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Pegasus Astro Ultimate Powerbox V2 - doesn't like Rigel motors

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#1 psandelle

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 07:25 PM

So, just started hooking it all up today, and, except for some major conflict between the QHY capture and guider cameras (can't use them both in USB 3 on the UPB or it disconnects; so, guider gets to be USB 2 till they fix that), but trying to get the built-in focus controller to work with my Rigel motor is a no-go for now. Despite their manual saying a straight RJ12 to RJ12 6p6c cable should work, the motor only works in one direction. Sigh.

 

Anyone have a clue of what I should try? Pegasus Astro is on vaca till the 20th, so I'm not expecting an answer till then, or longer.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul


Edited by psandelle, 18 August 2019 - 07:25 PM.


#2 Akwilliams

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 04:37 AM

If its working one way but not the other, its almost certainly a pin out on the connection.   First i have ever known the Pegasus guys taking a vacation..!   I know them quite well and they will get back to as soon as they are back.. in my experince their support is 2nd to none.  You'll be working in no time.



#3 psandelle

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 10:45 AM

Thanks for the reply. They DID get back to me (it was their own messaging that mentioned a vacation, but I guess it truly was "limited"), only I had already tried the things Evans suggested. Fingers crossed; it's ALWAYS something when installing new stuff. grin.gif

 

Paul

 

PS: they are already working on the twin camera conflict problem, so that's just a matter of time.

 

p


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#4 psandelle

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Posted 19 August 2019 - 07:00 PM

Just as a follow-up, Evans did realize that the cable pinout in the manual was incorrect and sent a correct one and is also going to make a couple cables for me. EXCELLENT service, and I put it out to everyone who's trying to get a 6p6c-type motor plug to connect with the Ultimate Powerbox V2 that, if this works out, should again be easy-peasy.

 

Paul



#5 MikeMiller

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 08:50 PM

I just ordered a Ultimate Powerbox V2 today and have a Rigel motor.

 

The documentation on pegasus' site looks correct incorrect, Rigel wants a reversed cable not a straight through one. (pin 1 should connect to pin 6, 2->5, etc) 

 

I couldn't find details on Rigel's site on which pin actually does what, so I am still unsure of what cable I need.

 

https://pegasusastro...otor-pinout.pdf

http://rigel.datacor...STEP manual.pdf

 

What is this different pinout they sent to you?



#6 psandelle

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:36 AM

Your first link (the one in the manual was a straight RJ12 6p6c to RJ12 6p6c cable). I'll try it when it comes and let you know. Leon at Rigel said it should probably work (the first link you have) after I sent it to him to look at.

 

Paul



#7 evansg

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 05:07 PM

Folks,

It is gonna work.  It does not matter if the order is reverse. Motor will turn reverse (it always depends from which side of the telescope you have attached the motor). 

In case that movement is reverse just click "Reverse" in Ultimate Powerbox software and this will set the motor pinout correctly.


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#8 rigelsys

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:23 PM

Gentlefolks,

 

Voice vs Data DOES matter.

 

At the nSTEP controller end RJ12, pins 1-4 are for the unipolar stepper coils, pins 5 & 6 are 12V.  this order  is reversed at the stepper end. That's why a DATA cable doesn't work, it puts 12V on the wrong pins at the STEPPER end. See the attached image for what I mean.

 

Now we didn't plan it this way, we were just trying to be compatible with another manufacturer (who predated us).  Hence the reverse (VOICE) cable. Now we recognize that Pegasus is running ours (and others) unipolar steppers as bipolar, which is a doable do with no problems.  But the pin order does matter, its not just a matter of reversing the cable to reverse the stepper.

 

But it always makes my head hurt keeping pins 1-6 in order :-P  And I could still be wrong :-D

 

 

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#9 MikeMiller

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 10:08 AM

Thanks for positing the pinout. I am glad my understanding was correct on the reversing. I am "borrowing" the crimping tool from work tonight. :)

 

I am going to make sure I take my nStep to out just in case the new Pegasus doesn't work. I think the last time I used the nStep I couldn't get the motor to spin. I may have used a non-reversed cable, since I wasn't aware of this and didn't label my cables. Is there any danger in damaging the motor if the 12v is hooked up wrong?

