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Upgrading eyepiece s

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#1 Chardo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:21 PM

I am considering upgrading some of my eyepieces for my 10" f4.7 Sky Watcher. I would be looking to buy  used and stay within a budget of about $500 for 3 lenses. My short(ish) list is...

 

ES 82* series

Lunt/APM As a 100*

Badder Morpheus

Williams Optics Swan or Superb Planetary

 

What are your thoughts and considerations?

Thanks for your help .

Chardo



#2 SeattleScott

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:24 PM

Or just $500 for a Paracorr and you are all done...

If you don’t have a Paracorr I would error on the narrow side, like Morpheus or ES 82 over a 100 AFOV hyperwide.

Scott
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#3 LDW47

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:36 PM

I am considering upgrading some of my eyepieces for my 10" f4.7 Sky Watcher. I would be looking to buy  used and stay within a budget of about $500 for 3 lenses. My short(ish) list is...

 

ES 82* series

Lunt/APM As a 100*

Badder Morpheus

Williams Optics Swan or Superb Planetary

 

What are your thoughts and considerations?

Thanks for your help .

Chardo

Just make sure they are 2” with one low power, wide field !



#4 Chardo

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:43 PM

Or just $500 for a Paracorr and you are all done...

If you don’t have a Paracorr I would error on the narrow side, like Morpheus or ES 82 over a 100 AFOV hyperwide.

Scott

Will a Paracorr make my inexpensive lenses work better in my fast dob or is there a compromise by adding more to the light path?



#5 scngc7317

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:54 PM

You can use any eyepiece in any telescope BUT you have high F# scopes & Low F# scopes

High F# scopes = 20mm to 80mm eyepieces 

Low F# scopes = 3mm to 20mm eyepieses

" Usually "

 

this guy is going to see 20 to 80 6" F-15

 

IMG 3616
 
this guy is going to see 3 to 20 17.5 F 4.5
 
IMG 1800

 

3520


#6 vdog

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:02 PM

I have the same scope.  My kit includes Baader and ES (great EPs that work well even without a CC), as well as others.  For planetary, I mostly use the Meade 5.5 (Jupiter) and SW Nirvana 4mm (Saturn).



#7 Jond105

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:05 PM

I had the same scope as you and observe in the same back yard as you neighbor(I’m in Madison Heights)The ES82 is a fine choice to go with. I never had the APM’s in that scope. Message me if you ever want to borrow one and check it out in your scope. Not for sale of course as this is my final set, but may help you decide. I still have the high power Es 82’s and the 30mm. 


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#8 Jond105

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:14 PM

Will a Paracorr make my inexpensive lenses work better in my fast dob or is there a compromise by adding more to the light path?

A paracorr won’t take away natural aberrations of an inexpensive eyepiece, but will correct the coma in the well corrected eyepieces in the faster dobs. Again don’t be afraid to take me up on the offer to borrow my case for a night out. 


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#9 droid

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 10:29 PM

Set yourself a series of goals or parameters.

 

are you building one set to do it all , be very good in the dob and equally ,if not better, as good in an f8 and up refractor.?

 

how wide of a field of  view are your eyes going to be comfortable with?.

 

how much are you willing to spend on any one given eyepiece?

 

are you willing to buy used? or only new?

 

what are your observing interests? DSO  or Planetary / Lunar observing? or a little of both.

 

In my case I wanted to do lunar and DSO both, I wanted eps hat were very good at f8 or f10 and still very good in my f4.9 skywatcher 12 inch, I have settled on 82 degrees as my max field of view, and also used or less than 200 d0llars ( no small feat on disability )

Im also not a brand specific type, but I want the best I can get, within my above constraints. So I have 5 TV, 4 ES, and 1 Meade UWA

 

none cost more than 200 used.



#10 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 12:42 AM

I'd look for a lowest power, wide field. Something like 30/82 ES or 30 APM ultra flat (~200).

 

Then I'd want something medium power for a lot of use. Something like a Baader Morpheus 12.5 (~175).

 

For higher power, the Meade 5.5 UWA is hard to beat (~80).

 

Keep an eye out for a Paracorr 1, should be possible to find one for about 200.



