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Thinking of a C14

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#51 Jeffmar

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Posted 29 August 2019 - 11:07 PM

The scope needs to be in an observatory to cut wind effects. Best of luck.

I would really like to have an observatory. My issue is that my neighborhood is so light polluted it seems to be a waste to build one there. My sister who lives about an hour away from the city has great dark skies and has been telling me we need to build an observatory on her land. I haven't had problems with wind in the places usually go with my telescopes but for that an observatory does make sense.



#52 Rustler46

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 02:25 AM

waytogo.gif  Now all I need is the image intensified eyepiece!  wink.gif

 

Mike

I've been thinking about one as well. But now with my C-11's dew problems conquered via Reflectix, its go-to capabilities on the G-11 mount make for a nice experience. While my 10-inch Dob has DSCs, the eyepiece position is not as user friendly as the SCT. There are trade-offs with different designs.

 

I was considering a C14 about 10 years ago. So I loaded up a tool box with 45 lbs. of tools. One try at hefting that to shoulder height convinced me to get the C-11. Add another 11 years age (now 73), I was considering getting rid of the C-11. Then I watched one of Greg's videos of the easy way to mount a large SCT. I'm so pleased to still have the C-11 in my stable of telescopes. It even has a 115 mm APO on top.

 

Russ


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#53 gnowellsct

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 12:23 PM

C14 is a small portable scope. Best used with a 92mm or 102mm refractor, which solve the narrow field problem. Dew is a problem, I mounted a dew strap internally and that is much more power efficient.

It is the scope most requested by girlfriend and peers. I try to use smaller rigs if moon or weather point to a shorter night. Several dob owners in my club have complained about heavy rocker boxes and moved to GEM mounted scts. The tube (45 lbs) and the battery (50 lbs) are the heaviest items in my rig. Everything on the mount is 20 to 30 lbs.

https://youtu.be/IwVg1M6bURI

I used it for several years on G11 but mounting a refractor required more so I got an AP900.

Almost anything you look at in a c14 will be visible in a c11 but this is besides the point because the majority of objects will also be visible in 100 mm aperture. To duplicate jump from an unaided night pupil to 100mm you would need 200cm or 80 inch scope. Things are easier to see in a c14. But you have to push to extremes like Pal 14 to say well I saw it in 14 but not 11.

Large dobs have aperture advantage but are much less precise to use as tools. You have long single sided truss and the gearing and mechanics have not as a rule caught up to CNC aluminum. I would never tell someone don't get a large dob. But if you're into GEMS and the very precise control and steadiness they can give, if you have a good one, the c14 is a very good choice.

If you can't get a great mount don't get the c14 and be wary of comments such as "you can get away with" or "good enough for visual" in seeking advice on a mount. A c8 orb9.25 on a g11 is a lot more fun than a c14 on a marginal mount. A c14 on a solid mount is a pleasure to use.

Edited by gnowellsct, 07 September 2019 - 12:25 PM.

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#54 Jeffmar

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 04:00 PM

Back about 10 years ago I had my very old C11 mounted on a CG5. It shook and shimmied at every touch. Sometimes I was afraid the whole thing would collapse. A few years later I bought a CGEM which was a pretty good upgrade. The C11 was pretty stable and I could actually do some astrophography. I noticed that Celestron had a mount called the CGEM DX. The main difference was a much heavier tripod and the thicker counterweight shaft. Some people said the DX model had more current going to the motors but no one seemed to have any real proof that it was true. I found a CGE Pro tripod for sale and adapted my CGEM to it. It was an instant stability improvement. After tightening some gears and getting rid of gear lash on my mount I had a quite a decent platform for my C11 plus add-ons. I now have a CGX on my CGE Pro tripod and it works beautifully. If it turns out that it doesn't work well with my C14 I will save my pennies for a while, get a CGX-L mount and stick that on my big tripod. 
 