 

I have always despised RJxx jacks. Why do the blue and green wires need to be interleaved? If that wasn't the case, it wouldn't matter which cable we used.


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#10 psandelle

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 10:35 AM

Let us know how it goes!

 

Paul



#11 MikeMiller

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:58 PM

Let us know how it goes!

 

Paul

No problem. My Powerbox shipped today, so I might not have time to get it wired up for next week's Cherry Springs trip. But hopefully I can at least run it a bit to make sure the motors spin. No need to hook it up to the telescope for that.



#12 rigelsys

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 01:41 PM

Thanks for positing the pinout. I am glad my understanding was correct on the reversing. I am "borrowing" the crimping tool from work tonight. smile.gif

 

I am going to make sure I take my nStep to out just in case the new Pegasus doesn't work. I think the last time I used the nStep I couldn't get the motor to spin. I may have used a non-reversed cable, since I wasn't aware of this and didn't label my cables. Is there any danger in damaging the motor if the 12v is hooked up wrong?

 

I have always despised RJxx jacks. Why do the blue and green wires need to be interleaved? If that wasn't the case, it wouldn't matter which cable we used.

No problem on reversing, everything is optoisolated,  all end up is with 12v in the wrong places

 

just make sure the coils are paired up 


Edited by rigelsys, 22 August 2019 - 01:42 PM.

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#13 psandelle

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 01:54 PM

No problem on reversing, everything is optoisolated,  all end up is with 12v in the wrong places

 

just make sure the coils are paired up 

Whoo-hooo! No blowin' stuff up!

 

Paul


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#14 rigelsys

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 04:29 PM

Whoo-hooo! No blowin' stuff up!

 

Paul

 

Unless you hook the 12V up backwards!  I've had a customer do that.  Released the magic smoke from the hexfet stepper drivers lol.gif

 

Sent it in, I tracked down the burnt one and swapped in a new one.  Good as new.  That's why I keep the 12V stepper side optoisolated from the usb 5V side!

 

EVAN, you paying attention?  

 

 

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Edited by rigelsys, 22 August 2019 - 04:33 PM.

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#15 psandelle

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 04:35 PM

Unless you hook the 12V up backwards!  I've had a customer do that.  Released the magic smoke from the hexfet stepper drivers lol.gif

 

Sent it in, I tracked down the burnt one and swapped in a new one.  Good as new.  That's why I keep the 12V stepper side optoisolated from the usb 5V side!

 

EVAN, you paying attention?  

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

 

I'm just hooking the motor to the Pegasus. No smoke for me! (Fingers crossed.)

 

Paul



#16 psandelle

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 03:11 PM

UPDATE: waiting for some cables made by Pegasus Astro, but thought I'd try my hand at crimping my own cables with the new pinout (I don't trust they'll be very good/solid compared to REAL crimping by REAL crimpers, but wanted to test). VOILA! Works forwards and back now. If it stays clear Saturday (knock on wood), I'll take it all out to try out. WHOO-HOO!

 

Paul


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#17 rigelsys

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 08:05 PM

UPDATE: waiting for some cables made by Pegasus Astro, but thought I'd try my hand at crimping my own cables with the new pinout (I don't trust they'll be very good/solid compared to REAL crimping by REAL crimpers, but wanted to test). VOILA! Works forwards and back now. If it stays clear Saturday (knock on wood), I'll take it all out to try out. WHOO-HOO!

 

Paul

Publish the pinout !