#11 CrazyPanda

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 01:00 AM

Will a Paracorr make my inexpensive lenses work better in my fast dob or is there a compromise by adding more to the light path?

A paracorr will improve the quality of stars towards the edge of the field in your scope by eliminating coma. The wider the apparent field of view is, the more improvement you will see.

 

The extra glass in the light path is negligible, and one could argue that by getting all rays of light to go where they belong, it "pays for itself and then some" optically speaking.

 

However, if the eyepieces won't work well with fast focal ratios, a Paracorr cannot fix that. Eyepieces that are only meant for long focal ratios will still exhibit astigmatism towards the edges of the field, even though coma is gone. A Paracorr also cannot fix any issues with contrast or ergonomics.

 

At F/4.7, you do not need a paracorr to enjoy a good widefield eyepiece. I use 100 degree eyepieces at F/4.5 without a paracorr and it doesn't bother me much. It did at first, but then I got used to it. If you have basic plossls, then upgrading to any of the lines you listed will be a huge upgrade. You can always add a Paracorr later if you don't like how much coma a widefield eyepiece makes visible to you.


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#12 epee

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:01 AM

I am considering upgrading some of my eyepieces for my 10" f4.7 Sky Watcher. I would be looking to buy  used and stay within a budget of about $500 for 3 lenses. My short(ish) list is...

 

ES 82* series

Lunt/APM As a 100*

Badder Morpheus

Williams Optics Swan or Superb Planetary

 

What are your thoughts and considerations?

Thanks for your help .

Chardo

I can vouch for the Morpheus and the ES 82* (30mm & 24mm). I like observing with my eyeglasses on, and these give me enough eye relief. 

 

My XT12 is advertised as f/5, but the math says f/4.9. If I look carefully I can detect some aberration at the very edges of the above eyepieces; but I have to look for it, it doesn't jump out and hit me....

 

I don't use a Paracorr


Edited by epee, 12 September 2019 - 10:02 AM.

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#13 rkelley8493

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:42 AM

I am considering upgrading some of my eyepieces for my 10" f4.7 Sky Watcher. I would be looking to buy  used and stay within a budget of about $500 for 3 lenses. My short(ish) list is...

 

ES 82* series

Lunt/APM As a 100*

Badder Morpheus

Williams Optics Swan or Superb Planetary

 

What are your thoughts and considerations?

Thanks for your help .

Chardo

The ES 82°s are a good affordable alternative to the Naglers. However, the Nagler Type 4's are in a different class with long eye relief. The ES 82's mostly resemble the Type 5 & Type 6, and the 30 & 24 are probably the best of the Series.

Lunt/APM seem to get a lot of praise, but I've never used them. Most people say they are a good competitor of the Ethos and rival the ES 100°s. I will say that the ES 14/100° is the best of the series.. I favored it over the 13 Ethos [personal preference].

Baader Morpheus would be what I chose as a starting point because they are reasonably affordable and have excellent performance. They are very similar to the Pentax XW & TeleVue Delos in optical properties. But they fit "my style" of observing. I don't wear glasses, but I prefer long eye relief because of their viewing comfort and larger eye lenses.


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#14 Sarkikos

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:58 AM

Will a Paracorr make my inexpensive lenses work better in my fast dob or is there a compromise by adding more to the light path?

A Paracorr will make your fast Dob work better by correcting for the coma from the primary mirror.  If you have poorly performing eyepieces, the Paracorr won't make them work better.  If anything, the aberrations in the eyepieces will be more obvious because they won't be obscured by the coma.

 

Paracorr plus decent eyepieces is the best path.  But if you must choose, it's probably better to upgrade your eyepieces first.  

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 12 September 2019 - 11:02 AM.

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#15 Chardo

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:19 AM

I will definitely take you up on your generous offer. Going to dark skies the last week of September maybe we can meet before that?

I had the same scope as you and observe in the same back yard as you neighbor(I’m in Madison Heights)The ES82 is a fine choice to go with. I never had the APM’s in that scope. Message me if you ever want to borrow one and check it out in your scope. Not for sale of course as this is my final set, but may help you decide. I still have the high power Es 82’s and the 30mm.


