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colourful DSOs, blue snowball

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#1 judebox

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 03:42 PM

Hi everyone, I have an 8 inch skywatcher dobsonian and live in bortle 3 skies, I was looking for a DSO to see colour in and came across alot of people talking about the blue snowball NGC 7662 in andromeda, I managed to find it ( it was tiny!) and unfortunately grey to my eyes. Now alot of people are talking about how age makes colour vision deteriorate, but Im still quite young ( a teenager) 

and did some colour blindness test and passed all of them online. the enchroma one to be specific. I asked some other poeple in the house to look at it and they also saw grey.

So I figure it must be my 8 inch aperture? Would any other DSO show colour to me?

Thanks


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#2 sg6

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 04:12 PM

M42 is the one for color. Usually green. May be green because there is lots of green or because the eye sees green better.

 

Problems: Have read that you need 14", then someone comes along saying they saw color (usually magnificent colors) in binoculars - birding 8x42's. Age may have an input, could be age or deterioating eyes (thinking cataracts). Finally to see color the intensity has to be high enough to trigger the color receptors into life.

 

But M42 is the one to start on. After that no idea.


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#3 rkinnett

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:15 PM

It takes your eyes/brain a long time to acclimate to low light enough to perceive color contrast in dim DSOs.  Try sitting in a completely dark room (no computer/phone!) for an hour before looking through the eyepiece, and keep your observing eye closed or covered when you're not observing.  Keep your observing area as dark as you possibly can.

 

As sg6 said, do check out M42, and please report back what you see... :)



#4 rkinnett

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:34 PM

Here's a decent visual observing guide:  https://www.skyandte...ason-by-season/



#5 Inkswitch

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:21 AM

Hi everyone, I have an 8 inch skywatcher dobsonian and live in bortle 3 skies, I was looking for a DSO to see colour in and came across alot of people talking about the blue snowball NGC 7662 in andromeda, I managed to find it ( it was tiny!) and unfortunately grey to my eyes. Now alot of people are talking about how age makes colour vision deteriorate, but Im still quite young ( a teenager) 

and did some colour blindness test and passed all of them online. the enchroma one to be specific. I asked some other poeple in the house to look at it and they also saw grey.

So I figure it must be my 8 inch aperture? Would any other DSO show colour to me?

Thanks

I do not know your level of experience but I will relate an anecdote.  When I started out I was highly disappointed in the view when I pointed my 150mm reflector at Jupiter for the first time.  Looked light a white ball (slightly oval [at least I could see that part]) with two grey bands. Looked like that for some time but I kept at it and now as soon as I point my 150mm at Jupiter I see a wealth of color and 15+ bands depending on seeing.


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#6 NorthernlatAK

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:24 AM

I have a similar telescope and similar skies. I see it as blue.

#7 judebox

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:46 AM

I do not know your level of experience but I will relate an anecdote.  When I started out I was highly disappointed in the view when I pointed my 150mm reflector at Jupiter for the first time.  Looked light a white ball (slightly oval [at least I could see that part]) with two grey bands. Looked like that for some time but I kept at it and now as soon as I point my 150mm at Jupiter I see a wealth of color and 15+ bands depending on seeing.

I have about a year and a half of experience and have seen alot of DSOs so I know exactly what to expect, just disapointed by its lack of colour. When I point my old 114m newtonian at jupiter i see cream with coffee bands, same with the 8 inch dob



#8 havasman

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 02:14 PM

The color is present and can be seen via amateur instruments. Quite a few planetary nebulae reveal color to the observer. Some have their color incorporated into their names. The challenge to the game for the observer is ferreting out the available details and characteristics of an object. Just because we may not see a characteristic of an object doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

On a decent night from a good site NGC7662 can reveal itself to be quite blue for a patient, skilled and properly equipped observer.


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#9 judebox

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 02:57 PM

The color is present and can be seen via amateur instruments. Quite a few planetary nebulae reveal color to the observer. Some have their color incorporated into their names. The challenge to the game for the observer is ferreting out the available details and characteristics of an object. Just because we may not see a characteristic of an object doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

On a decent night from a good site NGC7662 can reveal itself to be quite blue for a patient, skilled and properly equipped observer.

I'll try observe it every night im out until i notice colour, alot people say ghost of jupiter or saturn nebula is colourful, would thye be easier to detect than ngc 7662?



#10 Araguaia

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:20 PM

One problem may be the Moon.  It will ruin your dark adaptation.  The more dark adapted you are, and the darker it is, the more color you see.


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#11 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:55 PM

I see it as blue in my 15 inch Dob. This is from a Bortle 2 site with no moon.
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#12 judebox

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 04:14 PM

Just back from observing it, full moon. I did see this time a small tint of blue. I guess sky conditions were a little better, but I'll let you know what i see once the moon has gone away



#13 Keith Rivich

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 04:36 PM

One problem may be the Moon.  It will ruin your dark adaptation.  The more dark adapted you are, and the darker it is, the more color you see.

