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Eyepieces with good eye relief

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#1 Distortion78

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 12:37 AM

Have a few Celestron X-Cel eyepieces and enjoy how big the view is. Anyone have similar eyepieces with better optics? Have an ES 82 degree and a TV nagler, just find them harder to view through. 


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#2 SeattleScott

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 12:47 AM

How fast is your scope? What is your budget? Would you consider used?

Vixen SLV are good quality. Hyperion or Stratus will give you a wider FOV but not as well corrected in fast scopes. Delos, Delite or XW are wide and well corrected, and expensive. So those are kind of the three tiers, long ER and quality, long ER and wide, or long ER and wide and premium quality.

X-Cel-$
SLV-$$
Hyperion/Stratus, etc.-$$
Used Radian, LVW-$$
Delite etc.-$$$
Explore Scientific 92’s-$$$$

Scott

Edited by SeattleScott, 03 September 2019 - 12:55 AM.

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#3 25585

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 01:00 AM

You would find Baader Morpheus eyepieces comfortable. They are not cheap, but have 76° AFOV, and cost less than Naglers, with good optical performance.  


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#4 StarryHill

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 01:05 AM

Have a few Celestron X-Cel eyepieces and enjoy how big the view is. Anyone have similar eyepieces with better optics? Have an ES 82 degree and a TV nagler, just find them harder to view through. 

 

While most TV Naglers have no more than 12mm of eye relief, there a a few with more. For example, the N22mm has 19mm and is one of the most comfortable (and expensive) eyepieces I've ever used.

 

SeattleScott already mentioned Vixens SLV, Hyperion/Stratus, Delos and Delite -- I've used all but the SLV and can 2nd his recommendations. There's one more that is a favorite of mine and I can recommend -- Morpheus. It’s made by the same company as the Hyperion. It has a greater FOV than the others, excellent sharpness and priced well for what you get when compared to the others.


Edited by StarryHill, 03 September 2019 - 02:18 AM.


#5 bridgman

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 04:25 AM

I have trouble using most really-wide-field eyepieces and find that somewhere around 65-70 degrees plus long eye relief is pretty much ideal, with any wider field going unused. I have an 11mm ES82 sitting unused because the eye relief is just a bit too short for me to use it comfortably.

 

The one exception is the 22 Nagler, as StarryHill just mentioned... pretty much the only EP so far where I can view the entire really-wide-field comfortably.

 

... the N22mm has 19mm and is one of the most comfortable (and expensive) eyepieces I've ever used.

Sounds like you also need longer eye relief than most to be comfortable.

 

Recently picked up a 9mm Morpheus and a bit on the fence about it. Initial impression is that in order to see the entire 76 degree field I need to get my eye uncomfortably close, but if I ignore a bit of the outer field and treat it like a 65-70 degree EP it seems pretty good. I don't particularly like the 1.25" / 2" setup but if I can convince myself that it's just clever design rather than making the EP larger than it needs to be I'll probably get over that.

 

So far the 12mm Delos is pretty much the perfect eyepiece for my eyes... expensive but an absolute joy to use (or even to just hold and admire smile.gif). I am also very happy with my 5mm Radian. 

 

I have not used the Celestron X-Cel eyepieces but based on specs and reviews I think I would like them. 


Edited by bridgman, 03 September 2019 - 04:35 AM.

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#6 25585

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 08:27 AM

I find the Orion LHD LER 80°s I have, 14 & 20, comfortable. The 20 is easier for eye placement thsn a 22T4, 

and the 14 better still, but now Morpheus is comfier, though both Orions get used as well when keeping to 2 inch size.



#7 jaraxx

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 08:44 AM

I'm a big fan of the "Morphi"( having four of them). They seem to be a sweet spot in terms of quality / ease of use / price. While not cheap they are competitive with eyepieces costing a lot more.

I find the ES 24 68° to be comfortable and a good eyepiece.

The TV 40mm Plossl has lots of eye relief, as does the 32. I have the 40mm and I would almost say it's easier to use if wearing glasses (I think there is a 50mm TV Plossl, but have never seen it.)

Last year I looked thru some Siebert Optics eyepieces and thought they provided a pretty good window with decent correction and were very comfortable. I can't remember which model or which magnification they were, sorry.


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#8 izar187

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 10:42 AM

Have a few Celestron X-Cel eyepieces and enjoy how big the view is. Anyone have similar eyepieces with better optics? Have an ES 82 degree and a TV nagler, just find them harder to view through. 

There are similar spec'd ep's available.

In and around these will be https://www.astronom...gm-dual-ed.html

 

and https://www.astronom...5000-hd-60.html

 

But likely better optics so to speak, will be in those higher price ranges.

