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Something between quality of DualED and ES82?

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#1 aatdalton

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 04:32 PM

I'm thinking of re configuring my eyepiece lineup and I'm curious if there's something between the quality of the Astronomic/Agena/BST DualED and the ES82 series. Right now I own a number of the Agenas (3.2, 5, 8) and the ES82 11mm.

 

I think I'm considering first ditching my 8 possibly for something else in that range. I like the idea of the 82 8.8mm. All primarily going to be used in my XT8i so f/5.9, 1200mm FL. 

 

I've come to realize that I like at least 60° aFov, but also really appreciate being able to see the full field stop without jamming my eye into the eyepiece. I wish the ES68 line went down past 16mm as that seems like it could be a good option. What do you think? It seems like quite a jump in price (roughly 2-3x) from the DualEDs to ES. Am I missing something in between?



#2 RadioAstronomer

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 04:38 PM

Not that I know of.. When it comes to wide field, it has always seemed to me that TV and Pentax XW are at the top, closely followed by ES and then there is the rest. 



#3 aeajr

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 04:43 PM

Based on your post it seems you are looking for something priced between the Dual ED and ES82, correct?

 

Meade Ultra Wide Angle (82 degree)

 

Very similar to ES 82 but at a lower price.  As you can see from my signature I have both ES and Meade 82.

https://www.astronom...iece_series=507

 

Meade 5000 UWA 82 degree eyepiece review
https://telescopicwa...-series-review/


Edited by aeajr, 19 September 2019 - 04:54 PM.

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#4 J.LAMBIE

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 04:47 PM

Baader Hyperions.  68* FOV. And each eyepiece with fine tuning rings, is 4 focal lengths. Excellent performers.



#5 REC

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 04:51 PM

I'm thinking of re configuring my eyepiece lineup and I'm curious if there's something between the quality of the Astronomic/Agena/BST DualED and the ES82 series. Right now I own a number of the Agenas (3.2, 5, 8) and the ES82 11mm.

 

I think I'm considering first ditching my 8 possibly for something else in that range. I like the idea of the 82 8.8mm. All primarily going to be used in my XT8i so f/5.9, 1200mm FL. 

 

I've come to realize that I like at least 60° aFov, but also really appreciate being able to see the full field stop without jamming my eye into the eyepiece. I wish the ES68 line went down past 16mm as that seems like it could be a good option. What do you think? It seems like quite a jump in price (roughly 2-3x) from the DualEDs to ES. Am I missing something in between?

Do check out the classified section for good deals on EP's. Half of the EP's I have where bought there. I have the ES 8.8mm and use it a lot in my 10" Dob.


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#6 SeattleScott

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 04:57 PM

Are the Hyperions cheaper than ES 82’s?

Look hard at the Meade HD-60 series. Getting hard to find as they seem to be discontinued now but you can get some deals on remaining stock. I just got the 25mm for $70. These didn’t sell well because the dual EDs have similar specs for $60 instead of $90. Those in the know on CN knew the HD-60s were higher quality but in the grand scheme of things, most people buying sub-$100 eyepieces aren’t checking CN reviews (or even know what CN is). The 25mm is known as the poor mans 24 Pan, and reviews seemed to consistently rate it better than the ES 24/68 (for edge distortion, but the ES of course wins in AFOV). People consistently say they can use them with glasses. Personally my wife is making me wait until my bday next week so I wasn’t able to test it out last night, but when someone says quality (and price) between Dual ED and ES 82, this is what comes to mind. Basically a high quality dual ED. A quick check shows the 9mm and 6.5mm available for $71. Of course you may find that they are not a drastically different experience than your Dual ED’s.

The Meade 8.8 is an excellent suggestion as well, especially if you want wider AFOV than 60. But it is nearly twice as expensive, pretty close to your 11mm, and has less advertised ER than the ES. Granted ES tends to slightly overstate ER, so the Meade probably has 1-2mm more eye relief I would guess. But it would be more similar to your ES 11 than different. If you can afford it, and are comfortable getting in pretty close to take advantage of that 82 AFOV, the Meade 8.8 is your best bet. But if you don’t like getting eyelash oil on your ultrawide lenses, the HD-60 gives better eye relief (in large part because of the narrower AFOV), and is very well corrected, for an excellent price.

Scott

Edited by SeattleScott, 19 September 2019 - 05:24 PM.


