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Ammonite Fossils, a Question?

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#26 Observer200

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 03:09 PM

So it is done because they wanted to compare with a real picture? I got it like they already have designed it, and then they found a picture that looks like it... So I got it wrong at first. First time I see Jane Doe project...

 

How exact do you need it to be?



#27 ColoHank

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 05:12 PM

As far as I can tell no one has answered the original question, which I take to be: why do all depictions of ammonites look alike when they cannot be based on physical evidence?

 

I am neither a paleontologist nor biologist but here is my best shot:

 

The best justification is the concept of bracketing.  If the original organization is extinct comparisons are made to the nearest groups with a common ancestor. If all the groups which bracket the extinct group share a trait, it can be inferred that the extinct group shared them also.

 

In this case ammonites are assumed to share a common ancestor with squid, nautiloids, octopuses, etc.  Since all these groups share a head surrounded by feet (hence the name Cephalopod) it is assumed that their common ancestor also had this trait.  Since ammonites descended from the common ancestor it is assumed they inherited this trait as well.

 

So the representation is speculation, but it makes far more sense than giving it an elephant's trunk or a fly's antennae.

How many people visualize Christ as looking like the ubiquitous Warner Sallman portrait painted in 1940?  What basis did Sallman have for depicting Jesus as a fair-skinned man with flowing brown hair and western European features? 


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#28 Jim_V

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 10:43 AM

Yes, it's true that scientists have agendas.  Scientists have egos, scientists have biases, some scientists have integrity issues.

 

However, scientists are not science.  The entire process of science, the demand for repeatability, for openness, for accessible citations, for falsifiability and refutations, is designed to overcome the limitations of individual scientists and to ensure that the progression of knowledge is not blocked by those individuals.

 

It's a slow, painstaking, halting, inefficient, messy process, and when you see it up close it IS a lot like making sausage.  But those popular articles that people like to point at as justification for their opinion that "science gets it wrong" is the equivalent of mistaking a meat grinder for sausage.

 

 

As I've observed round here before, if science is fundamentally flawed, you have enormous trouble explaining the outstanding success of technology.

The Science process is not like a meat grinder Dave's, sorry. You don't just take the meat leftovers, throw them into a meat grinder, and puree it  and feed the goo into a cleaned out intestine of a cow, goat, pig or sheep. Twist them up into shape, and cook them in a smoker.

 

It is however a process where theories are  tossed around and examined, reevaluated, speculated defined tested and sometimes, proven

.

After all we all know this is true, since our electronic devices work on captive smoke. Want the proof? When the smoke is let out, they stop working.



#29 llanitedave

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 12:01 PM

The Science process is not like a meat grinder Dave's, sorry. You don't just take the meat leftovers, throw them into a meat grinder, and puree it  and feed the goo into a cleaned out intestine of a cow, goat, pig or sheep. Twist them up into shape, and cook them in a smoker.

 

It is however a process where theories are  tossed around and examined, reevaluated, speculated defined tested and sometimes, proven

.

After all we all know this is true, since our electronic devices work on captive smoke. Want the proof? When the smoke is let out, they stop working.

I'm only talking about premium sausage, obviously!  smile.gif


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#30 Mister T

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:28 AM

I have no idea what Ammonites look like, but I do know what Mennonites look like.

Ammonites look like Mennonites, but with guns...Rim_Shot.gif



#31 llanitedave

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 12:04 PM

Pretty much an Amish Paradise.



#32 Spacefreak1974

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 12:58 PM

Like, I have a feeling Dinosaurs skin weren't that thick, hard as in the movies and pictures. I've read that paleontologists aren't sure of Dinosaurs exact color, they say might be grayish, green or anything.

 

Interesting read https://www.theatlan...-statue/535782/


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#33 Observer200

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 12:59 PM

Basically I came across this song;

https://www.youtube....h?v=lOfZLb33uCg

Pretty much an Amish Paradise.



#34 llanitedave

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 02:39 PM

Basically I came across this song;

https://www.youtube....h?v=lOfZLb33uCg

That's the one.  The hat and beard make him look kind of like an ammonite, don't you think?



#35 theropod

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Posted 24 September 2019 - 10:45 PM

Soft tissue of ammonites has been documented several times. Check out the link.

 

https://onlinelibrar...83.2012.01196.x


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#36 BillP

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Posted 26 September 2019 - 10:57 PM

If you actually read the papers, and not just the Gee Whiz news feeds, you'll see the details, the reasoning behind the conclusions, the caveats, and the cautions.  But, the problem is, you don't read the papers, you take some untrained aggregator's interpretation, and then you blame the scientists for that misinterpretation.

 

Very true.  The source of the so called "fake news" has been out there for a very long time...they are called "reporters" lol.gif



#37 llanitedave

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Posted 27 September 2019 - 08:50 PM

Very true.  The source of the so called "fake news" has been out there for a very long time...they are called "reporters" lol.gif

There are some good ones, and some not so good.  Like with anything else.  Eventually, one sees enough of the more prolific ones, at least, to be able to know how trustworthy they are.  There are some who I'd consider very reliable sources in their field, such as Eric Berger of Ars Technica.


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