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Nagler T4 12mm vs DeLite vs Morpheus

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#1 vvars

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 05:28 AM

Recently came to me an offer for a used Nagler type4 12mm eyepiece at the same price i can get new Baader Morpheus 12.5 mm or new Tele Vue DeLite 13.0 mm.

 

What do you guys think, is the Nagler eyepiece that much better to make the purchase a good choice? 


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#2 Miranda2525

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 06:29 AM

Recently came to me an offer for a used Nagler type4 12mm eyepiece at the same price i can get new Baader Morpheus 12.5 mm or new Tele Vue DeLite 13.0 mm.

 

What do you guys think, is the Nagler eyepiece that much better to make the purchase a good choice? 

The Morpheus is easier to look thru. The 12mm T4 is tricky on the eye. The Morpheus is just as immersive and very sharp.


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#3 jaraxx

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:00 AM

The Morpheus 12.5 is as good as any in that line and very comfortable in use - it's my solution to fit between 10 and 15mm and I really enjoy using it. If weight is a consideration the DeLite is a few ounces lighter than the Morpheus while the Nagler is a few ounces heavier. The Nagler is the widest field, but you probably can't tell the difference between the Nagler at 82° and the Morpheus at 76° without them being side by side. The DeLite is probably the sharpest (with its 62° field), the other two offering wider fields and maybe not quite as sharp to the edge. They are still sharp enough, and while I have not compared them side by side I'd guess the Nagler with all that extra glass a bit better than the Morpheus in the last 5-10% of the field. 

If I were going for an eyepiece for planets I'd get the DeLite, if I were going for the widest view it would be the Nagler4. If I were covering as many bases as comfortably as possible it would be the Morpheus.

 

Having examined the question from every angle one thing becomes clear: It is absolutely impossible to make a mistake choosing between these three eyepieces.


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#4 csrlice12

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:33 AM

For long etye relief, I went with the Pentax XWs and the TeleVue Delos.  Only 70* fov, but probably the best 70*you'll ever see.  I owned the 12 and 17 T4s...sold both, not that they were bad, but they weren't near as comfortable as the XW/Delos, and I didn't like the instadjust.



#5 vvars

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:07 AM

Delos may be superb but its definitely out of price range, almost double price than those 3 :)



#6 csrlice12

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:26 AM

At 66yo, if I had back every dollar I wasted or frittered away, I'd have a domed observatory with a 30+" scope....yea, they're expensive, till you cost it out over the lifetime of use...few things in life will last you a lifetime, eyepieces are one of those few things that will.


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#7 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:42 AM

I think the Explore Scientific 12mm 92 degree eyepiece is the best 12 mm available.  The only possible drawbacks IMO is it's 2" and heavy.  This is just my opinion.


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#8 nicoledoula

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 11:02 AM

Go with the Delite "easy to look through" and "perfection".


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#9 rowdy388

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 11:36 AM

As Jaraxx said, impossible to chose a bad eyepiece with these three choices. Down to personal preferences.

For myself, I'd chose the Morpheus. I don't think of the Nagler as a better eyepiece. I see it as the weakest T4

in the series and a bit dated.


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#10 vvars

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 12:50 PM

Thx all for helping me, i find it tough decision cause my wallet isnt at its best so i have to weight my choice well.

 

So seems like im leaving behind the used Nagler T4, down to morpheus or delite now...



#11 howardcano

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:43 AM

If you intend to sometimes use it with a Barlow, the Delite is lighter and smaller.  Of course, if your scope can handle the Morpheus plus Barlow, then it's not an issue.



#12 25585

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:15 AM

I read in an old review that ghosting can be an issue in the old 12T4. 

 

Of your 3, the Morpheus is what I have, one of the best of that range. 


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#13 izar187

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:40 AM

Thx all for helping me, i find it tough decision cause my wallet isnt at its best so i have to weight my choice well.

 

So seems like im leaving behind the used Nagler T4, down to morpheus or delite now...

But, but...

 

That 12mm has the largest field. It is dandy. Particularly for a hand track mount.

You can sell it later for probably what it costs you. In a wink.

 

Is this 12mm to 13mm dilemma an ep that you intend to barlow ?

If so, will weight be an issue with any of these three ?

For your tube or focuser ? 

 

Which of the three will best match a future larger scope you are thinkin' about?



#14 alnitak22

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:16 AM

I read in an old review that ghosting can be an issue in the old 12T4. 

 

Of your 3, the Morpheus is what I have, one of the best of that range. 

Really? You read in an old review? Well, that’s compelling evidence. But more compelling would be to relate what objects and what scopes you saw ghosting in the 12 T4. I had one for years before replacing it with the 13T6. Scopes used were 6” f/8 Newt and TV85. Never saw ghosting on any object.


