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APM TMB 8" F/9 Achromat

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#1 asaint

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 06:35 AM

APM TMB 8" F/9 Achromat

#2 Mike28

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 07:44 AM

Wow! That is a big ACHRO! I am sure Karl would have paid much more if he purchased a 8" APO :grin: Using a V-Block filter would definately help on the color. I agree with Karl that refractors do gather more light than reflectors. I see the difference with my 127 ACHRO compared with my NS11(standard coatings). I would like to hear from others on how well the Russian optics are today. That was a great article Karl! :waytogo:

#3 nkoiza

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 09:53 AM

Karl,

I enjoyed reading your report -- one of the most interesting reviews I have read in recent months.

Enjoy your new telescope, which sounds as though it's a great performer.

Nick

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#4 mistyridge

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 11:09 AM

Great review :waytogo: :goodjob:

#5 Refractor6

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 11:29 AM

As already noted :coolnod:. Enjoy all the goodies coming up in the Summer sky Karl.


---------------

Stan

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#6 RRaubach

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 12:53 PM

A great report! I'm very happy for you, and I hope that you continue to enjoy your scope.

#7 galaxyman

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 03:55 PM

A great report! I'm very happy for you, and I hope that you continue to enjoy your scope.


Thanks

I know your after Pal 6, and I think you may have a shot at it with your 8".

As you can see these BIG guys both Achro and Apo are terrific DSO scopes, so I wouldn't be surprised if you nailed that faint glob.

I have some challeges in the galaxy and planetary nebula realm in the 8", that hopefully I will be able to go after next week or the following.

Will of course post in the deep sky area of Cloudy Nights.

Karl

22" f/4.5 Dob
12.5" F/4.8 Dob
8" f/9 refractor
4.7" F/5 Refractor

#8 121601

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 04:46 PM

APM TMB 8" F/9 Achromat


In the future, it would be particularly interesting to find out if this scope would clearly reveal the dust lane of 891. This is usually a challenge for good 8" Newtonians and even 12-13" instruments.

It's very rare that I've seen detailed visual observing reports on galaxies from refractor users, even from owners of TEC 140 scopes and similar APO's.

Under dark skies, I've viewed some well known DSOs such as the Swan Nebula, etc. through 6" APOs but the views through a 12.5" Zambuto easily blew away the 6" views, even under Suburban skies. Perhaps, an 8" refractor is a "magic number" for a refractor for achieving comparable views of DSOs through a refractor.

Renato

#9 Mr. Bill

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Posted 17 June 2006 - 08:08 PM

I'm lusting after the 8 inch f/6.....
:help:

#10 reflector74

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 11:33 AM

APM TMB 8" F/9 Achromat


In the future, it would be particularly interesting to find out if this scope would clearly reveal the dust lane of 891. This is usually a challenge for good 8" Newtonians and even 12-13" instruments.

It's very rare that I've seen detailed visual observing reports on galaxies from refractor users, even from owners of TEC 140 scopes and similar APO's.

Under dark skies, I've viewed some well known DSOs such as the Swan Nebula, etc. through 6" APOs but the views through a 12.5" Zambuto easily blew away the 6" views, even under Suburban skies. Perhaps, an 8" refractor is a "magic number" for a refractor for achieving comparable views of DSOs through a refractor.

Renato


Refractors are not magic scopes. And I should hope a 12.5" would blow any 6" out of the water..

The dust lane in question is clearly visible in my 8" Newtonian dob. Optical quality rules regardless of telescope design. Practicality to me is an issue to consider.



#11 galaxyman

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 12:46 PM

APM TMB 8" F/9 Achromat


In the future, it would be particularly interesting to find out if this scope would clearly reveal the dust lane of 891. This is usually a challenge for good 8" Newtonians and even 12-13" instruments.

It's very rare that I've seen detailed visual observing reports on galaxies from refractor users, even from owners of TEC 140 scopes and similar APO's.

Under dark skies, I've viewed some well known DSOs such as the Swan Nebula, etc. through 6" APOs but the views through a 12.5" Zambuto easily blew away the 6" views, even under Suburban skies. Perhaps, an 8" refractor is a "magic number" for a refractor for achieving comparable views of DSOs through a refractor.

Renato


Refractors are not magic scopes. And I should hope a 12.5" would blow any 6" out of the water..

The dust lane in question is clearly visible in my 8" Newtonian dob. I don't know what you are talking about. Optical quality rules regardless of telescope design. Practicality to me is an issue to consider.

My opinion is that giant refractors like these are a burden for several reasons:

- They are enormous and require the most enormous of mounts

- Refractors are expensive per inch of aperture in general (ridiculously expensive in that aperture class)

- I hate false color and this being an achromat, will have plenty of intrusive color at that focal ratio and aperture

- In my opinion, there would be no need for a refractor of this size for deep sky if I owned a 22" dob! 8" IS still 8" no matter how you put it. It just seems so incredibly impractical to me.



