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Thinking about a 70mm: which ones to add on shortlist?

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#1 Traveler

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 01:08 AM

I am thinking about getting a 70mm binocular.Thinking about a 70mm started a couple of weeks ago, on the La Palma crater at 2400m altitude where i met a 80 year old (!) Austrian gentleman in the middle of the night. He used besides a TSA120, a 15x70mm binocular. He invited me to take some views with his 15 x 70. Although he said it was a not so good instrument, i enjoyed the views a lot and saw things i can never see with my 10x50...and yes i saw immediatley it was not a very good instrument (CA, soft on the edge very stiff focus but light enough to hold in hands for a longer time).

 

Wel, in short: i want one too!

 

I already have a Nikon Monarch 8x42 (general use), a Nikon 10x50 ActionExtreme (astronomy) and for insects the Pentax Papillio 6.5x21...

 

My shortlist till now contains: 

- Nikon 18x70

- Fujinon 15x70

 

Are there any others to consider? For example, what about those APM's like the APM MS 20 x 70 Magnesium ED APO or the APM MS 16x80 Magnesium ED APO.

 

I already own a solid and high tripod which i can use for a 70mm binocular. Budget: max 1600 euro.

 

Hope to read your thoughts.


Edited by Traveler, 25 August 2019 - 01:39 AM.


#2 Mark9473

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 04:23 AM

That's a shortlist of top contenders. I don't think you can choose wrong. My heart says get the Nikon.
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#3 edwincjones

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 04:54 AM

Good options all that you listed

hard to go wrong on any. 

Nikon the best, and most expensive choice.

 

edj


Edited by edwincjones, 25 August 2019 - 04:54 AM.

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#4 MB_PL

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 05:14 AM

If you're based in the US get the Oberwerk BT-70XL-ED. If in Europe - the APM 70 ED BT, but preferably not directly from APM. You'll probably have to wait for a sale to buy the APM within budget. These BTs are definitive 'travel scopes'. Very flexible in terms of magnification/exit pupil and very capable.

#5 ppbb

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 05:31 AM

Why not directly from APM?

#6 edwincjones

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 06:50 AM

If you're based in the US get the Oberwerk BT-70XL-ED. ....

These are listed at $1300 with 45 degrees

 you get EP choices 

 

The Nikon Astrolux are listed at $1800

but one gets (probably) better optics

 

$500 difference , less with added EPs   question.gif

 

edj



#7 MB_PL

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 07:06 AM

I'll rephrase - if in Europe, buy from a dealer in your country who you know has a good return policy and is not abrasive, threatening and arrogant. Buying locally will also lower legal costs, if you have to / decide to sue. Even if you don't have an official dealer in your country, you will most likely find a company that will be willing to 'import' the product you choose.

 

As to my latest and last experience with APM read https://www.cloudyni...-apo/?p=9436539


Edited by MB_PL, 25 August 2019 - 07:10 AM.


#8 ArsMachina

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 07:21 AM

Stay with Nikon, take the 18x70

Or if you have really dark skies, look out for a 10x70

 

Jochen



#9 Erik Bakker

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 08:04 AM

The Fuji'a are not 15x but 16x70 IIRC.

 

The Nikon 18x70 are at the top of my list. Best for deep sky use of any 15-18x70mm binoculars made to date. Mine never fail to wow me on the night sky. Get them while they are still, though scarcely, available.

 

In the Netherlands, where you live, they are in stock here at a reasonable price: € 1.425 including shipping and local taxes.


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#10 paulsky

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 09:36 AM

Could there be a difference in the choice of the model depending on the place of observation?

I mean: under an exceptional sky like La Palma ..., or for black skies that have to travel a series of kilometers / miles, or under a sky usually suburban ... maybe the model to choose is not the same?

An 18x70 Nikon would be preferable to a 70mm binocular with eyepieces at 45º or 90º and ep. interchangeable?
Thanks
Paul



#11 Jitou

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 11:11 AM

I'll rephrase - if in Europe, buy from a dealer in your country who you know has a good return policy and is not abrasive, threatening and arrogant. Buying locally will also lower legal costs, if you have to / decide to sue. Even if you don't have an official dealer in your country, you will most likely find a company that will be willing to 'import' the product you choose.