 

At a star party at Bryce Canyon last year the guy next to me had his loaded up C14 a camera, a focal reducer, and a guide scope on a regular CGEM. He had 11 pound counterweights taking up nearly all of the space on the counter shaft. Later that night when most of the public left he was doing 2 minute exposures, a bit of stacking, and getting some nice images on his computer. There are quite a few people I know of who do astrophotography on mounts that are considered to be too small, especially on Cloudy Nights Forums. They quietly do their hobby and get a lot of satisfaction from their results. Most of the people in my astronomy club can't afford a G11 nor any other higher end mount. They make do with what they have. Really, I get it that a Software Bisque mount would do a better job. I certainly can't argue that fact, but I still have other expenses in my life, like food, gas, insurance, etc. When my rich uncle dies and I inherit millions that UPS truck will be delivering lots of expensive, heavy objects to my house.


Edited by Jeffmar, 07 September 2019 - 04:58 PM.

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#55 Jeffmar

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 02:04 PM

New scope!

 

My C14 arrived today. I wasn't quite prepared for how big it looks. It makes my C11 look kind of wimpy. 

 

It is going to be my primary star party scope.

 

Clouds are coming in today, go figure.

 

I don't know if my wife will be happy with me leaving it in the living room for a week.


Edited by Jeffmar, 16 September 2019 - 02:10 PM.

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#56 choward94002

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 04:44 PM

One other option to consider with a C14 if youve got a pier is to use a hitch mounted winch like this [https://www.amazon.c...e5-d88c33035f32] ... you get a hitch receiver mounted to the pier (I have one cast into the piers), it make putting up/ tearing down a C14 with mount a pretty easy operation (with practice and two garden wagons, takes me about 4 min start to finish to set up, 2 min to tear down per scope)

 

You mentioned a star party, and have a tripod for that ... in that case I would suggest getting a high vertical engine lift like this [https://www.amazon.c...tomotive&sr=1-2], replace the stock wheels with sand buggy wheels [https://www.amazon.com/StoreYourBoard-Replacement-Balloon-Wheels-Inflatable/dp/B077Y38R4Q/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_468_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=EKQW0YEJBC30BSH3ZJF5] and use that to transport the heavy things (mount, OTA) to the setup site ...

 

Using a tripod your biggest problems are going to be the high center of gravity of the mount/ OTA on the tripod and the difficulty in jockying things around in the near dark getting things put together safely.  The cost of the engine lift and such may seem high, but compared to the cost of the OTA and mount it's well worth it ... 

 

Something to consider!


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#57 Jeffmar

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 06:00 PM

When I put my new C14 on my mount today I was a little paranoid about how big the scope is and how cumbersome it will be. What I found was it was more difficult dealing with my C11 but not nearly as bad as I thought. I am fairly fit and tall so for me it was okay. If there is an incentive to keep exercising this is a pretty good one. I have had back issues in the past so I am aware of how hard it can be to lift things with the center of mass far away from my body. The lift you are talking about could be an option if my back gets squirrely again.

I tried loading my big scope with the stool method and it is pretty slick. It is a little slower but it takes away the fear of tripping with a big scope on my shoulder.



#58 Paul Hyndman

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 06:18 PM

When I put my new C14 on my mount today I was a little paranoid about how big the scope is and how cumbersome it will be. What I found was it was more difficult dealing with my C11 but not nearly as bad as I thought. I am fairly fit and tall so for me it was okay. If there is an incentive to keep exercising this is a pretty good one. I have had back issues in the past so I am aware of how hard it can be to lift things with the center of mass far away from my body. The lift you are talking about could be an option if my back gets squirrely again.

I tried loading my big scope with the stool method and it is pretty slick. It is a little slower but it takes away the fear of tripping with a big scope on my shoulder.

 

 

I've been thinking about one as well. But now with my C-11's dew problems conquered via Reflectix, its go-to capabilities on the G-11 mount make for a nice experience. While my 10-inch Dob has DSCs, the eyepiece position is not as user friendly as the SCT. There are trade-offs with different designs.