My honest 2 cents.


Optical systems are different and do give a different perspective on any object. Much of how the telescope provides the eye with information allows detail to be perceived.

In the case of this large refractor it gave me the advantage as being a well seasoned observer to see detail that other scopes of similar size would not produce or as easy.

Your right my 22" dob with Swayze optics give spectacular views of the deep sky. In particular going real deep as galaxies from Ugc, Mcg, Ic, and Abell clusters catalogs and so on.

But on views of brighter objects from the Messier and Ngc catalogs the 8" refractor gave a prettier view as in the case of the Ring nebula in comparing views with a 16" dob. The much higher contrast and clarity view of the large refractor was more pleasing at similar magnification.

Your also wrong about plenty of CA. It was much less then what I thought it could have been. Very good optical design and quality helps.



Karl

22" f/4.5 Dob
12.5" F/4.8 Dob
8" f/9 refractor
4.7" F/5 Refractor

#12 spaceydee

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 02:26 PM

A gentle reminder here to please stay on topic. We are here to discuss the 8" TMB F/9 Achro - and remain courteous.

#13 galaxyman

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 02:49 PM

A gentle reminder here to please stay on topic. We are here to discuss the 8" TMB F/9 Achro - and remain courteous.


Dee, your exactly right with that, so I deleted my personal attack. Thanks for cooling me down.

I know what this scope can do. Hopefully others from my review will get an idea if they are interested in acquiring such a scope or something like it.


Karl

22" f/4.5 Dob
12.5" F/4.8 Dob
8" f/9 refractor
4.7" F/5 Refractor

#14 spaceydee

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 03:15 PM

Exactly! I for one do wish I had the ability to have an 8" refractor myself. In my current living situation, I'm not sure I could deal with even a 6". Some day I would love to have a permanent set up with a large refractor though.

#15 Alvin Huey

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 03:49 PM

I'm also lusting for a big refractor...but this have to happen after I complete building the 32" f/3.3 to 3.6 reflector to replace the 30" f/4.3 StarMaster. :grin:

I love views through a huge refractor, back in the day, I viewed through a long 8" refractor, I think was a f/12 or so. Contrast is phenomenal.

Sorry for being ignorant, what does one of these babies go for? I can't imaging it be that expensive as it is a acho not an apo. 10k?

#16 Serenity Now

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 04:25 PM

I'm lusting after the 8 inch f/6.....
:help:


After reading the review, that makes two of us Bill.
WTG Markus Ludes :bow:

#17 ForgottenMObject

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 04:57 PM

Wow - that photo at the beginning is an eye-opener! It looks like the people all shrank! That is a BIG refractor!

Great review and it is very interesting to read about an 8" refractor, something that many folks would love to own, I am sure.

#18 reflector74

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 11:17 PM

A gentle reminder here to please stay on topic. We are here to discuss the 8" TMB F/9 Achro - and remain courteous.


Dee, your exactly right with that, so I deleted my personal attack. Thanks for cooling me down.

I know what this scope can do. Hopefully others from my review will get an idea if they are interested in acquiring such a scope or something like it.


Karl

22" f/4.5 Dob
12.5" F/4.8 Dob
8" f/9 refractor
4.7" F/5 Refractor




Dear Karl,

I would only hope to see the marvelous views though that "thing" some day.

May God bless. I'm sure He has already! Enjoy this magnificent scope! I sit here and wonder, aside from my doubts...

Take care.

#19 reflector74

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 11:20 PM

APM TMB 8" F/9 Achromat


In the future, it would be particularly interesting to find out if this scope would clearly reveal the dust lane of 891. This is usually a challenge for good 8" Newtonians and even 12-13" instruments.

It's very rare that I've seen detailed visual observing reports on galaxies from refractor users, even from owners of TEC 140 scopes and similar APO's.

Under dark skies, I've viewed some well known DSOs such as the Swan Nebula, etc. through 6" APOs but the views through a 12.5" Zambuto easily blew away the 6" views, even under Suburban skies. Perhaps, an 8" refractor is a "magic number" for a refractor for achieving comparable views of DSOs through a refractor.

Renato


Refractors are not magic scopes. And I should hope a 12.5" would blow any 6" out of the water..

The dust lane in question is clearly visible in my 8" Newtonian dob. I don't know what you are talking about. Optical quality rules regardless of telescope design. Practicality to me is an issue to consider.

