Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Anyone else see this?

  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#1 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 78960
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 16 September 2019 - 08:51 PM

Someone posted a link to the Skywatcher USA Evostar 120ED wwebpage.

 

https://www.skywatch...s/evostar-120ed

 

As of the Evostar 150 ED, I thought Skywatcher wasn't revealing glasses anymore.. I am seeing it listed for the Evostar 80nmm, 100mm and 120 mm as well as all the Esprit refractors. It just so happens these all use FPL-53.

 

:scratchhead:

 

Jon


  • Scott in NC, CeleNoptic, CounterWeight and 5 others like this

#2 Scott in NC

Scott in NC

    Refractor Fanatic

  • *****
  • Administrators
  • Posts: 31503
  • Joined: 05 Mar 2005
  • Loc: NC

Posted 16 September 2019 - 09:05 PM

I see that they even disclose the mating glass, which seems to be even less common nowadays than revealing the ED glass, which is what most people seem to focus on anyway. 


  • Jon Isaacs, Joe1950 and AstroKerr like this

#3 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 78960
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 16 September 2019 - 09:14 PM

Scott:

 

I'm not complaining.. and these are older scopes so it's nice they're still letting us know they haven't changed the glasses. It makes recommending an ED-120 easier knowing they're still using FPL-53. 

 

It seems like maybe going forward they will no longer reveal the glasses.

 

Jon


  • zjc26138, Joe1950 and IMB like this

#4 gnowellsct

gnowellsct

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 15723
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2009

Posted 16 September 2019 - 10:52 PM

Someone posted a link to the Skywatcher USA Evostar 120ED wwebpage.

https://www.skywatch...s/evostar-120ed

As of the Evostar 150 ED, I thought Skywatcher wasn't revealing glasses anymore.. I am seeing it listed for the Evostar 80nmm, 100mm and 120 mm as well as all the Esprit refractors. It just so happens these all use FPL-53.

:scratchhead:

Jon


That's a famous 120mm scope. Easily shows the Valle Marineris which other mortals didn't get to see till the Mariner pictures of the 1970s.

THAT FPL53 JUST DOESN'T QUIT.
  • SandyHouTex, PirateMike and Joe1950 like this

#5 wrnchhead

wrnchhead

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1012
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2017
  • Loc: NE Kansas

Posted 16 September 2019 - 10:55 PM

I guess I don’t understand why it’s “ok” that they don’t. Is it accepted that it’s a trade secret? You’d think consumers wanting to know what they’re spending their money in would “force” them to reveal it?

My immediate gut reaction to “not telling” is that there’s a negative connotation. Anyone gonna buy the “secret meat” soup from the diner down the street? What am I missing?
  • 25585 likes this

#6 aa6ww

aa6ww

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2064
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2011
  • Loc: Sacramento, Calif.

Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:33 AM

The 80ED, 100ED and 120ED have always advertised their scopes as having FPL-53 glass. Thats why I bought mine and haven't considered replacing it with anything else in that size range.

The optics are excellent. I bought the Williams Optics matching white digital crayford 2" focuser that was advertised to use on this scope also, its a compliment to the scope.

 

Had it about 4 years now, I think. Still pretty darn impressive.

 

...Ralph


  • Jon Isaacs, terraclarke, Bomber Bob and 2 others like this

#7 Mitrovarr

Mitrovarr

    Mercury-Atlas

  • -----
  • Posts: 2752
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2004
  • Loc: Boise, Idaho

Posted 17 September 2019 - 12:47 AM

I guess I don’t understand why it’s “ok” that they don’t. Is it accepted that it’s a trade secret? You’d think consumers wanting to know what they’re spending their money in would “force” them to reveal it?

My immediate gut reaction to “not telling” is that there’s a negative connotation. Anyone gonna buy the “secret meat” soup from the diner down the street? What am I missing?

I guess you either put up with it and buy a scope from them, or you don't.

 

I think it makes more sense to go by reviews, honestly. Lens design has a lot to do with color correction. You can mess up a lens with good glass or make an overachiever with cheaper glass.

 

I have a 150ED, which doesn't disclose glass type. It has some chromatic aberration, but honestly, I don't think you could make an ED doublet of 150mm and F/8 focal ratio that didn't. It doesn't have enough to be a problem to me.


Edited by Mitrovarr, 17 September 2019 - 12:48 AM.

  • Paul Hyndman, Heywood and wrnchhead like this

#8 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 78960
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 17 September 2019 - 06:17 AM

I guess you either put up with it and buy a scope from them, or you don't.

 

I think it makes more sense to go by reviews, honestly. Lens design has a lot to do with color correction. You can mess up a lens with good glass or make an overachiever with cheaper glass.

 

I have a 150ED, which doesn't disclose glass type. It has some chromatic aberration, but honestly, I don't think you could make an ED doublet of 150mm and F/8 focal ratio that didn't. It doesn't have enough to be a problem to me.