 

I was considering a C14 about 10 years ago. So I loaded up a tool box with 45 lbs. of tools. One try at hefting that to shoulder height convinced me to get the C-11. Add another 11 years age (now 73), I was considering getting rid of the C-11. Then I watched one of Greg's videos of the easy way to mount a large SCT. I'm so pleased to still have the C-11 in my stable of telescopes. It even has a 115 mm APO on top.

 

Russ

Congrats on the new setup, Jeff!

 

As Russ pointed out, Greg's method is a winner. My smaller/lighter 10" AP Mak-Cass is near my schlep limit (geezer), so easier and safer methods are always appreciated


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#59 Jeffmar

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 04:03 PM

I got my C14 Monday. It is a beast. I tried it out last night at a dark site. When I finally got it collimated I found out how good it was. Everything is bigger, brighter, and more detailed, except when the scope isn't cooled down enough. So far I love it.yay.gif

I have a few more details mentioned in the Post A Picture Of Your Cat thread.


Edited by Jeffmar, 18 September 2019 - 04:05 PM.

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#60 jwheel

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 09:51 AM

Welcome to the club!



#61 scopelover

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 12:48 PM

Yes the C14 is a rather heavy lift onto my the old fork mounted system ..... Good to stay in shape at almost age 60 however !!!

 

I've added and modified my scope using a Meade MEGA POD mounting ... I bought my Classic '74 C14 without any mounting for its wedge ... thus the purchase of the MEGAPOD legs!! ...

BIG tripod ... sturdy as a ROCK !!!!!



#62 Jeffmar

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 04:49 PM

Last night I had my C14 out again in my back yard. I am starting to notice a few differences between my mounted C11 and C14 scopes. When I first set up my C14 in my living room I pushed on the scope to see the dampening time. It was longer than it was with my C11 mounted but it seemed to be well under 2 seconds. Last night I was tapping the scope while I had a 10mm eyepiece on. A magnification of 391 is quite a bit more than I am used to and there seemed to be more wiggle than I thought there would be. It took around 2 seconds to stop after tapping the eyepiece. Right out of the box the C14 ota with a mounting rail and lens cover weighted 50 pounds on my bathroom scale. That is at least 20 pounds heavier than my C11 not to mention the extra 17 pound counterweight I use with the big scope. I expected a longer vibration time but the longer focal length making it seem worse didn't occur to me. I have my CGX mounted on almost exactly the same tripod as the CGX-L. I have to wonder whether the L model would be any different since they seem to have the same basic structure. Other than a bit extra vibration the CGX seems to handle the big scope quite well. 


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#63 Scott Beith

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:18 PM

 

 

 

My C14 arrived today. I wasn't quite prepared for how big it looks. It makes my C11 look kind of wimpy. 

 

It is going to be my primary star party scope.

 

Clouds are coming in today, go figure.

 

I don't know if my wife will be happy with me leaving it in the living room for a week.

 

Dang that looks good!  You have my retirement dreamscope!  bow.gif waytogo.gif


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#64 Jeffmar

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:12 PM

Dang that looks good!  You have my retirement dreamscope!  bow.gif waytogo.gif

I have wanted one of these big scopes for years. I guess you could say it is my retirement dreamscope since I recently retired. 

 

Good luck with your retirement dreamscope.Dobsonian.gif sct2.png sct.png grin.gif


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#65 Tyson M

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 10:16 PM

I got my C14 Monday. It is a beast. I tried it out last night at a dark site. When I finally got it collimated I found out how good it was. Everything is bigger, brighter, and more detailed, except when the scope isn't cooled down enough. So far I love it.yay.gif

I have a few more details mentioned in the Post A Picture Of Your Cat thread.

How long does it take to cool?  I have always floated around the idea of buying a C14Edge with an accompanied mount- but I bought an very good optically 8" mak instead.  I still would like to look through one some day. 



