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Is it worth upgrading an ES 127 ED?

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34 replies to this topic

#1 Ballyhoo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 04:49 PM

These are nice telescopes for the price point, but it is the lower end ED triplet, with FCD1 glass.   I am wondering if it would be worthwhile to upgrade to a  moonlight focuser and invest in the reducer, all told about $800. 



#2 chakel

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:04 PM

Use the opportunity to upgrade to a scope with better glass.



#3 mistateo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:06 PM

It depends.... Are you happy with the images your ES127 puts up?  If yes, leave it be.  If no, what do you not like about it?


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#4 Ballyhoo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:08 PM

It depends.... Are you happy with the images your ES127 puts up?  If yes, leave it be.  If no, what do you not like about it?

I am happy with the images it puts up, but of course it is not the best glass. Issue is the focuser if very entry level and not a joy to use. 



#5 Mitrovarr

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:12 PM

I mean, for a meaningful glass upgrade, its going to be several thousand, and you'll still have to buy a reducer if you want one. So how much you want to spend is a major factor.
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#6 chakel

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:20 PM

Would the FCD100 glass 127scope with the upgraded 2.5" focuser be a noticeable upgrade? What has been reported?



#7 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:30 PM

I am happy with the images it puts up, but of course it is not the best glass. Issue is the focuser if very entry level and not a joy to use. 

The focuser could probably be tweaked to work much better.  Call Kent at ES customer service and talk with him.

 

The function of a focuser is important.  I had a Moonlite on a Celestron 150 mm Achro.  It's now on a ST 120 Achro.



#8 Ballyhoo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:32 PM

I mean, for a meaningful glass upgrade, its going to be several thousand, and you'll still have to buy a reducer if you want one. So how much you want to spend is a major factor.

Well that is the point, isnt it? Upgrading the focuser and buying a reducer is still a lot less expensive. the reducer/flattner is now reduced to $329 and moonlight quoted me $450 for a new focuser.  At that point I will have a nicely appointed 5" triplet, but still with FCD1 glass.



#9 Ballyhoo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:35 PM

The focuser could probably be tweaked to work much better.  Call Kent at ES customer service and talk with him.

 

The function of a focuser is important.  I had a Moonlite on a Celestron 150 mm Achro.  It's now on a ST 120 Achro.

But what could Kent do? interesting. I thought the focuser is limited by its cheap make. 



#10 Mitrovarr

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:36 PM

Is the color correction bothering you enough to drop at least $1k, probably more, to improve it?

#11 Ballyhoo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:38 PM

Is the color correction bothering you enough to drop at least $1k, probably more, to improve it?

No color correction is not an issue unless it is a little OOF. but who uses a scope OOF anyways. It is actually a very nice scope.  Proably should just invest to make it the way I want. I think I will buy refractors in other aperture classes, but I would likely keep this one for the 5" class (Although I have been eying the ES 115 which is on sale and has FPL 53 w a hex focuser.



#12 fcathell

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 06:10 PM

Considering that the atmosphere is the primary culprit that limits the image clarity, you have to ask yourself if you think what you will see will be $800 better than what you already have.

 

Frank



#13 wrvond

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 06:11 PM

No color correction is not an issue unless it is a little OOF. but who uses a scope OOF anyways. It is actually a very nice scope.  Proably should just invest to make it the way I want. I think I will buy refractors in other aperture classes, but I would likely keep this one for the 5" class (Although I have been eying the ES 115 which is on sale and has FPL 53 w a hex focuser.

I have a Meade 5" Apo that gives very good views for what it is. The focuser was complete junk (no news there), I upgraded the focuser with a $200.00 USD GSO focuser that is very much an improvement in appearance as well as function. The telescope is not worth a MoonLite or similar.

Moving into the 5" ED scopes is a bit different. I think the different types of glass used in these scopes are akin to the different kinds of tires available to fit your car. In other words, I don't think you'd see enough of a performance change to justify spending the money for the same class scope with different glass. The one you have works well with the exception of the focuser - so why change the glass? It won't make it focus any differently. Get the focuser you and put it on there.

I've got an SW Pro 120ED coming, you can bet I'll be putting a Feather Touch on there and won't regret it for a second.


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#14 aa6ww

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 06:18 PM

Optically your scope sounds very nice.
In this refractor forum, nothing is ever good enough.

Id go for the moonlight upgrade and enjoy what you already have. A new focuser is an excellent way to bring new enthusiasm back into a nice refractor.

...Ralph

 

These are nice telescopes for the price point, but it is the lower end ED triplet, with FCD1 glass.   I am wondering if it would be worthwhile to upgrade to a  moonlight focuser and invest in the reducer, all told about $800.


Edited by aa6ww, 11 September 2019 - 07:12 PM.

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#15 Ballyhoo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 06:55 PM

Optically your scope sounds very nice.
In this refractor, nothing is ever good enough.

Id go for the moonlight upgrade and enjoy what you already have. A new focuser is an excellent way to bring new enthusiasm back into a nice refractor.

