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I plan to show off Jupiter and Saturn before sunset.

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#1 stargazer193857

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 03:33 AM

I play chess at a club where some people either have not looked through a telescope or not a good one guided by someone in the know. The woman who made us all cookies told me so. She also sewed her own chess bag and bought a big pink chess board. So I plan to bring my 80mm f5 scope next time. Yesterday I won their 16 person chess tournament that they organised so selflessly without me even with a $20 cash award. So I need to give back.

We pack up at 7pm, and the sun sets around 9pm. The place where we play chess forces me to aim at least 35 deg west of south, if I want to aim from the chess boards and not beg a few people to meet together in the parking lot.

I'll bring a white light solar. I also need to calculate where Saturn and Jupiter will be so I can find them when it is light out.

I've seen Jupiter and Mars at 200x at noon, and they looked good, but that was with go-to and 24" scope. I have to find them with a 80mm f5 refractor on an AZ photo tripod and 1x unpowered sight. My eyepieces are 20mm 66deg, 14mm 82 deg, and 8.8mm 82 deg.
I have binoculars but see no point in bringing the 16x. Maybe the 5x, though I don't know if even they can see it.

How hard will this be 2 hours before sunset, and will the 5x25 see anything?

I can experiment from home on the days leading up, but am curious what people know.

Also, another reason I'm bring the ST 80 is I'm on a bicycle. I could strap a bigger scope to my back, but I'm thinking the smaller scope is better for the 7-mile ride, and tall enough to see over the railing.

Will Jupiter's moons be visible 2 hours before sunset at 53x in 80mm aperture? I'll report my findings tomorrow, but hoping someone has tried it before.

Hopefully the sun has sun spots.

The planets should more a degree closer to the sun each day.

Any info on degrees from the sun and from each other and above the horizon would be wonderful.

Thanks.

Edited by stargazer193857, 18 August 2019 - 03:51 AM.


#2 stargazer193857

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 04:05 AM

When teaching beginners to aim a scope, the moon comes first. The the planets or city lights. DSO are those enthusiastic enough to memorize locations.

For daytime, the sun is first. It actually is more challenging than the moon since you can't look at it. So I'll get good at that this week. Aiming at plants is next most difficult. Maybe I can get Venus too. And Mercury. I want to give these people a new experience. Chess players wont be the only peoplr there. Any info is appreciated. Should I ask the establishment for permission first? It will be their balcony, but I can't think of any clear management other than a bar tender for the shop inside a bigger shop.

Edited by stargazer193857, 18 August 2019 - 04:09 AM.


#3 Mark9473

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 04:49 AM

Interesting experiment. I'd try with much lower magnification than 53x for finding it - you need to maximize surface brightness otherwise it'll be too dim.

I've often seen the outer planets shortly after sunset, but two hours before will be challenging.

 

The Sun has no sunspots, see: http://www.spaceweather.com/

And forget about Venus and Mercury. Venus is very very close to the Sun, and Mercury is on the wrong side.

 

You should run a planetarium program. Where I live, two hours before sunset Saturn is only just on the horizon.



#4 Astrojensen

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 06:16 AM

 

I have to find them with a 80mm f5 refractor on an AZ photo tripod and 1x unpowered sight.

That is going to be insanely, mind-blowingly difficult. You need to somehow get the scope pointed very close to their position, via setting circles or GOTO, so that you can see them in the main scope with a low power eyepiece. The sky also needs to be very, very clear, if you want to see any other planet than Venus. If the sky is slightly hazy, all the others will be extremely difficult to spot. Especially Jupiter and Saturn. It helps considerably in any case, if the Moon is close by and can help as a stepping stone and something to adjust the focus on (if you don't have a front mounted white-light solar filter). 

 

And yes, I speak from experience. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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#5 sg6

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 06:31 AM

Hard bit is getting either in view, have done similar and in a few weeks I may be trying Venus in mid afternoon. Have done Deneb and Aldebaren on a sunny afternoon, so Jupiter/Saturn should be "easy".

 

One question is will either be above the horizon?

Saturn is the worst, stll small and dim, Jupiter you might get in binoculars with some care.

Unsure of mount and setup, you need tracking as a minimum. And you need to nicely explain that grabbing the scope enough to move it causes a lot of work.

 

Not sure if any filter would aid in making Jupiter stand out amongst the sky better. Have a thought says a light yellow one - removes blue of sky and Jupiter is yellow/brown so might (only might) be useful. A deeper/heavy yellow likely will not help. Interesting exercise.

 

If any set up is by a compass determine the compensation for magnetic declination that has to be applied.

Skysafari will help at least in Az, I find the Alt open to debate for accuracy as the angle of the phone/tablet has effect.



#6 Garyth64

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 07:43 AM

Jupiter and Saturn, as said, will be very hard to find.  Especially if your only view is to the SW.

 

This evening, at 7pm, Jupiter will be east of the meridian, and Saturn will be low on the horizon in the SE.  At 8pm, Jupiter will be due south.

Jupiter's RA is 16h52m, and Saturn's is 19h02m, so Saturn is about two hours or about 30 degrees east of Jupiter.



#7 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 08:16 AM

As others have said, it will be difficult.

 

When I want to find something during daylight hours, I do some cheating. I use a digital level. These are actual precise angle gauges that are accurate to about +/- 0.1°. I recommend the Wixey 365, it has an LCD screen that's not backlit so it can be illuminated by a red light for night use.

 

I place the level on the OTA, using my lowest power, widest field eyepiece, I focus on a distant object. Then, using Sky Safari, I get the precise altitude, set the scope to the correct altitude and scan the area of the estimated azimuth. A level tripod helps.

 

Jon


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#8 Astrojensen

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 09:14 AM

Hard bit is getting either in view, have done similar and in a few weeks I may be trying Venus in mid afternoon. Have done Deneb and Aldebaren on a sunny afternoon, so Jupiter/Saturn should be "easy".

Wrong. The stars are MUCH easier to see against the daytime sky, because they're very bright, pinpoints of light, while the planets are surprisingly low surface brightness objects competing with the bright background. 

 

In my 63mm Zeiss Telemator, Arcturus is a very bright, golden orangish star, that stands out amazingly well on a deep blue background. At high magnification, the first diffraction ring can be easily seen. By comparison, Jupiter is a very low contrast, feeble, yellowish disk, with two faint main belts and perhaps a hint of darkening towards the poles. There is no hint of the moons. 

 

A star that is fun to find in daylight is Castor. I can easily split in daytime with the 63mm Zeiss. It should also be possible to split Algieba (gamma Leonis) in the daytime, but I've yet to try this.

 

1st-magnitude stars are actually bright enough to do a star test on in broad daylight.

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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#9 stargazer193857

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 02:26 PM

Not seeing the moons is what I recall in the 24". They really get people's interest. Showing off some stars might be nice. I recall Jupiter being somewhat low contrast but good none the less. 80mm might be pushing that, expecially at low magnification. Seeing it at all on a blue background would be nice.

Sounds like I would have to find it in the parking lot, recruiting interested people, and using the digital level and a compass.

#10 stargazer193857

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 02:49 PM

The club organiser is interested. This could be a fun New exercise I do during the day.

#11 stargazer193857

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 01:38 AM

In another thread, other people said Jupiter is obvious and bright in 10x50 binoculars, if you point them the right direction.

#12 Mark9473

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 03:49 AM

In another thread, other people said Jupiter is obvious and bright in 10x50 binoculars, if you point them the right direction.

Take a hint from the 5 mm exit pupil.




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