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Failed 1st attempt- The Blue Snowball

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#26 REC

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 09:49 AM

I'm under Bortle 6 skies and have a 120mm achro. I'm thinking I should be able to see the Blue Snowball, but I failed to find it last night. A check with Stellarium showed I wasn't quite looking in the right spot. That's usually the case when I fail to find something. I'll give it another shot and will also soon be heading out to near Bortle 3 skies. When I get in the right spot, will I be able to see it under Bortle 6? It looks to be under magnitude 8, and I've found mag 8 objects.

 

Joe

You need  a nebula filter to see it better. An OIII or a UHC will help.


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#27 jtsenghas

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 07:38 PM

Well, I waited until July of this year to order my OIII filter, a 2" Lumicon Gen 3. I ordered from High Point Scientific. Their ad is here.

 

I received an email several days later that it was on back order with extended lead times expected. Still no word. Does anyone know anything about availability of this particular filter? 



#28 IMB

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 08:52 PM

Well, I waited until July of this year to order my OIII filter, a 2" Lumicon Gen 3. I ordered from High Point Scientific. Their ad is here.

 

I received an email several days later that it was on back order with extended lead times expected. Still no word. Does anyone know anything about availability of this particular filter? 

I'm getting a very good mileage out of my DGM NPB filters. They work well on M42, M8, M57, and the Carina Nebula. You can order them directly from the manufacturer.



#29 jtsenghas

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 09:11 PM

I'm getting a very good mileage out of my DGM NPB filters. They work well on M42, M8, M57, and the Carina Nebula. You can order them directly from the manufacturer.

Yes, I see the prices are the same as they were two years ago. I bought the 2" and 1.25" DGM NPB with gift money together at the discount, and made a gift of the smaller one for my brother-in-law. 

 

Now I need to be patient about the Lumicon Gen 3 OIII becoming available again. I did have a chance to borrow one at a star party and was suitably impressed. 



#30 Chesterguy1

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 01:46 PM

While I don't disagree with the value of nebula filters, I have seen the Blue Snowball, Little Gem, and Saturn nebulas unfiltered with my 120mm within the last week.  Same goes for my 8", but of course, they were considerably easier.

 

Chesterguy


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#31 Astro-Master

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 01:24 AM

These very bright planetary nebulae are THE prime targets for maximum magnification for any observer not limited to lunar and planetary observing by poor LP conditions. In fact I find much higher magnifications more useful for PN observing than for planetary observing.

Magnification over 1000x is useful from a good site in good conditions, revealing detail unseen at large exit pupils and sometimes exposing new perspectives on a PN.

Try exit pupils in the 0.5 - 0.7 range and see what you think. Then double the magnification with your Barlow and look carefully again. I expect you'll be surprised. Your long-ish focal ratio refractor should work very well at those levels. Some high mag observing is facilitated by large and medium-large apertures. PN are not those.

I totally agree PN take high power better than an other DSO's.  About three years ago four club members and I viewed the Blue Snowball at 1,450x on  night with excellent seeing from the SDAA club site using John Kuhl's 20" Zambuto Starmaster.  We were using my Televue 2x Big Barlow and a Televue 3-6 Zoom.  Its to bad we didn't have a 2.5mm Nagler for a power of 1,748x because the image was still clear and sharp 1,450x.

 

John was so impressed with the view he ordered a Televue Big Barlow for himself for next time.



#32 Sky_LO

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:22 AM

1450 X - Holy Guacamole !!



#33 jtsenghas

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:23 AM

Indeed! Even with  premium 20" that's 72.5x inches of aperture



#34 azure1961p

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 11:00 AM

With tiny planetaries , ie; smaller than say, M57 and such is once you locate your first one thats similar to a star in appearance you find the others easier.  I got NGC6543 at 31x the other night with a little C90.  It was obvious right away and I even forgot what the starfield looked like. But, the very first time I looked I had to be careful with my 8" at 70x.  This was THE very first time I was looking for a small planetary - smaller than say, M57, 97 and so on.  

 

Once I got the look of the low power pseudo star it's just a lot easier because you now have a search image stored for your low power oculars.

 

Oh, it's worth the effort.  A real beauty and it takes power real well.

 

Pete


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#35 Astro-Master

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 12:34 PM

Indeed! Even with  premium 20" that's 72.5x inches of aperture

Every couple of years I've been lucky to experience excellent seeing in Southern California on a moonless night from the SDAA Club site, or the Laguna Mountains, or the Anza Borrego Desert.  Several years ago I got the ES100* 5.5mm eyepiece for Christmas.  The next month in the desert I got the chance to test it on a night of excellent seeing.