Like those already suggested.

I like these:

https://www.sieberto...eces-ultra.html



#9 bridgman

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 11:50 AM

Have a few Celestron X-Cel eyepieces and enjoy how big the view is. Anyone have similar eyepieces with better optics? Have an ES 82 degree and a TV nagler, just find them harder to view through. 

BTW are your eyepieces the current X-Cel LX version or the older X-Cel ? As far as I can see the older versions had 20mm eye relief while the newer ones are rated at 16mm ER.

 

It's possible that they are the same in practice - the LX eyepieces have a flat top so you don't lose any ER - don't remember what the older ones look like.

 

Anyways, the answers might differ depending on whether you really need 20mm for comfortable viewing (I pretty much do) or whether 16mm is sufficient.


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#10 db2005

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 12:16 PM

+1 for the Vixen SLVs

 

I find Vixen SLVs as sharp and contrasty on-axis as the very, very best eyepieces I've owned (TV Delos, Pentax XW), but they only offer around 50 degrees afov and the effective eye relief is not 20 mm but a bit less (feels like maybe ~17 mm). Still great for using with eyeglasses though. I've read reports that the SLVs under some circumstances may have a problem with internal reflections due to a shiny spacer ring, but so far I haven't noticed this problem in my own SLVs. When I'm mulling about the relatively narrow field of view I try to think of the SLVs as wider-field orthoscopics with generous eye relief... I think they are that good.

 

The most comfortable eyepieces I've tried are the Pentax XWs, especially the 10 mm and 7 mm are real gems offering 20 mm eye relief and 70 degrees afov. My TV Delos also has amazing optics. Comparing the two would be like splitting hairs. I normally use the XWs for outreach and have never me anyone who couldn't look through them - they are that easy and comfortable to use.

 

I used to own a couple of Hyperion's (21 mm and 8 mm). While comfortable to use I wasn't overly impressed with performance even in slower scopes; in fast scopes they were plagued by severe off-axis aberrations and even in slower scopes it found sharpness, contrast and light scatter control somewhat lacking in comparison with simpler eyepieces. 


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#11 25585

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 01:17 PM

I'm a big fan of the "Morphi"( having four of them). They seem to be a sweet spot in terms of quality / ease of use / price. While not cheap they are competitive with eyepieces costing a lot more.

I find the ES 24 68° to be comfortable and a good eyepiece.

The TV 40mm Plossl has lots of eye relief, as does the 32. I have the 40mm and I would almost say it's easier to use if wearing glasses (I think there is a 50mm TV Plossl, but have never seen it.)

Last year I looked thru some Siebert Optics eyepieces and thought they provided a pretty good window with decent correction and were very comfortable. I can't remember which model or which magnification they were, sorry.

TV 40mm and 55mm Plossls are great for eye relief wearing glasses, easy exit pupil access & retention. Their 32mm is disappointing by comparison, I sold my 32 and bought a 35mm Baader Eudiascopic instead, much better, same good performance, a Japanese made pseudo-Masuyama.

 

I like Vixen lanthanum eyepieces, owning complete sets of both original LV and LVW ranges. NLV and the current SLV having screw-up/down eye cups, give less *effective* eye relief than the non-prefixed models which have fold-down eyecups. 

 

Pentax XLs are easier than XWs, particuarly the 5 & 7mm FL.


Edited by 25585, 03 September 2019 - 01:19 PM.

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#12 Distortion78

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 07:37 PM

First off thanks for all the great info.

 

How fast is your scope? What is your budget?

Just pulled the trigger on the Stellervue 102 Access which is f/7. Have been using a cheaper Celestron astromaster 90mm. Going to be a big upgrade for sure. Mainly want eyepieces for planetary. Willing to buy used if in good condition.

 

 

BTW are your eyepieces the current X-Cel LX version or the older X-Cel ? As far as I can see the older versions had 20mm eye relief while the newer ones are rated at 16mm ER.

 

It's possible that they are the same in practice - the LX eyepieces have a flat top so you don't lose any ER - don't remember what the older ones look like.

 

Anyways, the answers might differ depending on whether you really need 20mm for comfortable viewing (I pretty much do) or whether 16mm is sufficient.

 

Pretty sure I have the current versions. They look the same as what is currently for sale. For reference I have a 12 and 18.

 

My ES 82 degree is an 11mm and just feels uncomfortable. Might look at some higher mag eyepieces for planets now that the focal length on my new scope is lower. Going from 1000mm to 714mm.