My opinion is that giant refractors like these are a burden for several reasons:

- They are enormous and require the most enormous of mounts

- Refractors are expensive per inch of aperture in general (ridiculously expensive in that aperture class)

- I hate false color and this being an achromat, will have plenty of intrusive color at that focal ratio and aperture

- In my opinion, there would be no need for a refractor of this size for deep sky if I owned a 22" dob! 8" IS still 8" no matter how you put it. It just seems so incredibly impractical to me.



My honest 2 cents.


Optical systems are different and do give a different perspective on any object. Much of how the telescope provides the eye with information allows detail to be perceived.

In the case of this large refractor it gave me the advantage as being a well seasoned observer to see detail that other scopes of similar size would not produce or as easy.

Your right my 22" dob with Swayze optics give spectacular views of the deep sky. In particular going real deep as galaxies from Ugc, Mcg, Ic, and Abell clusters catalogs and so on.

But on views of brighter objects from the Messier and Ngc catalogs the 8" refractor gave a prettier view as in the case of the Ring nebula in comparing views with a 16" dob. The much higher contrast and clarity view of the large refractor was more pleasing at similar magnification.

Your also wrong about plenty of CA. It was much less then what I thought it could have been. Very good optical design and quality helps.



Karl

22" f/4.5 Dob
12.5" F/4.8 Dob
8" f/9 refractor
4.7" F/5 Refractor



My apologies for misjudgements on the HUGE refractor!

I wish!

#20 spaceydee

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 11:30 PM

This is not the place for reflectors vs refractor discussions. Lets get back on topic.


dee - your friendly neighborhood moderator.

#21 galaxyman

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Posted 18 June 2006 - 11:42 PM

Exactly! I for one do wish I had the ability to have an 8" refractor myself. In my current living situation, I'm not sure I could deal with even a 6". Some day I would love to have a permanent set up with a large refractor though.


You just keep yourself saying I want one, and you'll get it.

My wish of owning a large dob and large refractor have come to fruition.

Goals are always something to strive for, no matter how big or far off they seem.


Karl

22" f/4.5 Dob
12.5" F/4.8 Dob
8" f/9 refractor
4.7" F/5 Refractor

#22 LV_Valdis

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 08:07 AM

This one is definetly big, but after I searched a bit trying to find where is the limit for comercialy available refractors, I stumbled acros this one http://web26.h137151...fo.php?id=39904
530mm of APO!!! :bigshock: Some 300kilo$ and a year or two later and it's rady to go (but without the mount, the mount and GoTo is another 300kilo$). But it's definetly not one of the grab&go types, except you have a 18wheeler truck and some cranes assisting by the setup ;).

#23 Mike28

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 08:28 AM

Exactly! I for one do wish I had the ability to have an 8" refractor myself. In my current living situation, I'm not sure I could deal with even a 6". Some day I would love to have a permanent set up with a large refractor though.


You just keep yourself saying I want one, and you'll get it.

My wish of owning a large dob and large refractor have come to fruition.

Goals are always something to strive for, no matter how big or far off they seem.


Karl

22" f/4.5 Dob
12.5" F/4.8 Dob
8" f/9 refractor
4.7" F/5 Refractor


In this hobby attaining the ultimate scope can be a slow process and is never ending. Something new always comes out to distract us :lol: My goal of a 6" refractor is currently my 'ultimate' scope. Any bigger it becomes a 2man operation when going out into the field to setup. If I owned my own property and could setup a permanent mount that would be different. so I go as large a refractor as I can handle alone like a 150-160 or even upto 180mm that can be setup by onself, in the field with ease. My choice is the TOA-150. It's going on 9 months since I ordered it and the wait is almost over. It is smaller than the 8" but you can pump up the power on it and if its like its little brother (Toa-130) I think I will be happy with this but of course I would love to own a 8" refractor someday. For now I have to be practical. ;)

#24 rwiederrich

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 01:03 PM

This is not the place for reflectors vs refractor discussions. Lets get back on topic.


dee - your friendly neighborhood moderator.


Since our FNMO has spoken we need to look at this like the simple thing that it is. A review. But as all reviews go, there is a bit of comparison being done, cuz that is how we determine visual value. By comparison to what we know. And if that comes from what we know our reflectod provides, then is not that Refl/Refr comperison allowable?

If everyone simply typed in, *good review*, without their own personal perceptions, that may be scewed to another system, being introduced, would we not be limited in our own perceptions of the review??

I loved the review, and if it is propped up next to another for comparison, that doesn't detract from the initial review, because it is all personal perception anyway.

Rob(what in the world am I saying???) :smirk:
Oh..I luved the review. :jump: and follow the rules.. :jump:

#25 spaceydee

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Posted 19 June 2006 - 01:31 PM

You have a point. However I do not want this thread to degenerate into refractor or reflector bashing so to speak. Constructive comparisons are fine ok??
:)


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