#7 aatdalton

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:18 PM

Based on your post it seems you are looking for something priced between the Dual ED and ES82, correct?

 

Meade Ultra Wide Angle (82 degree)

 

Very similar to ES 82 but at a lower price.  As you can see from my signature I have both ES and Meade 82.

https://www.astronom...iece_series=507

 

Meade 5000 UWA 82 degree eyepiece review
https://telescopicwa...-series-review/

Are the Meade UWA closer to the ES82s or the Celestron Luminos? A while ago I thought I was going the direction of the Luminos but then kept reading a number of reviews that they were garbage.



#8 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:25 PM

Are the Meade UWA closer to the ES82s or the Celestron Luminos? A while ago I thought I was going the direction of the Luminos but then kept reading a number of reviews that they were garbage.

 

Optically I would say close the ES eyepieces, maybe even identical, they were at one time. Astronomically, I think the ES eyepieces have the advantage.

 

Currently the ES eyepieces are on sale. 

 

https://www.eyepiece...ECES_s/1631.htm

 

Jon



#9 aeajr

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:25 PM

Did you read the review I posted?

Luminous is not in the same class.

#10 aatdalton

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:27 PM

Do check out the classified section for good deals on EP's. Half of the EP's I have where bought there. I have the ES 8.8mm and use it a lot in my 10" Dob.

Yep, I've pretty much purchased all my eyepieces here. The ES82s seem to hover around $110. DualEDs around $40-50.



#11 SeattleScott

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:29 PM

More like the ES.

Ultimately it is really about your viewing preferences. You want wide AFOV but you don’t want the short eye relief that comes with those steep viewing angles. So do you get a better quality version of your Dual ED’s? Or Meade 82’s that are cheaper than your ES, and might offer an extra mm or two of eye relief, but are basically going to be the same experience. The Hyperion is nice because it gives 68 AFOV at least, with comfortable eye relief. But it isn’t cheap either, and probably won’t be sharp to the edge of the field at F6.

Scott
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#12 aatdalton

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:32 PM

Did you read the review I posted?

Luminous is not in the same class.

Yes, that was a helpful review. Seems like the optical quality of the ES line with the bulkyness of the Luminos cloaking. 



#13 aatdalton

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:37 PM

Thanks you for the advice all. On one hand, it looks like I could wait to find some Hyperions here on CN, but it's also interesting paying the same as the ES82 line.

 

I guess I have to choose between eye relief and aFov at that price point...



#14 Bigzmey

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:45 PM

As others indicated Meade HD60s are somewhat better than DualED and have good eye relief.

 

Next step up in optical quality would be ES. There are plenty to choose from,52 deg FOV and up, but most of them have tight eye relief.

 

If you are looking for EPs with similar optical quality to ES82 but with good eye relief and at least 60 deg FOV  prepare to pay more. Buying used will be you best bet.

 

I would suggest TV Radians and Vixen LVW (or Orion rebrand)



#15 Bigzmey

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:50 PM

Thanks you for the advice all. On one hand, it looks like I could wait to find some Hyperions here on CN, but it's also interesting paying the same as the ES82 line.

 

I guess I have to choose between eye relief and aFov at that price point...

Hyperions are good EPs but optically not in the same league with ES. In terms of optical quality vs price ES are really hard to beat. If you want good eye relief on top of that you have to pay more.


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#16 aatdalton

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:53 PM

Should I assume the Orion Stratus line is about on par with the Hyperions? 



#17 SeattleScott

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 05:59 PM

Yes, extremely on par. Same eyepieces as a matter of fact.

Think of it this way:
Good eye relief $
Wide angle $
High quality $
Good eye relief with wide angle $$
Good eye relief with high quality $$
Good eye relief with wide angle and high quality $$$

Scott

Edited by SeattleScott, 19 September 2019 - 06:04 PM.

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#18 Bigzmey

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:09 PM

Discontinued Orion Lanthanum Superwide (65 deg FOV, 20mm eye relief) are the same as Vixen LVW and better than Stratus. 



#19 aatdalton

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:09 PM

Yes, extremely on par. Same eyepieces as a matter of fact.

Think of it this way:
Good eye relief $
Wide angle $
High quality $
Good eye relief with wide angle $$
Good eye relief with high quality $$
Good eye relief with wide angle and high quality $$$

Scott

And thus, I've found myself in the corner with about $$ desiring $$$ for multiple eyepieces.