#13 bridgman

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 09:32 PM

My ES 82 degree is an 11mm and just feels uncomfortable. Might look at some higher mag eyepieces for planets now that the focal length on my new scope is lower. Going from 1000mm to 714mm.

Yep, I also have an 11mm ES82 sitting in the box for the same reason. I *think* it's just that the effective eye relief (spec'ed ER minus protrusion in front of lens) is a bit too short.

 

My experience with the 11mm ES82 is the reason I bit the bullet and ordered the Delos 12mm. 

 

Congrats on the new SV102 BTW. Seems to be very well regarded.



#14 F.Meiresonne

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 05:21 AM

I have trouble using most really-wide-field eyepieces and find that somewhere around 65-70 degrees plus long eye relief is pretty much ideal, with any wider field going unused. I have an 11mm ES82 sitting unused because the eye relief is just a bit too short for me to use it comfortably.

 

The one exception is the 22 Nagler, as StarryHill just mentioned... pretty much the only EP so far where I can view the entire really-wide-field comfortably.

 

Sounds like you also need longer eye relief than most to be comfortable.

 

Recently picked up a 9mm Morpheus and a bit on the fence about it. Initial impression is that in order to see the entire 76 degree field I need to get my eye uncomfortably close, but if I ignore a bit of the outer field and treat it like a 65-70 degree EP it seems pretty good. I don't particularly like the 1.25" / 2" setup but if I can convince myself that it's just clever design rather than making the EP larger than it needs to be I'll probably get over that.

 

So far the 12mm Delos is pretty much the perfect eyepiece for my eyes... expensive but an absolute joy to use (or even to just hold and admire smile.gif). I am also very happy with my 5mm Radian. 

 

I have not used the Celestron X-Cel eyepieces but based on specs and reviews I think I would like them. 

I am a bit in the same legae here. Best for me are the 68° eyepieces. 82° I cannot fully overview, although I find the WO Uwan 82° 16 very comfortable but has FC.

This said I can enjoy my 82° T6 Naglers too....but they are a bit more tricky to look though



#15 25585

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 06:36 AM

Particular eyepieces I have picked up from various places or ranges as opportunity buys:

 

Celestron Ultima LX 22mm

TS Expanse (nothing to do with Orion) 22mm

Meade 5000 SWA/ES Maxvision 28, 34, 40

TAL Superplossl 25mm

CZJ Symmetrical 25mm

Baader Eudiascopic 35mm

Takahashi 28mm Erfle

Vixen LV zoom 8-24mm

Pentax XL SMC zoom 8-24mm

Pentax XL 5.2mm

Nikon NAV SW 17.5mm

Nikon NAV SW 10mm 

TV Delite 18.2mm

 

These all work for me wearing glasses.


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#16 howardcano

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 10:47 AM

Particular eyepieces I have picked up from various places or ranges as opportunity buys:

 

Celestron Ultima LX 22mm

TS Expanse (nothing to do with Orion) 22mm

Meade 5000 SWA/ES Maxvision 28, 34, 40

TAL Superplossl 25mm

CZJ Symmetrical 25mm

Baader Eudiascopic 35mm

Takahashi 28mm Erfle

Vixen LV zoom 8-24mm

Pentax XL SMC zoom 8-24mm

Pentax XL 5.2mm

Nikon NAV SW 17.5mm

Nikon NAV SW 10mm 

TV Delite 18.2mm

 

These all work for me wearing glasses.

I think I remember you also had the APM UFF 30mm?  If so, how's the eye relief on it?



#17 Kim K

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 02:32 PM

+1 on SLV's



#18 25585

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 02:44 PM

I think I remember you also had the APM UFF 30mm?  If so, how's the eye relief on it?

That was a planned buy. Eye relief and comfort are just OK wearing glasses to see the whole FoV. Exit pupil retention is easy. The APM is as a 30mm Morpheus might be, minus 6 degrees AFOV. I am looking forward to a Pentax XW 30 & 40, if their re-release happens. But the APM is my favourite 2 inch thirtysomething.



#19 Distortion78

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 08:09 PM

Was able to score a vixen slv 5mm on the classifieds! Will be 140x with the 102-A. Thanks for all the recommendations, will let you guys know what I think when I get it.


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#20 StarCurious

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:54 AM

I just saw this great discussion thread.

 

My current set

 

ES68 24mm

LVW65 17mm

Delos72 12mm

 

ES 3x Focal Extender

ES 5x Focal Extender

 

With ES 3x, I get equivalents of 8mm, 5.67mm, 4mm

With ES 5x, I get equivalents of 4.8mm, 3.4mm, 2.4mm

 

I use focal extenders since this is easier than searching for short focal length eyepieces with wide FOV and good eye relief.