It's clear that a ~$2000, 150mm F/8 ED scope is not going to use any of the expensive glasses.  

 

Where it gets more complicated is with scopes like the EvoStar 72ED.  It costs $475 and the ED glass is unknown. 

 

https://www.skywatch...apo-refractor  

 

The competition is the Astro-Tech AT-72EDii at $469. It seems to have the better focuser, the better build and you buy it knowing the objective is based on FPL-53.  

 

https://www.astronom...fpl-53-f-6.html

 

Jon


  • Joe1950, 25585 and mrsjeff like this

#9 howardcano

howardcano

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 553
  • Joined: 06 Aug 2017
  • Loc: Olathe, KS

Posted 17 September 2019 - 07:13 AM

My Esprit 100 triplet objective was originally listed somewhere (can't remember where) as FPL51.  That didn't sound quite right.  Now it's listed as FPL53 on the website.  I hope it's true!


Edited by howardcano, 17 September 2019 - 07:16 AM.


#10 RAKing

RAKing

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8562
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2007
  • Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula

Posted 17 September 2019 - 08:38 AM

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but that web site might be out of date. tongue2.gif

 

First of all, that picture is badly out of date.  It is showing the original version of the SW 120ED.  In 2018, they started shipping the "Evostar" models with the name placed on the side:

 

SW120 - 2018.sm.JPG

 

Then after the announcements here on CN and elsewhere about the glass, I received this model of the SW 100ED earlier in 2019:

 

SW 100ED 012218.JPG

 

Notice anything missing?  Like the "Schott" label. confused1.gif  I was surprised and sent it right back.

 

If anything, this scope tells me that Sky Watcher is no longer revealing their glass choices - and I don't think any of us can state for sure that they are using FPL-53 or even BK-7 in any of their Evostar models.  I am sure we will continue to see out of date web pages for a long time - and I certainly hope SW doesn't let the quality slip on these wonderful scopes.

 

I have owned a couple of these scopes and they were wonderful scopes indeed.  But I am confused and very upset that SW has decided to make us play guessing games about their scopes.  If the manufacturer has something great to show off - they will shout it out to the world.  If not, they will shut up and refuse to talk about it.  Silence can be very loud.

 

Ron

 


  • stevew, helpwanted, IMB and 1 other like this

#11 GoFish

GoFish

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1546
  • Joined: 30 Nov 2016
  • Loc: Kentucky / Colorado

Posted 17 September 2019 - 08:49 AM

I was surprised when SW decided to stop revealing glass specs in their ED refractors. When I shopped/bought a 100mm ED this year I bought one with known glass specs, not a SW. I think not revealing the glass was a blunder for ED doublets and I hope they reverse course before I can no longer resist buying a 120mm lol.gif


  • wrnchhead likes this

#12 jag767

jag767

    Kinesis Custom Machining and Refinishing

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 993
  • Joined: 20 Jun 2013
  • Loc: Massapequa, NY

Posted 17 September 2019 - 09:22 AM

Hmmm.... i assumed the site was accurate when i saw it, didn't occur to me it may be out of date.

#13 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 78960
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 17 September 2019 - 10:15 AM

I don't know about this page being out of date, it is the one that comes up when I Google Evostar 120.

 

Anybody find a newer page?  I looked at Astronomics webpage for the Evostar 120, it just says high quality ED glass.

 

Jon



#14 aa6ww

aa6ww

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2064
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2011
  • Loc: Sacramento, Calif.

Posted 17 September 2019 - 10:54 AM

Mine is one of the original ones that doesn't say Evostar and has the Schott" label. Mine was sold as a package that came with a mount. These versions had the rounded dew shields where they match up with the OTA vs the squared off ones.
I wonder if like everyone else, they are moving away from FPL-53 glass because of the shortage of this glass I see happening now.

...Ralph

Attached Thumbnails

  • SKW120ED.jpg

  • wrnchhead likes this

#15 sg6

sg6

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5910
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2010
  • Loc: Norfolk, UK.

Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:13 AM

If they have changed their approach, and it is not an out of datr reference, then I would suspect that people purchased scopes elsewhere and so they lost sales. Probably not a huge change but enough to indicate that not giving out glass details was a negative decision.



#16 Mitrovarr

Mitrovarr

    Mercury-Atlas

  • -----
  • Posts: 2752
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2004
  • Loc: Boise, Idaho

Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:24 AM

Maybe they're moving to less well known glasses and they don't want people avoiding their scopes because "it isn't fpl-53". There was some talk the 150ED might be using fpl-55...

#17 RAKing

RAKing

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8562
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2007
  • Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula

Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:26 AM

I don't know about this page being out of date, it is the one that comes up when I Google Evostar 120.