 

On one hand, I'm glad used eyepieces hold their value well (after the first sale it seems) so quality increases can be incremental without loosing much investment. On the other hand, I need to pony up and pay for those eyepieces which hold their value. 



#20 Bigzmey

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:10 PM

Yes, extremely on par. Same eyepieces as a matter of fact.

Think of it this way:
Good eye relief $
Wide angle $
High quality $
Good eye relief with wide angle $$
Good eye relief with high quality $$
Good eye relief with wide angle and high quality $$$

Scott

Exactly! lol.gif



#21 Bigzmey

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:22 PM

And thus, I've found myself in the corner with about $$ desiring $$$ for multiple eyepieces.

 

On one hand, I'm glad used eyepieces hold their value well (after the first sale it seems) so quality increases can be incremental without loosing much investment. On the other hand, I need to pony up and pay for those eyepieces which hold their value. 

ES82/68 are good stepping stone. They are of good optical quality and hold resale value well. Meade UWA are the same optical quality, a bit cheaper, but fewer focal lengths available. For a few years my EP collection consisted of ES82/68 and Meade UWAs. I got them all used on CN and Astromart. One at the time. 

 

Then I started upgrading them: Sell one, add a bit more $$, buy better EP. It is not as painful  and quite doable.  5 years ago if some one told me that I would own a set of Pentax XWs I would call him crazy. But look at me know. :lol:



#22 aeajr

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:52 PM

Are the Meade UWA closer to the ES82s or the Celestron Luminos? A while ago I thought I was going the direction of the Luminos but then kept reading a number of reviews that they were garbage.

ES82 vs. Meade82 vs. Celestron 82
https://www.cloudyni...nous-82/?hl=+vs

 

This will definitely answer your question. 

 

I don't know that they are garbage, but they don't do well compared to the ES and Meade 82s. 



#23 Bigzmey

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 02:55 PM

ES82 vs. Meade82 vs. Celestron 82
https://www.cloudyni...nous-82/?hl=+vs

 

This will definitely answer your question. 

 

I don't know that they are garbage, but they don't do well compared to the ES and Meade 82s. 

Luminos are not garbage. They have better effective eye relief than Meade and ES 82s. Transmittance on faint DSOs is as good (or even slightly better). They do have a bit more light scatter and softer focus at high powers, so not as good for planets. However, on the used market they priced better than ES and Meade and if you own a CAT or frac, they are attractive option on a budget. Their field curvature gets exaggerated by  fast newts and DOBs. This is where most of bad rap comes from. 


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#24 Ronofthedead07

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 05:32 PM

The eye relief of the ES82s is tighter than the figures suggest...definitely not as good as the Dual EDs. The 1.25" ES82s are about on par with the T6 Naglers which have 12mm of eye relief.

 

I had a 23mm Luminos. It had good eye relief but crazy edge of field brightening, and the eye guard is huge and clunky (even more so than the Meade 5000 UWAs). It was okay but you'd probably do better with a 20mm Meade or an ES 24/82 for not much more.

 

You can always use the tried and true method of Barlowing a long focal length eyepiece (like an ES 68) for higher powers.


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#25 CeleNoptic

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 07:07 PM

I like the idea of the 82 8.8mm. All primarily going to be used in my XT8i so f/5.9, 1200mm FL.

The 8.8mm is an excellent eyepiece for 8" f/6 Dob. I have the 8.8mm Meade 5K UWA and the 11mm ES82, practically the same glass even though supposedly made by different manufacturers now (KUO vs JOC).   IMO, the 8.8mm is optically better than the 11mm. It's not that obvious in my f/6 Dob, but noticeable in my new SV102 frac. Of course YMMV. I never liked the 11mm ES82 because of extremely inconvenient eye relief which on paper pretends to be much longer than in the 18mm ES82 which I like ( I don't need eyeglasses when observing). So if you get the 8.8mm Meade UWA you will not only save money but also get same excellent optics AND slightly better eye relief, yes, in real life it's longer than in the 11mm ES82. Highly recommend this eyepiece.
 
P.S. BTW, there is a good deal on the 8.8mm Meade UWA on Amazon at this moment at $80.86 used and $104.80 new

Edited by CeleNoptic, 21 September 2019 - 07:23 PM.



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