#18 psandelle

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 09:03 PM

Someone did it up above, but by popular demand, I shall link: https://pegasusastro...otor-pinout.pdf

 

Paul



#19 adavoli

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 09:32 AM

I hope somebody can help me here with a similar problem and an Optec motor.  I was told the UPBv2 could drive my Optec TCF-LEO and eliminate my FocusLynx controller.  I found the cable diagram for the HSM motors which are made for Starlight by Optec.  I am almost certain they are the same motors and I am pretty good at making cables.  I made the cable up and the motor works but it makes some god awful noise.  Sounds like aluminum cans in a blender compared to the purr of a Ferrari.  I wasn't able to detect any motion  but I could feel the shaft of the motor turning. Its exposed and if I put my finger over it I can feel it rotate.  I am afraid to move the focuser too much with it making that noise.  

 

I did some other tests.  I also have an Optec QuickSync MEF for my Takahashi telescope.  I can clearly see this unit move but it is still making a different noise than it does when I use the same motor with my FocusLynx controller.  

 

Any suggestions?

 

 https://pegasusastro...otor-pinout.pdf



#20 rigelsys

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 02:58 PM

I hope somebody can help me here with a similar problem and an Optec motor.  I was told the UPBv2 could drive my Optec TCF-LEO and eliminate my FocusLynx controller.  I found the cable diagram for the HSM motors which are made for Starlight by Optec.  I am almost certain they are the same motors and I am pretty good at making cables.  I made the cable up and the motor works but it makes some god awful noise.  Sounds like aluminum cans in a blender compared to the purr of a Ferrari.  I wasn't able to detect any motion  but I could feel the shaft of the motor turning. Its exposed and if I put my finger over it I can feel it rotate.  I am afraid to move the focuser too much with it making that noise.  

 

I did some other tests.  I also have an Optec QuickSync MEF for my Takahashi telescope.  I can clearly see this unit move but it is still making a different noise than it does when I use the same motor with my FocusLynx controller.  

 

Any suggestions?

 

 https://pegasusastro...otor-pinout.pdf

Check in pegasus software what pulse duration is set to.  You may be tring to drive it too fast? 


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#21 thomas glynn

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 04:27 PM

I guess this issue would be for the smart guys.  I have two scopes with Rigel focuser motors and controllers.  My UPB V2 should arrive tomorrow.  Leon had previously sent me the link to run two GCUSB_nStep simultaneously.  So when I am hooking up the focus motors, can I use the Rigel controller on one focuser to one of the USB 2.0 ports and the RJ6pin cable to the other motor through the stepper motor controller 8 pin port?   

 

My pier was hit by a power surge and I lost two ZWO cameras and my rigel stepper motor and controller.  I sent the controller and motor back to Rigel and Leon replaced a bad chip.  Repair cost me $10.  Now that's good customer service.

 

Tom Glynn

Springfield, MO



#22 MikeMiller

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 08:41 AM

I guess this issue would be for the smart guys.  I have two scopes with Rigel focuser motors and controllers.  My UPB V2 should arrive tomorrow.  Leon had previously sent me the link to run two GCUSB_nStep simultaneously.  So when I am hooking up the focus motors, can I use the Rigel controller on one focuser to one of the USB 2.0 ports and the RJ6pin cable to the other motor through the stepper motor controller 8 pin port?   

 

My pier was hit by a power surge and I lost two ZWO cameras and my rigel stepper motor and controller.  I sent the controller and motor back to Rigel and Leon replaced a bad chip.  Repair cost me $10.  Now that's good customer service.

 

Tom Glynn

Springfield, MO

Yeah, that should work fine. They will be 2 separate ASCOM drivers, so there is no chance they will collide. The driver does not care which brand motor is hooked up to the controller.


Edited by MikeMiller, 28 October 2019 - 09:13 AM.

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#23 gundark

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 08:29 PM

I hope somebody can help me here with a similar problem and an Optec motor. I was told the UPBv2 could drive my Optec TCF-LEO and eliminate my FocusLynx controller. I found the cable diagram for the HSM motors which are made for Starlight by Optec. I am almost certain they are the same motors and I am pretty good at making cables. I made the cable up and the motor works but it makes some god awful noise. Sounds like aluminum cans in a blender compared to the purr of a Ferrari. I wasn't able to detect any motion but I could feel the shaft of the motor turning. Its exposed and if I put my finger over it I can feel it rotate. I am afraid to move the focuser too much with it making that noise.