 

As to my latest and last experience with APM read https://www.cloudyni...-apo/?p=9436539

 

also here  : https://www.cloudyni...d-review/page-8  and here https://www.cloudyni...-apo/?p=9425555

 

I couldn't agree more, we had similar rough experiences reported recently here in french forums. APM has potentially excellent binoculars using ED glass that the old well-established brands on the market don't have but the QC is not up to the minimum required these days. Few years back when the APM 100 ED 45° came out my dad bought a pair. We had a very good experience with APM representative and the bino was a delight straight out of the box.

 

Me too I am considering to buy a pair of 70mm. I had the Fujinon 16x70 FMT-X Polaris in the past they were good for the price they were sold at that time but for double the price now I won't buy them again I will much prefer ED glass for better resolution and clarity. Once my neighbor brought a new pair of Celestron Skymaster 15x70 to compare with the Fujinon on a clear sunny day, I was shocked to see how good the Celestron's were ... or how not so good the Fujinon's ? We don't always "see" the price and reputation looking inside a pair of binocular after all.

 

Maybe this will interest you, thorough reviews of high quality chinese binoculars : http://binocularsky....noc_reviews.php


Edited by Jitou, 25 August 2019 - 01:39 PM.

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#12 Traveler

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 12:07 PM

Thanks guys for so far. Those APM experiences are new for me. In fact I made some good transactions with Markus in the past.

 

 

@Mark: why would your heart choose for the Nikon? 

 

@MB_PL: importing from the states is not something i had in mind.

 

@Erik: pm send.

 

@Paulsky: Any binocular which i know of with prism and interchangeble ep's is too big and heavy for my taste. 

 

@Jitou: i thought these Celestron Skymaster 15x70 has serious QC issues? Thank you for the link. 



#13 Rich V.

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 12:29 PM

The Fuji 16x70 FMT has excellent build quality and QC, a flat field optical design but short eye relief (only 9-10mm effective ER). which, IMO, is its biggest downside.  Noticeable CA on bright objects as it is an achromat. 

 

Nikon 18x70 also has excellent build and QC, a bit wider AFOV, a bit more ER, but doesn't have a flat field design.  CA on bright objects like Fujis.

 

https://www.cloudyni...s/#entry3748366

 

APM MS ED 16x70 has good build ("mil spec" but the possibility of typical Chinese variable QC), flat field every bit as good or a bit better than Fujis, and long 18.5mm effective ER.  Noticeably better CA correction than the above because of the FK61 ED doublet.

 

Other brands of KUO MS non-ED are similar to the MS ED above but are achromats.  A good value.

 

I've had Fuji FMTs for many years but the ER was the sore spot for me.  A couple years ago I got the MS ED 16x70s and the optics and long ER sold me.  I've given the Fuji FMTs to my son and his family because I wasn't using them anymore.

 

A review of the MS, MS ED and FMTs I did when I had all three together:

 

https://www.cloudyni...mt-and-lunt-ms/

 

Rich


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#14 Mr. Bill

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 02:54 PM

I have an excellent sample of the APM 70mm ED 45s that came with the Wellenform certificate.

 

Bought them a couple of years ago directly from APM and had a good experience dealing with Markus so all this unhappiness with QC and APM Germany sales is news to me.

 

Would definitely consider buying from Outdoor Sport Optics here in the US for future purchases of APM products to avoid issues.



#15 jeffmac

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 03:34 PM

If using a tripod, any of the BA8 70mm offerings made by United Kunming Optics I think, will make you happy with the views. They are relatively heavy. I own the Orion 15x70 Resolux and they are very nice. Not quite Fujis or Nikons but pretty close and much less expensive. Oberwerk Ultras are the same binos. There are other brands as well.



#16 Mark9473

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 03:45 PM

@Mark: why would your heart choose for the Nikon?


Just desirability, that's all. A classic with an excellent reputation but at risk of disappearing from the market.
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#17 Albie

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 04:03 PM

I have the Astro Physics 15x70 (Kunming BA8) and consider it to be a pretty decent performer with a nice wide fov .   Even though I enjoy the AP's quite a bit  I still strongly desire the Nikon 18x70's . Part of the desire is to have them along side my E2's , part of it is the slight increase in fov and magnification , part of it is 1/2 pound lighter weight and part of it is better quality/view which apparently isn't leaps and bounds above my AP's. What keeps me from buying one is the cost of ownership, roughly 4 times the cost of my AP's.


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#18 Traveler

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 12:51 PM

 A couple of minutes ago i pressed the buy button for the Nikon 18x70. cool.gif 


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#19 edwincjones

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 01:54 PM

 A couple of minutes ago i pressed the buy button for the Nikon 18x70. cool.gif

I doubt you, or any of us, would be disappointed

 

edj


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