 

I was looking at the Eskimo Nebula at 370x and kept increasing the power using the Televue 2x Big Barlow and 5 inches of extension tubes between the eyepiece and the barlow for a power of 1,350x with a clear view in my 18" Obsession.  I called for the other  guys to take a look, everyone was amazed at the view.  At that power the nebula appeared resolved into a patchwork of little clouds.  Those are the nights you remember forever!!


Edited by Astro-Master, 06 September 2019 - 01:08 PM.

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#36 BGazing

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:21 PM

Nice topic. So far for me Magic Carpet (7027) was a dud in 8 inches, even under dark skies...am I missing something. I tend not to combine mucho magnification with OIII, as the result is too dim.



#37 Astrojensen

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:28 PM

Nice topic. So far for me Magic Carpet (7027) was a dud in 8 inches, even under dark skies...am I missing something. I tend not to combine mucho magnification with OIII, as the result is too dim.

It might not respond well to an O-III filter. I don't think I've ever used one on NGC 7027. It is SUPER BRIGHT without one and will take the most ridiculous magnifications. I've used over 800x on it with a 4" TMB apochromat some years ago. It takes 420x on my 63mm Zeiss Telemator without problems. And it is NOT FAINT at those magnifications! 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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#38 BGazing

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:32 PM

It might not respond well to an O-III filter. I don't think I've ever used one on NGC 7027. It is SUPER BRIGHT without one and will take the most ridiculous magnifications. I've used over 800x on it with a 4" TMB apochromat some years ago. It takes 420x on my 63mm Zeiss Telemator without problems. And it is NOT FAINT at those magnifications! 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

Well, I made a tour of planetaries this weekend, sans OIII and the Magic Carpet (if indeed my Goto did its job) was not what I have expected. Will try again...



#39 Astrojensen

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 02:49 PM

Well, I made a tour of planetaries this weekend, sans OIII and the Magic Carpet (if indeed my Goto did its job) was not what I have expected. Will try again...

Well, what *did* you expect? 

 

NGC 7027 is very small and very bright. It will look completely stellar at anything under 100x, more or less. It is about the size of Mars at an aphelic opposition... Unless you look at it with sufficient (very high) magnification, you won't see any details at all - or indeed even notice it as anything else than a star of about mag. 8. 

 

There's another planetary nebula in Cygnus, NGC 7026, which is much larger and much fainter. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark



#40 IMB

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 04:22 PM

<...> NGC 7027 is very small and very bright. It will look completely stellar at anything under 100x, more or less. <...>

Not quite. I had my first observation of NGC 7027 on Aug. 29. While NGC 7027 is indeed very small and very bright, even under 30x its appearance made it stand out from the surrounding stars. Its brightness and apparent dimensions were going up and down on a short time scale, as it were blinking. The actual stars stayed perfectly still. It was immediately obvious which object in the field of view was not a star. I observed the same phenomenon with other bright planetaries: NGC 6543, NGC 7662, NGC 6818.



#41 Astrojensen

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 01:48 AM

Not quite. I had my first observation of NGC 7027 on Aug. 29. While NGC 7027 is indeed very small and very bright, even under 30x its appearance made it stand out from the surrounding stars. Its brightness and apparent dimensions were going up and down on a short time scale, as it were blinking. The actual stars stayed perfectly still. It was immediately obvious which object in the field of view was not a star. I observed the same phenomenon with other bright planetaries: NGC 6543, NGC 7662, NGC 6818.

You're absolutely right, but not everyone is familiar with this and I'm actually not sure that everyone notices it or can even see it, hence my comment. I'm quite sure it also depends on the aperture used, though I don't think anyone has ever researched this. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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#42 BGazing

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 02:11 AM

Well, what *did* you expect? 

 

NGC 7027 is very small and very bright. It will look completely stellar at anything under 100x, more or less. It is about the size of Mars at an aphelic opposition... Unless you look at it with sufficient (very high) magnification, you won't see any details at all - or indeed even notice it as anything else than a star of about mag. 8. 

 

There's another planetary nebula in Cygnus, NGC 7026, which is much larger and much fainter. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

I made no notes but I am sure I have used a lot of magnification. Perhaps too much. Will try again (hopefully next new Moon). Thanks for the tips, as always.



#43 flt158

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:45 AM

Hello, Joe (Frisky). 

 

Find the star 13 Andromedae, which is of 5.7 magnitude, in your finder scope. 