...Ralph

 

 

Optically your scope sounds very nice.
In this refractor, nothing is ever good enough.

Id go for the moonlight upgrade and enjoy what you already have. A new focuser is an excellent way to bring new enthusiasm back into a nice refractor.

...Ralph

 

well for an extra $300 I could make it moto-focus. Not sure if that is worth it for me or not. 



#16 Mitrovarr

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 07:05 PM

Are you doing photography? Probably worth it then, otherwise almost certainly not (especially not compared to a premium focuser).



#17 aa6ww

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 07:15 PM

I could see a "show us your new focuser upgrade" thread starting...

I've done plenty of focuser upgrades. Its a nice way to compliment a nice telescope.

...Ralph
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#18 wrvond

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:31 PM

I could see a "show us your new focuser upgrade" thread starting...

I've done plenty of focuser upgrades. Its a nice way to compliment a nice telescope.

...Ralph

Which brings us full circle to the original question:

Is an ES 127ED worth spending a MoonLite or Feather Touch on?  I say "yes"!waytogo.gif


Edited by wrvond, 11 September 2019 - 08:31 PM.

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#19 tog

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:10 PM

Which brings us full circle to the original question:

Is an ES 127ED worth spending a MoonLite or Feather Touch on?  I say "yes"!waytogo.gif

Another resounding yes from me also!


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#20 Ballyhoo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:41 PM

well, I do imaging as well as visual so now I will have to decide whether to motorize. With respect to the cost of motorization, I say "ouch."  but if that ouch is one time and for remaining ownership I will be glad I did rather than wishing I had, then maybe that is something to consider.


Edited by Ballyhoo, 11 September 2019 - 09:41 PM.


#21 2ndRecon

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:48 PM

I’m another one that vouches for an upgrade.

Then bird dog the forums for a nice small Triplet with
Primo components.
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#22 PPPPPP42

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:31 PM

Whether or not you have accepted it yourself, its become clear to the rest of us over the course of several threads that you have "what might I be missing" syndrome which can only be solved by using exclusively Televue eyepieces in one of Takahashi's better refractors.

You are really beyond the point in your taste for gear where budget can be allowed to be a deciding factor in what to choose.  You won't be happy unless you just pick what you want regardless of cost and then figure out how long it will take to save up for it.

 

If you really want to replace the 127mm I think it should be with the ES 140mm F6.5 which would give you essentially the same focal length with the extra aperture going into making it a faster scope able to pull fainter targets and image more effectively plus being carbon fiber its almost the same weight as your 127mm and most importantly its an APO triplet using FPL53 glass so you won't have to wonder if better glass would have helped.

Its that or go back to mulling over whether or not you need a Takahashi again.

 

I debated where to go next after my FCD100 127mm and came to the conclusion that realistic seeing was limiting my image quality and no scope would work better than what I have, but exit pupil was limiting my magnification and a larger aperture (and accompanying focal length increase) was the only way to fix that but the next step up would be so fantastically expensive that I couldn't do it with a refractor.

Thus I have already maxed out my refractor category and I have zero use for a smaller one as I find this size extremely portable even with the aluminum tube and its pointless to buy a smaller scope to see less with it.

I can actually cram almost all of M31 Andromeda into my view with my 20mm 100 degree and with a 2.67mm exit pupil that's about as bright an image as I am going to get with this aperture.

 

As much as I love my refractor I am working on figuring out why the focuser in my 8" sct is so screwed up so I can get it into service again, and debating whether I need the CGEM II or CGX for my refractor for when I want more than just the manual alt/az. (I know I want the CGX but its out of my price range for several years)


Edited by PPPPPP42, 11 September 2019 - 10:32 PM.


#23 Ballyhoo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:44 PM

Whether or not you have accepted it yourself, its become clear to the rest of us over the course of several threads that you have "what might I be missing" syndrome which can only be solved by using exclusively Televue eyepieces in one of Takahashi's better refractors.

I agree with you but I also think this sentiment has zero reality basis and I am not even sure what brain center it is predicated on, but I think it the limbic system for sure and in no way neo-cortical. IE, I am being a child wanting another toy without really need.  There is yet so much to be done with what I have. Still,

having the most pristine optical system could be heavenly. crazy.gif



#24 PPPPPP42

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 11:03 PM

I don't mean to offend, its an obnoxiously common affliction in the refractor forum for quality reasons and the dob forum for aperture reasons.

 

There simply comes a point where budget is irrelevant and you have to answer the Spice Girls question:

"So, tell me what you want, what you really really want."



#25 Ballyhoo

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 12:24 AM

I don't mean to offend, its an obnoxiously common affliction in the refractor forum for quality reasons and the dob forum for aperture reasons.

 

There simply comes a point where budget is irrelevant and you have to answer the Spice Girls question:

"So, tell me what you want, what you really really want."

the 10" AP Mak on  a Rainbow mount, since you asked. 




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