 

I only get to use Delos72 12mm with ES 5x FE or 2.4mm equivalent with my Starblast 80 with 350mm focal length, and only with perfect sky conditions.

 

All the 3 eyepieces were chosen for long eye relief as I have pretty bad astigmatism and must wear glasses.

 

The combination I enjoy the most is Delos72 12mm with ES 3x FE or 4mm equivalent.

 

I don't know why, but I find the LVW a little dark compared to the Delos 12mm or the ES68 24mm.  I seldom use the LVW65 17mm with either focal extenders, e.g. I would choose ES68 24mm/ES 5xFE over LVW65 17MM/ES 3x FE

 

I am considering replacing the LVW65 17mm with DeLite62 18.2mm which would be parfocal with Delos72 12mm.  At slightly lower price, an alternative is Morpheus76 17.5mm (with nominal 20mm eye relief).

 

Can you share your experience or thoughts with the DeLite62 18.2mm or Morpheus76 17.5mm, especially results with focal extenders? Thanks.


Edited by StarCurious, 14 September 2019 - 01:26 AM.

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#21 SeattleScott

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 02:02 AM

I don’t know how you could compare relative brightness of those eyepieces given the rather different focal lengths. Unless you are saying you get roughly the same FL with the barlows and the LVW is still dimmer? Of course you are using different barlows, and still ending up at a bit different focal lengths. So hard to say if changing eyepieces will really solve the problem. I think Morpheus are considered a touch on the dim side, like LVW, because of all the lens elements. And of course adding a barlow doesn’t help any. Maybe Delite is better? Narrower AFOV so fewer lenses possibly.

I know the LVW are a little older and don’t have the latest greatest coating, but the coating is still quite good. Noticeably brighter than a much older Nagler Type 1. I have heard people say LVW are dimmer but they typically arrive at this conclusion by counting stars, and finding they can count a few more stars in a newer eyepiece. As in you have to really look close to see a difference. I mean you are talking about 99% transmission coating versus 99.5%. Granted there are multiple air to glass surfaces, but still you are looking at a different of maybe a few percent. If the LVW really seems noticeably dimmer then something else is going on. Like a different color tone, different magnifications, using different barlow, maybe a dirty lens, etc. I’m sure a Delite is nice, but it seems like a lot to pay to get an extra 3% transmission, and lose 3% AFOV.

Scott

#22 25585

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 09:07 AM

I am surprised you find the 24mm ES68 has enough eye relief, I have found it is not!

 

I have 18mm Delite, 17mm LVW & 17.5mm Morpheus. Also Nikon NAV SW 17.5mm 70°, which has the longest effective eye relief of the 4. The Nikon is smaller & lighter, more Delite class.

 

But best between Morpheus & Delite, I would choose the Morpheus for its wider field of view and immersiveness. If you intend to bino view, the Delite and Nikon will be better for i.p.d. and combined weight.


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#23 bridgman

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 11:21 AM

I am surprised you find the 24mm ES68 has enough eye relief, I have found it is not!

I just ordered a 24mm ES68, albeit with some concern about eye relief. 

 

I know the 11mm ES82 does not have enough eye relief for me, but the 24/ES68 seems to have a few more mm on tap. 

 

There should be an app where you take a picture of your eye socket area and it spits out a list of eyepieces that would work for you :)


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#24 SeattleScott

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 11:45 AM

ES advertises 18.4mm ER. Typically they overstate ER by 3mm. So probably more like 15-16mm. Personally I need at least 17mm to see the whole FOV with glasses. For example the ES 24/82 is advertised as 17.5mm ER, but I cannot view the whole FOV with glasses. So I would be surprised if you can see the entire FOV with glasses, but you will probably get 90% or more, and it is a lot cheaper than some other LE options. So it might be good enough for the price. I guess you will just have to see what you think when it arrives.

Personally I just ordered a Meade 25mm HD-60 for my grab and go set. People consistently say they can use glasses with it, unlike the ES 24/68. And people seem to consistently say the Meade is better corrected. That surprised me a little given the Meade is considerably cheaper. Being on closeout sale helps, but it is cheaper even at retail price of $89. Apparently people call it the Poor Man’s 24 Pan. Granted this is all just second hand from my research as the eyepiece hasn’t arrived yet. But it might be an option if the ES doesn’t have enough ER, or is otherwise not to your liking.

Scott
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#25 bridgman

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:37 PM

Interesting... I hadn't looked at the HD-60 line before. Seems that even the shorter FL's have nice eye relief. Thanks !




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