 

Anybody find a newer page?  I looked at Astronomics webpage for the Evostar 120, it just says high quality ED glass.

 

Jon

 

Jon,

 

I checked quite a few vendor web sites after I returned the SW 100ED and all of them still had the same outdated pictures of the scope -- and I would say that 99.9% percent still had the same old Sky Watcher marketing language, too.  I am glad that Astronomics has edited their verbiage to avoid any mention of specific glass.

 

I am not trying to say the vendors are at fault, but when I see a photo that I know is out of date and language that might also be out of date, I certainly have to wonder if the web site is accurate -- especially since the sample I received earlier this year had changed so much.

 

IIRC, Schott has very strict rules about how their logo can be used and I was very surprised to discover that it had disappeared from my scope.  That told me things had changed.

 

I did not test the scope; I took advantage of the 30-day "no questions asked" return policy and decided to look for a different scope.

 

Ron


  • BFaucett and IMB like this

#18 Paul Hyndman

Paul Hyndman

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1164
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2004
  • Loc: Connecticut Shoreline USA

Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:32 AM

I guess you either put up with it and buy a scope from them, or you don't.

 

I think it makes more sense to go by reviews, honestly. Lens design has a lot to do with color correction. You can mess up a lens with good glass or make an overachiever with cheaper glass.

 

I have a 150ED, which doesn't disclose glass type. It has some chromatic aberration, but honestly, I don't think you could make an ED doublet of 150mm and F/8 focal ratio that didn't. It doesn't have enough to be a problem to me.

Ditto! I cannot wrap my mind around the concept of what glass is used vs the end result?!? I am fortunate to have some very fine instruments and, after decades as a user and ATM, am not naive to the nuances of finer equipment, but am often perplexed by those who are more obsessed by minutia than results.shrug.gif


  • martinl, Astrojensen, Nippon and 2 others like this

#19 wrnchhead

wrnchhead

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1012
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2017
  • Loc: NE Kansas

Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:33 AM

Ralph that sure is a sweet looking setup!



#20 eklf

eklf

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1886
  • Joined: 12 May 2007
  • Loc: Carrboro, NC

Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:47 AM

 

 

I think it makes more sense to go by reviews, honestly. Lens design has a lot to do with color correction. You can mess up a lens with good glass or make an overachiever with cheaper glass.

 

One problem  is that it won't be known to what degree the  favorable reviews (of samples containing FPL-53 glass) are applicable to the newer samples of unknown glass type.  


  • IMB likes this

#21 Mitrovarr

Mitrovarr

    Mercury-Atlas

  • -----
  • Posts: 2752
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2004
  • Loc: Boise, Idaho

Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:52 AM

Yeah, I can see that. My guess is they didn't change anything but it would be nice if they outright said it.

#22 sanbai

sanbai

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 71
  • Joined: 18 May 2019
  • Loc: Baton Rouge, LA

Posted 17 September 2019 - 01:19 PM

I got a Evostar 80ED Pro this year in the classifieds. The original owner bought it around April. It does not have the Schott sticker, but the instructions manual I got with it states Schott BK-7 and FPL-53 ED glass for this OTA (80 mm), 100 and 120 mm.

So far I'm very happy with the quality, although I have nothing to compare other than a C8edgeHD. I only use it for visual.


Edited by Santiago Barroso, 17 September 2019 - 01:20 PM.

  • Jon Isaacs likes this

#23 Jond105

Jond105

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 4168
  • Joined: 19 Feb 2018
  • Loc: Detroit

Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:00 PM

Someone posted a link to the Skywatcher USA Evostar 120ED wwebpage.

 

https://www.skywatch...s/evostar-120ed

 

As of the Evostar 150 ED, I thought Skywatcher wasn't revealing glasses anymore.. I am seeing it listed for the Evostar 80nmm, 100mm and 120 mm as well as all the Esprit refractors. It just so happens these all use FPL-53.

 

scratchhead2.gif

 

Jon

Kevin has stated somewhere in CN, that all the old refractors will still have the details. That it started with the 150 and 72 and anything else new to ever come out, that they no longer will. 


  • Heywood likes this

#24 jag767

jag767

    Kinesis Custom Machining and Refinishing

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 993
  • Joined: 20 Jun 2013
  • Loc: Massapequa, NY

Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:09 PM

Kevin has stated somewhere in CN, that all the old refractors will still have the details. That it started with the 150 and 72 and anything else new to ever come out, that they no longer will.


I thought I read that as well, but then it's a really good question about the removal of the schott logo. Just a design change?

#25 Toddeo

Toddeo

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 999
  • Joined: 19 Jan 2012
  • Loc: Sierra Vista, AZ

Posted 17 September 2019 - 03:39 PM

Why would the vendor remove the "Schott" logo for only a design change -when the logo seems to be a huge selling point?  Something else is amiss hereconfused1.gif




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics