. Larger sensor coverage and they also wanted to maintain diffraction limited performance.
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#13 WadeH237

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:04 AM

Keep in mind however, that this reducer is designed for sensors up to a 16mm diagonal.

I knew that there had to be a catch.

 

As I read the thread, I was thinking about how I could get my imaging train down to 35mm (and I think that I might be able to do so).  My EdgeHD at F/4 might be all the imaging scope that I really need for most purposes.

 

But if the imaging circle is really 16mm, that defeats the purpose for me.  My ASI 1600 has a 22mm diagonal.  If I had to crop it down to 16mm, there is no advantage at all over my current F/7 reducer (well, except for exposure time - but that it not an issue for me).


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#14 Benni123456

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 02:59 PM

to me that image looks strange. i looked at it on atrobin from my tablet. so not the raw image. But it appears the stars at each edge have different shapes.

 

How can this get out of spherical mirrors, a concentric corrector and a concentric reducer?

I do not really know what goes on in this edge 8 when a reducer is used...



#15 Benni123456

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 03:13 PM

Because of the problematic performance of all these reducers, i sometimes think about a mak newt.

 

But looking through a skywatcher mn 190  one sees that people must practically dismantle it and piece it together on their own in order to get a correct result:

 

https://stargazerslo...comment-1760143

 

The same i guess is what they do with these edges and reducers for the edge hd line.

 

So I wonder if a normal f4 newt with a coma correcting 1.4 barlow lens would give me a decent scope. The barlow would have a backfocus of around 90mm, enough for filter wheel, off axis guider and my active optics, while it would make the thing more collimation tolerant at f 5.6...

 

i simply have no time to collimate a scope before each observation....


Edited by GShaffer, 13 August 2019 - 04:35 AM.


#16 NorthOfBostonMan

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 05:30 PM

  Given there has already been a focal reducer available for the Celestron Edge, I can't figure out why they would not want to try and capture one untapped part of the market: a focal reducer for the Meade ACF series.

  I know that they are more of a Celestron shop, but it is not like there are not a ton of ACF scopes out there either.


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#17 Stargazer3236

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 07:20 PM

Can the Starizona Filter Slider work without the Hyperstar? Like at the back end of the telescope?



#18 saguaro

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 10:30 PM

Can the Starizona Filter Slider work without the Hyperstar? Like at the back end of the telescope?

Yes. I use mine with a focal reducer at the eyepiece end of my SCT, and I also use it with my Hyperstar.



#19 saguaro

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Posted 12 August 2019 - 08:16 AM

  Given there has already been a focal reducer available for the Celestron Edge, I can't figure out why they would not want to try and capture one untapped part of the market: a focal reducer for the Meade ACF series.

  I know that they are more of a Celestron shop, but it is not like there are not a ton of ACF scopes out there either.

In talking with them, they said that the goal was to make a version that works with either Meade ACF f/10 (but not ACF F/8) or Celestron EdgeHD scopes. I believe that is still the case but needs to be confirmed now that they have a prototype. I’ll ask them when I get a chance but you can certainly ask them yourself and let us know here.



#20 OleCuss

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 01:13 PM

I knew that there had to be a catch.

 

As I read the thread, I was thinking about how I could get my imaging train down to 35mm (and I think that I might be able to do so).  My EdgeHD at F/4 might be all the imaging scope that I really need for most purposes.

 

But if the imaging circle is really 16mm, that defeats the purpose for me.  My ASI 1600 has a 22mm diagonal.  If I had to crop it down to 16mm, there is no advantage at all over my current F/7 reducer (well, except for exposure time - but that it not an issue for me).

Well, there are still some advantages you could derive from the use of the Night Owl HD with the ASI1600.

 

1.  For most of us using the F/4 reducer would be reducing the over-sampling.  Since the ASI1600 is a low-noise camera the benefit in noise reduction may not be enough to make much difference, but it would still be an improvement to some degree.

2.  It gives you more framing opportunities.  Using a rectangular sensor to capture an image circle means that if you are making the typical choice (sensor diagonal is smaller than the image circle) there is a lot of the image circle which is being missed.  With the combination of the ASI1600 and the Night Owl HD, your sensor would capture pretty much the entirety of the image circle and that means that if you don't use an ROI to greatly reduce the effective sensor size you will have the ability to crop down in different orientations to capture just what you want.  You could actually choose to have a circular image which shows the full image circle with nothing else showing.  Whether or not this would be something you would value, I do not know.

3.  The decreased focal length means tracking errors and atmospheric turbulence would be less likely to cause issues.  If you are blessed with still air and superb tracking this may not help you, but the potential is there for a lot of us.


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#21 Robby9newbie

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 06:00 PM

Since it appears that the Night Owl HD reducer will make use of the entire imaging circle when coupled with an ASI1600 how will this affect the use of an off axis guider?

Robin



#22 Astrojedi

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 06:44 PM

Robin,

I don't think the reducer is designed to be use with sensor of that size. I think the best it can do is the 183.



#23 Robby9newbie

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 07:05 PM

Astrojedi

I had a feeling that this reducer would not work with the ASI1600 and an OAG

Thanks

Robin



#24 OleCuss

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 08:13 PM

While the Night Owl doesn't seem to be designed for use with a sensor the size of the MN34230, I'd think you could use it rather nicely by simply defining a smaller ROI.

 

And while I've never used an OAG, what little I know would suggest that if you use a smaller ROI for the ASI1600?  I'd think you could still use the OAG.

 

I'd probably choose the ASI183 over the ASI1600 for use with the Night Owl, but I'd not be at all afraid of using the ASI1600.


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#25 Churmey

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 09:59 PM

Update :  Although a full moon, finally had a clear evening and am doing a test session now on the Wizard Nebula.  I spent some time doing critical focus and I have to say, the field looks very good. In addition, I am using a C5 as a guidescope so I have greatly minimized my drift. I hope to have something posted here within the next few days.


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