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what scope for DSO's out of my list

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#1 wheelers4life

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 10:01 PM

Right now I have a 11" dob I use for observing. I have a celestron 6se, and a celestron 8" edge hd on a cgemII mount I am using for planet imaging, but seems I cannot get all the galaxies in this setup. I have a zwo asi 120mc-s and a cannon sl2 camera. I am looking for a refractor to ad to my aresenol. Scopes I have been looking at are 

Orion ED80 80mm f/7.5 Apochromatic Refractor Telescope

f  7.5

 

Sky-Watcher ProED 80mm Doublet APO Refractor Telescope

f 7.5

 and I know it may be crazy but have been looking at 

Orion 10" f/3.9 Newtonian Astrograph Reflector Telescope just because I like the views on my dob.

Which one of these scopes would be best suited for deep space objects.

 

Also on the way I have a revolution r2 on the way I think I will like it for observing, and maybe some imaging as I bought the adapter to hook up to my laptop, I also have the wifi adapter on the way so I can hook it up to my pc inside my house and view when it gets to cold out.

Thanks for any help



#2 bobzeq25

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 11:32 PM

Have you done any imaging of DSOs?

 

If not, the key question is _not_ which scope is the best for _imaging_, but what is the best for _learning imaging_.  For some time, that will be the task.

 

The best scope to learn on will be (order of importance) short, light, and fast.  In your price range either of these would be good (bargain choice and higher end choice), and there are others.

 

https://www.astronom...fpl-53-f-6.html

 

https://www.teleskop...gen-Auszug.html

 

The EAA forum can give you better advice on the r2, this forum is mostly for traditional imagers.  But I do know speed (lower F number) is important there.

 

I started with that 80mm F7.5.  It wasn't a bad choice, but, if I had it to do over, I'd have gone with something a bit shorter and faster.

 

The 10 inch wins on speed (the least important thing), loses big on focal length and weight.  It will make your life significantly more difficult, and learning traditional imaging is hard enough already.  <smile>


Edited by bobzeq25, 19 September 2019 - 11:37 PM.


#3 17.5Dob

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:08 AM

Right now I have a celestron 8" edge hd on a cgemII mount but seems I cannot get all the galaxies in this setup. I have a zwo asi 120mc-s and a cannon sl2 camera

 

The only galaxy you can't fit in your field is Andromeda.....That leaves roughly several million galaxies you CAN image.

So what's the problem ? I


Edited by 17.5Dob, 20 September 2019 - 12:11 AM.

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#4 wheelers4life

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:13 AM

I have taken some cluster images with my dlsr and 8 act. 30 second exposures stop 4.0 isolated 1600. They looked ok. M31 was just a white spot. I just havent had clear skies lately for longer exposures. My zwo does not seem to pick up any dso. I will look into these scopes. Thanks

#5 fewayne

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 02:00 PM

Sorry, I'm having a hard time figuring out what sort of exposures you're describing, through which optics. For comparison, I can get usable sub-exposures on bright DSOs with my Pentax at ISO 1600 at 30 seconds with an f/4.8 70mm Stellarvue, but 1-2 minutes will usually be better.

 

I haven't had much success with my 120MC-S as an imaging camera; now that I have a 183, if I want something at that fraction of my available image field, I just shoot with the 183 and crop it, since the 183's pixels are smaller and I can get less-noisy images off it.



#6 RedLionNJ

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 03:37 PM

I would definitely go the small (e.g. 80mm) APO route. Not sure I'd go as slow as f/7.5, though - I'd be looking for f/6 or even slightly faster with a FF/FR. A FF is likely a must-have.

 

And put it on the beefiest mount you have.

 

 

PS. Expect to be mildly disappointed with the R2. I used mine once, then gave it away.