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#15 rkelley8493

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:46 AM

I've heard of issues with the 12T4 as well.. Supposedly, it is by far the bottom of the totem pole of the Type 4's, the best being the 22. I can vouch for the 22 being excellent. It's my most used eyepiece in both of my main scopes.

If it was me, I'd probably go with the Morpheus out of the bunch. I've had a chance to use some of them, and they are very similar to the Delos & Pentax XW. Delos, XW, and Morpheus are all about the same size with different body types. The DeLite is also similar but with a smaller eye lens and field of view. It's literally a "Lite" version of the Delos.


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#16 peleuba

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:52 AM

Never saw ghosting on any object.

 

Neither did I, but I still have never liked the 12NT4.  I own the complete sets of Delos, Delite, NT4 and NT6.  If I had to make a choice I would dump the 12NT4 for either the Delos, or the Delite.   

 

I just have never ever warmed up to the 12mm Nagler Type 4.  IMO its the weakest ocular in the T4 lineup.     

 

One of my all-time favorite eyepieces is the 13mm NT6 which would also make a good substitute for the 12NT4.

 

Eyepiece choices are very subjective and, it also depends on the telescope that you observe with.  Don't take my opinion as gospel, its only another data point along your decision path.  


Edited by peleuba, 21 August 2019 - 10:52 AM.

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#17 alnitak22

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 11:27 AM

Neither did I, but I still have never liked the 12NT4.  I own the complete sets of Delos, Delite, NT4 and NT6.  If I had to make a choice I would dump the 12NT4 for either the Delos, or the Delite.   

 

I just have never ever warmed up to the 12mm Nagler Type 4.  IMO its the weakest ocular in the T4 lineup.     

 

One of my all-time favorite eyepieces is the 13mm NT6 which would also make a good substitute for the 12NT4.

 

Eyepiece choices are very subjective and, it also depends on the telescope that you observe with.  Don't take my opinion as gospel, its only another data point along your decision path.  

My point, as I’m sure you know, is that one can read almost anything in an old review and it’s hardly a reason to offer as evidence to someone. Especially without listing the scope or scopes used and objects where ghosting was seen. 



#18 peleuba

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 01:51 PM

My point, as I’m sure you know, is that one can read almost anything in an old review and it’s hardly a reason to offer as evidence to someone. Especially without listing the scope or scopes used and objects where ghosting was seen. 

 

Yes.  And, ghosting - by far - was not the biggest worry with the 12NT4.

 

Moreover, eyepiece reviews are often done by folks who don't have the experience using many different types of telescopes.  I am always skeptical.  Because its a slippery subjective slope, I consider eyepiece reviews in general as data points, not a conclusions.


Edited by peleuba, 21 August 2019 - 01:54 PM.

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#19 vvars

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 02:27 PM

Seems from reviews that t4 12mm isnt the best in series, also saw smthing about more difficult eye positioning/eye relief than in morpheus.

 

@izar i dont intend to barlow it, got some nice ES 6.7mm im totally satisfied with, i want that EP mostly for messier objects etc

 

I suppose Morpheus is good enough quality to use on a future shorter fr scope, mine now is at f/8, maybe in future get a f/5.6 or smthing (or not ? ) :D


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#20 25585

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 02:52 PM

I have a F5 Newtonian which I use with a coma corrector, no problem. Also a F5 500m refractor, for the magnifications I get, Morpheus is OK.

 

Best Morpheus I find are 17.5, 12.5, 9 & 6.


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#21 rowdy388

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 03:01 PM

I really do like my two Morpheus eyepieces, the 9 and 17.5 and they are now favorites. However I found

using them to be a learning curve. I especially had difficulty finding the exit pupil with the flimsy eyecups

they used to come with. Nowadays they seem very natural and I don't even use the eyecups or extender

anymore.


Edited by rowdy388, 21 August 2019 - 03:02 PM.


#22 vvars

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 03:29 PM

@rowdy hows morpheus with ur 12.5" f5? using coma corr?



#23 rowdy388

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:17 PM

@rowdy hows morpheus with ur 12.5" f5? using coma corr?

Two words: Immersive bliss! 


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#24 SteveG

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:50 PM

@rowdy hows morpheus with ur 12.5" f5? using coma corr?

The Morpheus 12.5 is very good and has great eye relief. I compared it to my Nagler 13T6 this summer in my 10" dob with coma corrector. I found the Nagler still had the superior view, but the Morpheus was very close. The Morpheus has much more eye relief than the Nagler, which I really enjoyed. To me the Morpheus is a feather weight, with no balance issues at all. 


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#25 vvars

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:29 AM

What if i upgrade scope in the future to a f/5 or something like that? Will it be a necessity to get a coma corr too or the morheus will be ok without?




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