I did some other tests. I also have an Optec QuickSync MEF for my Takahashi telescope. I can clearly see this unit move but it is still making a different noise than it does when I use the same motor with my FocusLynx controller.

Any suggestions?

https://pegasusastro...otor-pinout.pdf

You are not alone!

I have a starlight instruments HSM30, which is identical to the Optec counterpart. I made a custom cable to use it with my UPBv2 (I am pretty good at making cables, just as you are).

I exchanged a few emails with Evans at Pegasus regarding pin-outs and the safety of using a 12 V controller to control a 5 V motor, and he assured me that it would be safe. I then connected the UPBv2 to the HSM30 and, to my horror, the motor started making noise like a coffee grinder! I quickly switched off the motor and felt the motor housing. It was very warm after only a brief time. I took the housing off and felt the motor and it was surprisingly hot. I decided right then that I would not be using these two pieces of equipment together.

When I hooked the HSM30 back up to the Optec controller it worked perfectly again, just as it had for years.

Edited by gundark, 28 October 2019 - 08:31 PM.


#24 rigelsys

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 11:05 PM

You are not alone!

I have a starlight instruments HSM30, which is identical to the Optec counterpart. I made a custom cable to use it with my UPBv2 (I am pretty good at making cables, just as you are).

I exchanged a few emails with Evans at Pegasus regarding pin-outs and the safety of using a 12 V controller to control a 5 V motor, and he assured me that it would be safe. I then connected the UPBv2 to the HSM30 and, to my horror, the motor started making noise like a coffee grinder! I quickly switched off the motor and felt the motor housing. It was very warm after only a brief time. I took the housing off and felt the motor and it was surprisingly hot. I decided right then that I would not be using these two pieces of equipment together.

When I hooked the HSM30 back up to the Optec controller it worked perfectly again, just as it had for years.

that is probably correct, that and what pulse width is set to.  STEPPERs can be run at higher voltage without damage (they just run warmer) for higher torque  I have 12V steppers I run at 24V on my 2 axis table I use for milling on my small Micromark drill press.  Gives me the torque I need to run the table, the steppers do run warm, but has worked reliably for 8 years..  

 

Given that the HSM and MICROTOUCH motors are small low voltage ones that attach to the the 10x speed reducer resulting in a lot of "gearing down" to produce enough torque to turn the focus knob, they have to run fast to have a reasonable fast focus speed,  which requires very short pulses,  which the HSM controller is set up for..  So knowing the pulse width or ability to adjust it on the Pegasus is important.  I've had customers run our big steppers with the micro touch controller, and we've found the micro touch controller has to be set to "normal" speed (not "high speed") so it outputs pulse long enough for our stepper's coils to energize.  I don't see anyway in the Pegasus instructions to set the pulse width shorter, so it is probably hammering the HSM motor with a long 12V pulse!

 

The steppers they use are NIPPON PULSE ones, I used to know the part number (in OPtec TCF they're part no 3152 in their schematic)  but haven't found my notes:-(


Edited by rigelsys, 28 October 2019 - 11:24 PM.


#25 psandelle

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Posted 29 October 2019 - 09:06 AM

Slightly off-topic (but, hey, I started this thread, so sue me), but the UPBv2 was a lifesaver last Saturday. 1. My QHY cameras were not connecting correctly, so being able to turn the USB ports on and off to troubleshoot was a winner; 2. The QHY ASCOM driver has not been reading the power demand correctly for a while (shows 100% power no matter what), but in watching the power draw in the UPBv2 software and the power graph, I could tell it was running fine and dropping down to less than 100% as it hit the cooling point, even if the ASCOM driver wasn't reading that. Win-win-win!

 

Paul


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