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#7 TxStars

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 03:51 PM

You might try the reducer for your refractor.

https://www.telescop...ctor/p/5195.uts



#8 wheelers4life

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 11:04 PM

Red lion what was the disappoint in the r2. I'm using it as an eyepiece so my kids can see what's out there they are to small to reach the scope. The only thing I'm afraid of is the sensor size at 1/3 that's the same as my zwo 120ms-s which is very hard to get stuff in the chip. If I do not like it I will send it back and get the zwo 294 color

#9 wheelers4life

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 12:45 AM

Have anyone had any experience with the hyperstar. I just saw this and was thinking about getting one instead of another scope. This looks to widen my FOV and take the scope down to a f2, and 480 mm focal lenth. This to me would be like having two scopes in one. My edge hd already has the conversion kit installed from the factory. Just a little weary about stuff like this. Is this just a gimmick to get a newbi to spend that much money to find out it is all crap.



#10 Hesiod

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 04:31 AM

If are into imaging galaxies, the Hyperstar sounds a very bad idea.

If want to shot at large objects such as nebula is indeed interesting, even if not the most user-friendly setup.

Before committing into the Hyperstar thing could "wet your feet" by purchasing a second-hand 60-70mm flat-field "quad APO", which is ready out of the box; but it will be still a bad plan for galaxies



#11 wheelers4life

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 03:47 PM

I want to widen my field of view as much as I can. I'm bouncing back and forth over a orion ed80 or the hyperstar it a lot easier to remove than my whole ots and put the refractor on.

#12 Eric Seavey

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 04:18 PM

F/2 hyperstar sounds great right? Short exposures making imaging a breeze? No unfortunately that is not exactly the case.  Focus drift sensitivity and sensor tilt are just two things I can think of that make dealing with f/2 difficult.  There are no real shortcuts in astro imaging, I am sorry.

 

I started learning astro imaging on a Maksutov Newtonian MN190, thinking I would have an "all-round" scope that images everything.  I will say that if I knew what I know now, I would have gotten different scope for learning DSO imaging.  Planets are a different animal all together.  When I got my Takahashi refractor, everything seemed soooooo much easier to do; from finding objects to autoguiding, to weight, to stability in the wind, etc..  Don't get me wrong, my MN190 is my work horse and it is fantastic for DSO imaging, but at only twice the focal length of my Takahashi, it was three times harder to do anything.

 

Bob recommended a couple refractors that are very reasonably priced.  The Orion you mentioned is nice, and ideally needs a corrector for imaging.  I would not recommend the hyperstar at this point.  Use your SCT for planets and small planetary nebulae.  You do want a good mount and auto guider.  What mount are you using?



#13 Stephen Kennedy

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 05:07 PM

As 17.5 Dob said, the only galaxy you will need a wide FOV to image is M31 due to its proximity to the Milky Way.  All other galaxies are going to be smaller and most will be much smaller.  Galaxies like those in the Virgo Cluster and Coma Super Cluster will be very small and very dim.  To image all but a few galaxies you will need both a large aperture and a long focal length.  That would imply the need for a very large OTA but you can have both aperture and focal length in a fairly compact OTA with a Ritchey-Cretien reflector.  GSO males RCs in a range of sizes which are both affordable and optically very good.  I would recommend the RC8 as a minimum for galaxies with an RC10 being even better.



#14 wheelers4life

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 10:06 PM

I have a celestron cgem ii mount

#15 wheelers4life

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 01:55 AM

I guess right now I need to see what the r2 imager will do. if it does not do much I will return it and either look at the asi 183 or the 294. Not sure what I willg et yet and ad the refractor later



#16 bobzeq25

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 04:13 AM

I guess right now I need to see what the r2 imager will do. if it does not do much I will return it and either look at the asi 183 or the 294. Not sure what I willg et yet and ad the refractor later

The 294s bigger pixels are easier to handle for a beginner.  Better signal to noise ratio with the same total imaging time as a 183.



#17 Eric Seavey

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 07:56 AM

My friend won that revolution imager at an astronomy event, and has never used it.  He ended up buying a QHY163C camera and is taking awesome photos.




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