#66 dr.who

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 11:19 PM

From personal experience you use the TEMPest fan system from Deep Space Products the scope is acceptable for use after about 40 minutes. By acceptable I mean the stars are not flaring so badly and looking like wooly bundles of cotton that it is distracting. Full cooling is usually double that time depending on your local environment.  It is a big mirror and without active cooling you are going to be there for a while. The TEMPest really cuts that time down by quite a bit.



#67 Cali

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 11:35 PM

 

My C14 arrived today.

 

I don't know if my wife will be happy with me leaving it in the living room for a week.

 

So Jeffmar

 

You sleeping in the garage yet?

 

- Cal


Edited by Cali, 21 September 2019 - 11:43 PM.

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#68 Jeffmar

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 02:49 AM

How long does it take to cool?  I have always floated around the idea of buying a C14Edge with an accompanied mount- but I bought an very good optically 8" mak instead.  I still would like to look through one some day. 

It depends on the temperature differential. I had it out Saturday night at a star party and it took about an hour with no fans. Maks aren't known for their speedy cool down times either. So far I haven't found the cool down time much of a burden. I might change my mind this winter. 

 

I can tell you my C14 edge is really fun to look through. I have only had it for 6 days and have used it 4 times already. At the star party I went to there was a 4 inch apo refractor, a 16 inch dob and an 18 inch dob all right next to me. We all really enjoyed going back and forth between scopes to see double stars, star clusters, planets and nebulae. These scopes are like apples, oranges, and tomatoes. All very different and great at different things. I had trouble getting the entire double cluster in my eyepiece but it was perfect on the refractor. M11, M13, M57, M22, and M27 looked phenominal In the C14 but not so good on the refractor. The refractor split the Double Double as nicely as I have ever seen. I didn't know such a small scope could give such beautiful views. The big dobs could handle almost anything. They had nice wide fields of view and had great bright images but were not quite as pinpoint sharp everywhere as the refractor or even the C14. No one brought a mak to the party so we couldn't compare with one of those, but there is always next week.



#69 Jeffmar

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 02:53 AM

So Jeffmar

 

You sleeping in the garage yet?

 

- Cal

I did manage to move my giant living room decoration to the garage fast enough so I wouldn't have to move there with it. Everything is peaceful and good at home again. 

Thanks for asking Cal.


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#70 Cali

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 06:22 AM

I did manage to move my giant living room decoration to the garage fast enough so I wouldn't have to move there with it. Everything is peaceful and good at home again. 

Thanks for asking Cal.

Jeffmar

 

Something tells me that   _the wife_  will be keeping an eye on you.

 

Enjoy, man.

 

- Cal


Edited by Cali, 22 September 2019 - 06:23 AM.

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#71 thesubwaypusher

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Posted Yesterday, 10:48 PM

I would really like to have an observatory. My issue is that my neighborhood is so light polluted it seems to be a waste to build one there. My sister who lives about an hour away from the city has great dark skies and has been telling me we need to build an observatory on her land. I haven't had problems with wind in the places usually go with my telescopes but for that an observatory does make sense.

 

It's not a waste if you have a C-14. It (seemingly) cuts through light pollution and gets you right into open and globular clusters. And I live on the top floor of a NYC apartment where my balcony is still very bright. I just cover myself with a black hood and I'm good to go. At almost 60, I find my 14 easy to heave onto the CGX-L. I just make certain the clamps are open far enough and place it right down and hold it with my shoulder and tighten the knobs when the dovetail slides down to the pen marking. 

 

I don't have problems with wind either. The CGX-L holds that scope like nothing is in the cradle, and moves it around like butter. Funny watching the mount guide my FSQ-85 around the sky. And perfect for the Esprit 150 as well. I should mention that the C-14 always dews up if I bring it to a dark site, even with a dew shield and heater running on high, but never on the balcony even with no shield or heater.

 

Thanks, Chris


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