I have to disagree with this. A fully dark adapted (scotopic) eye will see no color. You need the cones working (photopic) for colors to register. A little light helps. I just look into my dim red light for a few seconds. Works great. I find colors more pronounced when not fully dark adapted. 

 

You are correct on needing dark skies, though.


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#14 NorthernlatAK

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 08:41 PM

I have to disagree with this. A fully dark adapted (scotopic) eye will see no color. You need the cones working (photopic) for colors to register. A little light helps. I just look into my dim red light for a few seconds. Works great. I find colors more pronounced when not fully dark adapted.

You are correct on needing dark skies, though.

Im beginning to see that this is true and explains why when snow is on the ground but the sky is dark I see color in certain objects. In the past I've seen rusty-pink on the outskirts of m42, and gray-pink on the very edge of m57, both when snow covered the ground. About 2 weeks ago I observed M57 with ambient light around. I saw the faint pink around it like before, but it looked like a hint of orange was in the pink. No snow this time, but I know I wasn't fully dark adapted. There was smoke in the air from a forest fire though.

#15 Araguaia

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 12:03 PM

Well, I certainly see red and green on M42 at 4 AM, after being out observing with no moon or lights since 2 AM.  I would say I am as dark adapted at that point as I can get.

 

An hour later, the first light of dawn starts to tint the sky to the east, and if I go back to M42 the colors start to fade, first the red, and then the green.



#16 judebox

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 02:20 PM

Well, I certainly see red and green on M42 at 4 AM, after being out observing with no moon or lights since 2 AM.  I would say I am as dark adapted at that point as I can get.

 

An hour later, the first light of dawn starts to tint the sky to the east, and if I go back to M42 the colors start to fade, first the red, and then the green.

What aperture telescope do you have? I wonder if 8 inches will be enough to see green on M42



#17 Keith Rivich

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 03:49 PM

Well, I certainly see red and green on M42 at 4 AM, after being out observing with no moon or lights since 2 AM.  I would say I am as dark adapted at that point as I can get.

 

An hour later, the first light of dawn starts to tint the sky to the east, and if I go back to M42 the colors start to fade, first the red, and then the green.

For me M42, and most bright emission nebula, has a "greenish" overall tint. I do see the reddish "edge" that is quite apparent in images. In smaller scopes I see these as more pronounced when not fully dark adapted. In the 25" both are still "colorful" even fully dark adapted, the Trapezium stars are bright enough to trigger some photopic vision.

 

Small, bright planetaries never lose their colors no matter what. 

 

I couple of examples: M20 and IC418 lose their colors when I am fully dark adapted. On either I can switch to a bright star for a few seconds then go back and the color reappears. 



#18 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 06:07 PM

A list of DSOs that display color, most of which are high-surface-brightness planetary nebulae, can be found at https://www.cloudyni...hat-have-color/

 

Dave Mitsky


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#19 NorthernlatAK

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 08:47 PM

What aperture telescope do you have? I wonder if 8 inches will be enough to see green on M42

I see the rusty pink and green in m42 in my 8"...
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#20 chrysalis

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 05:13 AM

A list of DSOs that display color, most of which are high-surface-brightness planetary nebulae, can be found at https://www.cloudyni...hat-have-color/

 

Dave Mitsky

To my eye almost every high SB PN appears cyan in hue except IC418 in Lepus, which ...to me at least...has a very noticeable pinkish hue.



#21 Chucke

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 12:57 PM

A couple of weeks ago I took a peek at Campbell's Hydrogen Star. It looked like a star with a small brick red ring around it.


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#22 judebox

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Posted 16 September 2019 - 01:56 PM

A couple of weeks ago I took a peek at Campbell's Hydrogen Star. It looked like a star with a small brick red ring around it.

Doubt ill be able to catch that in an 8 inch, but it looks quite interesting



#23 Dave McCrary

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 01:20 PM

Try more magnification. I just figured that out for Planetary Nebs. Was like a EURIKA moment for me. Blue Snowball: Blue. Just saw the Saturn Neb and it looked Green/Greenish Blue and pretty good size. I have a 10 inch Apetura.
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#24 havasman

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 01:47 PM

Try more magnification. I just figured that out for Planetary Nebs. Was like a EURIKA moment for me. Blue Snowball: Blue. Just saw the Saturn Neb and it looked Green/Greenish Blue and pretty good size. I have a 10 inch Apetura.

Yes, many observers fail to recognize the value of high and very high magnification and then come to distrust observing reports of others who see features and objects they do not.

 

And welcome to the forums.


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#25 judebox

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 09:49 AM

I don't really have a decent high magnification eyepiece but I'll try anyway. I looked at the turtle nebula in Hercules and It looked green with a little but of blue to me. Stronger than blue snowball.


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