NGC 7662 is right next to it. 

 

I have observed many times with my William Optics 158 mm apochromatic refractor. 

100X is sufficient, But as many people have already suggested to you on Cloudy Nights, do go higher than that. 

 

Clear skies from Aubrey. 


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#44 Chesterguy1

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:34 PM

Nice list! I'll soon be heading back to darker skies (close to Bortle 3 but still 4) and am going to take charts of all those you and others listed and see what I can find. 

 

Joe

Joe:

 

No doubt a dark site will help. Even from my Bortle 5 with SQM-L readings around 20.2 to 20.3 I was able to find The Little Gem-NGC 6818 and the Saturn Nebula—NGC 7009 with my 90mm scope last night. The Saturn was easier, but both were clearly PNs at 101X and the Saturn had some dimension and structure at 198X. Of course they look nothing like in m6 15”, but were much more satisfying to find.

 

Chesterguy


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#45 kfiscus

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Posted 25 September 2019 - 10:11 PM

Frisky, you should find someone with an NPB or O-III that they'd let you use...


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#46 Miranda2525

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 12:16 PM

I'm under Bortle 6 skies and have a 120mm achro. I'm thinking I should be able to see the Blue Snowball, but I failed to find it last night. A check with Stellarium showed I wasn't quite looking in the right spot. That's usually the case when I fail to find something. I'll give it another shot and will also soon be heading out to near Bortle 3 skies. When I get in the right spot, will I be able to see it under Bortle 6? It looks to be under magnitude 8, and I've found mag 8 objects.

 

Joe

My search plan for this:

 

Start with low power if you are star hopping, or getting to the field. Bump up the power to at least 100-200x to get a really nice view of it. A nebular filter is not necessary to see this one as it it fairly bright. I use a 10 inch Orion XTi.

 

This link and tip below should help you.

https://www.learnast...ula---deep.html


Edited by Miranda2525, 28 September 2019 - 12:17 PM.

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#47 Miranda2525

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 12:23 PM

These very bright planetary nebulae are THE prime targets for maximum magnification for any observer not limited to lunar and planetary observing by poor LP conditions. In fact I find much higher magnifications more useful for PN observing than for planetary observing.

Magnification over 1000x is useful from a good site in good conditions, revealing detail unseen at large exit pupils and sometimes exposing new perspectives on a PN.

Try exit pupils in the 0.5 - 0.7 range and see what you think. Then double the magnification with your Barlow and look carefully again. I expect you'll be surprised. Your long-ish focal ratio refractor should work very well at those levels. Some high mag observing is facilitated by large and medium-large apertures. PN are not those.

IME, magnification of 1000x is impractical, when using my 10" XTi. Images just get far too soft. 400x maximum is more practical even in excellent seeing. However, if the aperture is a lot bigger, like a 20" or more, 1000x may be do-able in excellent seeing.


Edited by Miranda2525, 28 September 2019 - 12:25 PM.


#48 Inkswitch

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 02:07 PM

IME, magnification of 1000x is impractical, when using my 10" XTi. Images just get far too soft. 400x maximum is more practical even in excellent seeing. However, if the aperture is a lot bigger, like a 20" or more, 1000x may be do-able in excellent seeing.

I used to concur with this and I still often find a soft view but sometimes it's not soft.  Those are magic nights and I have not yet determined a method to be sure the view won't be soft except to try.  I had 750X, which is "high", equivalent to a 2mm EP, in my system the other night.  I track manually and was able to critically observe and estimate the size of the unresolved center of a globular.


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#49 Astrojensen

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Posted 28 September 2019 - 04:54 PM

IME, magnification of 1000x is impractical, when using my 10" XTi. Images just get far too soft. 400x maximum is more practical even in excellent seeing. However, if the aperture is a lot bigger, like a 20" or more, 1000x may be do-able in excellent seeing.

I've used close to 1,000x on my 4" f/11 ED on NGC 6543. 

 

Yesterday, Carlos Flores (Corcaroli78) and I, who are both attending a star party in Denmark, observed NGC 7662 at 536x with my 63mm Zeiss Telemator (3x barlow and 4.7mm ES82) and could both see the darker center.

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


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#50 alexantos

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 10:48 PM

Hey Frisky, check out how I see it on my 8" F/6 Dob under Bortle 8 skies.

I have the help of an Azimuth Circle and an Altitude scale to find my way into the heavens, otherwise it would take forever to find these fuzzies.

And how I wish I had those Bortle 3 skies just 10 miles out...

 

Take care.


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