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#16 Chardo

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:56 AM

I do have the 2” correction it's a 30mms not 40mm. that came with the scope and several Plossls from 9mm to 32mm.
 

I'd look for a lowest power, wide field. Something like 30/82 ES or 30 APM ultra flat (~200).

Then I'd want something medium power for a lot of use. Something like a Baader Morpheus 12.5 (~175).

For higher power, the Meade 5.5 UWA is hard to beat (~80).

Keep an eye out for a Paracorr 1, should be possible to find one for about 200.


Edited by Chardo, 12 September 2019 - 07:30 PM.


#17 epee

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 12:08 PM

I do have the 2” 40mm that came with the scopea and several Plossls from 9mm to 32mm
 

Those likely are not "bad" as far as aberration goes. The 40mm is likely a little weak compared to the ES 82* 30mm. The Plossls are generally as good as the build quality with the exception of the eye relief getting shorter and shorter as the magnification increases. 



#18 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 01:09 PM

I do have the 2” 40mm that came with the scopea and several Plossls from 9mm to 32mm
 

If you are reasonably happy with the 40, then I'd look for a solid performing medium power first--a most used eyepiece.

 

As for the discussion on the paracorr, I have a different view from the others. At F5 I consider it a major benefit, so at F4.7 I'd definitely want one at some point.

 

The paracorr will have the effect of greatly improving the view. For example, with the ES 30/82, there's some astigmatism at the edges and that astigmatism is additive with the coma. No coma corrector, and the edges are very hairy. If you use a 31 Nagler without a coma corrector, the view is much more pleasant. The coma is still there, but there's very little astigmatism so the view is better. Once you put the paracorr in, the ES and Nagler have performance that is much closer.

 

The paracorr can also correct for some field curvature in eyepieces. For example, the Pentax 14 and 20XWs both show a good amount of FC. The paracorr decreases that signficantly.

 

So, the paracorr really can improve the performance of some eyepieces as well as correct the coma.


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#19 Jond105

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 03:44 PM

I will definitely take you up on your generous offer. Going to dark skies the last week of September maybe we can meet before that?
 

Without a doubt we can meet up before then. PM sent. 


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#20 Chardo

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 04:12 PM

What advantage will a 2" ep have over an 1 .25" ep, other  than being heavier and more expensive ?

I do have a Zhumell 30mms wide field that I enjoy uaing.

Just make sure they are 2” with one low power, wide field !



#21 Jond105

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 04:20 PM

What advantage will a 2" ep have over an 1 .25" ep, other  than being heavier and more expensive ?

I do have a Zhumell 30mms wide field that I enjoy uaing.

The type of skirt used in the eyepiece has more to do with the field stop in order to fit the AFOV. A 4.7mm 100 degree fits in a 1.25” eyepiece, but may also come in a 2” skirt. A 30mm 82 degree must be in a 2” eyepiece. Due to the field stop being well above a 1.25” skirt. So the advantage really lies in the low power wide fields. 



#22 SeattleScott

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 04:44 PM

What advantage will a 2" ep have over an 1 .25" ep, other than being heavier and more expensive ?
I do have a Zhumell 30mms wide field that I enjoy uaing.

You don’t have to mess with an adapter when switching from your low power 2” to medium or high power.

Scott

#23 LDW47

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 04:52 PM

The type of skirt used in the eyepiece has more to do with the field stop in order to fit the AFOV. A 4.7mm 100 degree fits in a 1.25” eyepiece, but may also come in a 2” skirt. A 30mm 82 degree must be in a 2” eyepiece. Due to the field stop being well above a 1.25” skirt. So the advantage really lies in the low power wide fields. 

Thanx for answering, lol ! Its that awash in stars feeling when the skies are black, nothing like it ! That port hole effect that only a 2” can bring, at least to me and many others ! And if they are worrying about weight they are either weak or their mount is too light, lol ! 


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#24 Chardo

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:13 PM

Anyone have experience with Williams Optics super planetary s or the Badder Morpheus?



#25 scotsman328i

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:08 PM

I cannot speak for William Optics SP eyepieces, but I’ve looked through the WO Swan 40mm and the view was wonderful.


Edited by Scotsman328i, 14 September 2019 - 03:08 PM.

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